Bart wrote:
200 lbs is heavy. But not unreasonable for a
heavier boat like mine.

I asked about how it worked heeled over and
got a fuzzy look. Obviously he didn't know. I
did check online and saw a number of sailboats
using them. Including on worked hard Swan charter
boat that ran the thing up to 16 hours a day.

It is clear a combination of solar panels and perhaps
a wind generator would be worth the cost to supplement
the power made by a whispergen.

Jeff you hav a cat. The weight may not be worth it.
What do you have for solar panels on your cabintop?
What sort of dwell time do you want for cruising?

I'd like my boat to be able to stay out for 6 months or
more without refueling or having to plug in.

Man 6 mo is a long time, might as well get off the grid, you can buy
mucho solar and wind power with 12K.

Serious Bart, when you said 12 grand my ears glazed over and I will
never look at it.

If you are crusing, the a pull behind or even shaft driven charging
system may be as efficent.

Joe




The Whispergen
might be just the thing for me. While the cost seems on
the high side, the installation looks like a breeze.


Jeff wrote:

I didn't notice any mention of how well it worked under way in rough
going. I probably wouldn't want to downsize the bank. BTW, did you
notice the its heavy? I think it was 200 lbs.

At 800 watts for 1/2 gph, it's not very energy efficient.
You could do better than that with a 125 amp alternator and
your main engine just a click above idle. The quiet part is
really nice though.

Jeff wrote:
Yes, I checked it out at Newport last week. Very slick. But the Bang for
the Buck is a bit lacking - its $12K and doesn't put out enough to run a
coffeemaker. On the other hand, its a neat trickle charger, and would be a
good match for a lightweight boat that uses outboards instead of diesels
(like a catamaran).


Bart wrote:
A 5 cup DC 12 V coffee maker requires 240 watts of power.
This could easily run that.

The concept behind it is you run it longer than a Genset
and it is quite enough that it is not annoying.

Look at it like its a battery charger and a heater.
From the perspective it works better than a genset.
And you don't need as big a battery bank.


Viewed as an alternative to a bigger battery bank & bigger
charger to keep that bank up, it's a sensible concept. But
it's still *very* expensive; you could buy a small diesel
genset and built a soundproof enclosure yourself. If these
guys are actually making money, we should go into that business!

DSK

..2 gph is 1/5 gal per hour.

Even so, given the amount of energy produced
I'm still not convinced it is more efficient than a
diesel genset.

What intrigues me, is the quiet productin of power
and hot water.

BTW, I was trying to find out about the Aquanami
kinetic energy generators. They have near frictionless
solutions for inducing electric current by sliding
magnets. You may hve seen their flashlights.
I'm very curious to see what they can produce. Perhaps
enough to make up for internal resistance losses in
batteries for boat stored in the water.

DSK wrote:
At 800 watts for 1/2 gph, it's not very energy efficient.
You could do better than that with a 125 amp alternator and
your main engine just a click above idle. The quiet part is
really nice though.

Bart wrote:
.2 gph is 1/5 gal per hour.


Ah so, I mis-read the number. That's a lot better.

Even so, given the amount of energy produced
I'm still not convinced it is more efficient than a
diesel genset.


Me neither. If you're going to that level of expense &
weight & complexity, a diesel genset makes just as much
sense and should be that efficient.


What intrigues me, is the quiet productin of power
and hot water.


A good modern diesel can be pretty quiet and if you put it
inside an enclosure, the noise just isn't there any more.


BTW, I was trying to find out about the Aquanami
kinetic energy generators. They have near frictionless
solutions for inducing electric current by sliding
magnets.

Yep, the same way an electric guitar works


.... You may hve seen their flashlights.
I'm very curious to see what they can produce. Perhaps
enough to make up for internal resistance losses in
batteries for boat stored in the water.


Wouldn't they generate AC power? Still, producing energy
from waves to keep the batteries topped off would be very
nice. And underway it would generate more... every little
bit helps.

DSK

I always find it very suspicious when a manufacturer advertises the
benefits of their product based on a particular feature and then
doesn't provide a formal specification. As far as I can see WhisperGen
doesn't provide a specification for noise level.

Their brochure, however, does have a graphic that indicates that the
noise level falls between normal conversation at 60db and a
refrigerator at 50 db. So, I guess we can assume the noise level is
about 55 db(A) and is measured using standard industry techniques.

Some applicable specifications for a Honda EU3000is, for instance, a

58 dB @ rated load (2800W)
49 dB @ 1/4 load (700W)
Fuel Tank Capacity: 3.4 gallons (12.9 liters)
Run Time on one tankful: 7.2hrs @ rated load; 20hrs @ 1/4 load
Liters per hour: 1.8 @ rated load; 0.65 @ 1/4 load
Dry Weight: 134 lbs

So, it looks to me like the Honda EU3000is is actually a lot quieter
than the WhisperGen when it is operated at an equivalent wattage output
and has roughly the same noise level when operated at 3 1/2 times more
power than the WhisperGen.

Also, assuming I've done the calculations correctly, the EU3000is is
probably more fuel efficient since it only uses about 0.65 liters per
hour at 700W while the WhisperGen uses "Less than 1 litre per hour".

The Honda EU3000is, incidentally, costs about $2000.00.

http://www.whispergen.com/content/li...t_Brochure.pdf

http://www.whispergen.com/content/li...ers_Manual.pdf
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...lName=eu3000is

Jeff wrote:
These are a different beast - because they are "external combustion"
(like a house furnace) they are very efficient and can be set to run
unattended, so they claim. Also, they are extremely quiet. I stood
next to one at the show and could barely hear it running. Also, I
could hold the exhaust flew in my hand (briefly). I can see an
situation where it would fit in nicely. However, for my purposes, I
can see better uses for $12K.


Scotty wrote:
$12 k !!!! Holy ****! You could buy a dozen Honda gens
for that.

SBV


"Bart" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a chance to see a DC WhisperGen at the
Norwalk Boat Show today. I was very impressed.

The price was $12k. It provided 800 watts of power,
70 amps at 12 Volts for 1/5 gal per hour or about
.75 ltrs/hr.

It provided heat for hot water and was efficent enough
such that the exhaust was comfortable to touch.

Most impressive was the quiet sound it made--quieter
than a small window AC unit. With the sound cover
on it was difficult to hear.

Until noisy diesel gensets that are so annoying, this
unit can be set up to start when needed and was
quiet enough not to be a nuisance when running.

If agumented with solar cells, or even a wind generator,
I think the daily fuel consumption would be quite low.

So anyone considering a new genset, and/or heater, and
possibly AC for their boat, this with a good battery bank
would make a nice system.

I have a Honda EU2000i and I can say that under load it makes a lot
more noise than the Whispergen. Of course, I didn't hear the
WhispeGen at full load. At low load the Honda is rather quiet, but it
doesn't make heat, hot water, and it won't run unattended.

BTW, both of the pdf's you provide have a noise level; one says 55 dBA
at one meter, (full load implied, though not formally stated), the
other references an ISO standard which is 50 dBA at 7 meters.

a few more comments below ...
wrote:
I always find it very suspicious when a manufacturer advertises the
benefits of their product based on a particular feature and then
doesn't provide a formal specification. As far as I can see WhisperGen
doesn't provide a specification for noise level.

Their brochure, however, does have a graphic that indicates that the
noise level falls between normal conversation at 60db and a
refrigerator at 50 db. So, I guess we can assume the noise level is
about 55 db(A) and is measured using standard industry techniques.

Some applicable specifications for a Honda EU3000is, for instance, a

58 dB @ rated load (2800W)
49 dB @ 1/4 load (700W)
Fuel Tank Capacity: 3.4 gallons (12.9 liters)
Run Time on one tankful: 7.2hrs @ rated load; 20hrs @ 1/4 load
Liters per hour: 1.8 @ rated load; 0.65 @ 1/4 load
Dry Weight: 134 lbs

So, it looks to me like the Honda EU3000is is actually a lot quieter
than the WhisperGen when it is operated at an equivalent wattage output
and has roughly the same noise level when operated at 3 1/2 times more
power than the WhisperGen.

58 dba is not "roughly the same" as 55 on a logarithmic scale.


Also, assuming I've done the calculations correctly, the EU3000is is
probably more fuel efficient since it only uses about 0.65 liters per
hour at 700W while the WhisperGen uses "Less than 1 litre per hour".

Again, you have to add in the heat and hot water. It also says ".75
liters/hour at max output"


The Honda EU3000is, incidentally, costs about $2000.00.

Yup. No argument on that front. However, the Whispergen is built for
100% duty cycle, doesn't need oil or oil filters, etc. It comes with
electronic controls for monitoring temp and battery levels, etc. As I
said, this is much different from a portable genset.



http://www.whispergen.com/content/li...t_Brochure.pdf

http://www.whispergen.com/content/li...ers_Manual.pdf
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...lName=eu3000is

Jeff wrote:
These are a different beast - because they are "external combustion"
(like a house furnace) they are very efficient and can be set to run
unattended, so they claim. Also, they are extremely quiet. I stood
next to one at the show and could barely hear it running. Also, I
could hold the exhaust flew in my hand (briefly). I can see an
situation where it would fit in nicely. However, for my purposes, I
can see better uses for $12K.


Scotty wrote:
$12 k !!!! Holy ****! You could buy a dozen Honda gens
for that.

SBV


"Bart" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a chance to see a DC WhisperGen at the
Norwalk Boat Show today. I was very impressed.

The price was $12k. It provided 800 watts of power,
70 amps at 12 Volts for 1/5 gal per hour or about
.75 ltrs/hr.

It provided heat for hot water and was efficent enough
such that the exhaust was comfortable to touch.

Most impressive was the quiet sound it made--quieter
than a small window AC unit. With the sound cover
on it was difficult to hear.

Until noisy diesel gensets that are so annoying, this
unit can be set up to start when needed and was
quiet enough not to be a nuisance when running.

If agumented with solar cells, or even a wind generator,
I think the daily fuel consumption would be quite low.

So anyone considering a new genset, and/or heater, and
possibly AC for their boat, this with a good battery bank
would make a nice system.

Jeff wrote:
I have a Honda EU2000i and I can say that under load it makes a lot
more noise than the Whispergen. Of course, I didn't hear the
WhispeGen at full load. At low load the Honda is rather quiet, but it
doesn't make heat, hot water, and it won't run unattended.

BTW, both of the pdf's you provide have a noise level; one says 55 dBA
at one meter, (full load implied, though not formally stated), the
other references an ISO standard which is 50 dBA at 7 meters.

Oh! I see it now. The brochure does say "55dBA" at one meter. That is,
indeed, very quiet. Using an online dB/distance calculator, that means
it would be about 17dB less at the standard measuring distance of 7
meters. Or, in otherwords, the comparison would be 38dBA for the
Whispergen versus 49dBA for the Honda, which is a HUGE difference and
throws a whole new light on the subject.
http://www.mcsquared.com/dbframe.htm

It's seems odd that they wouldn't put the noise figure in the
specification section of their user manual. I did notice the reference
to the ISO standard. However, I wasn't sure that some sort of special
environment wasn't required to obtain that.


a few more comments below ...
wrote:
I always find it very suspicious when a manufacturer advertises the
benefits of their product based on a particular feature and then
doesn't provide a formal specification. As far as I can see WhisperGen
doesn't provide a specification for noise level.

Their brochure, however, does have a graphic that indicates that the
noise level falls between normal conversation at 60db and a
refrigerator at 50 db. So, I guess we can assume the noise level is
about 55 db(A) and is measured using standard industry techniques.

Some applicable specifications for a Honda EU3000is, for instance, a

58 dB @ rated load (2800W)
49 dB @ 1/4 load (700W)
Fuel Tank Capacity: 3.4 gallons (12.9 liters)
Run Time on one tankful: 7.2hrs @ rated load; 20hrs @ 1/4 load
Liters per hour: 1.8 @ rated load; 0.65 @ 1/4 load
Dry Weight: 134 lbs

So, it looks to me like the Honda EU3000is is actually a lot quieter
than the WhisperGen when it is operated at an equivalent wattage output
and has roughly the same noise level when operated at 3 1/2 times more
power than the WhisperGen.

58 dba is not "roughly the same" as 55 on a logarithmic scale.

It true that 58 dBA is not "roughly the same" as 55dBA, but at the time
I wasn't sure that the WhisperGen wasn't louder than 55dBA. For the
purposes of human perception, I believe the rule(s) is as follows:

"1 dB is generally the smallest difference that can be perceived by
human beings
A 3 dB difference is clearly audible for just about anyone with normal
hearing
A 10 dB difference is generally perceived as being twice or half as
loud."



Also, assuming I've done the calculations correctly, the EU3000is is
probably more fuel efficient since it only uses about 0.65 liters per
hour at 700W while the WhisperGen uses "Less than 1 litre per hour".

Again, you have to add in the heat and hot water. It also says ".75
liters/hour at max output"


The Honda EU3000is, incidentally, costs about $2000.00.

Yup. No argument on that front. However, the Whispergen is built for
100% duty cycle, doesn't need oil or oil filters, etc. It comes with
electronic controls for monitoring temp and battery levels, etc. As I
said, this is much different from a portable genset.

That's true.




http://www.whispergen.com/content/li...t_Brochure.pdf

http://www.whispergen.com/content/li...ers_Manual.pdf
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...lName=eu3000is

Jeff wrote:
These are a different beast - because they are "external combustion"
(like a house furnace) they are very efficient and can be set to run
unattended, so they claim. Also, they are extremely quiet. I stood
next to one at the show and could barely hear it running. Also, I
could hold the exhaust flew in my hand (briefly). I can see an
situation where it would fit in nicely. However, for my purposes, I
can see better uses for $12K.


Scotty wrote:
$12 k !!!! Holy ****! You could buy a dozen Honda gens
for that.

SBV


"Bart" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a chance to see a DC WhisperGen at the
Norwalk Boat Show today. I was very impressed.

The price was $12k. It provided 800 watts of power,
70 amps at 12 Volts for 1/5 gal per hour or about
.75 ltrs/hr.

It provided heat for hot water and was efficent enough
such that the exhaust was comfortable to touch.

Most impressive was the quiet sound it made--quieter
than a small window AC unit. With the sound cover
on it was difficult to hear.

Until noisy diesel gensets that are so annoying, this
unit can be set up to start when needed and was
quiet enough not to be a nuisance when running.

If agumented with solar cells, or even a wind generator,
I think the daily fuel consumption would be quite low.

So anyone considering a new genset, and/or heater, and
possibly AC for their boat, this with a good battery bank
would make a nice system.

Your suggestion to chose a Honda gasoline generator over
a diesel generator has little merit.

No sailor worth his salt would chose a gasoline generator over
the much safer diesel fueled powerplants and gensets--despite the
much higher cost of a diesel generator.

The Honda is a gasoline engine, which means one must
have a second fuel tank for it, and one must also deal
with an explosive fuel compared with a mearly flamible
fuel like diesel. Vessels designed to keep water out, do
to good a job keeping vapor in. Further the Honda generator
is not designed for use in a marine environment. They have
their place--on shore at construction job sites and vacation cabins.

The Honda is a might be suitable for a smaller sailing vessel driven
by an outboard or inboard gas engine, or perhaps in a motorboat
--but I doubt it. Such boats probably have little need for any
generator at all and could depend on the motor and a small solar
panel to charge batteries.

It is good that it's cost is lower. At the lower price you can afford
get a new one when it starts to rust and fall apart in harsh salt air.

It does not make any sense to chose a gasoline generator for a
diesel powered sailing yacht--it does not make much sense
in any circumstance.

I stand corrected.

Bart wrote:
Your suggestion to chose a Honda gasoline generator over
a diesel generator has little merit.

No sailor worth his salt would chose a gasoline generator over
the much safer diesel fueled powerplants and gensets--despite the
much higher cost of a diesel generator.

The Honda is a gasoline engine, which means one must
have a second fuel tank for it, and one must also deal
with an explosive fuel compared with a mearly flamible
fuel like diesel. Vessels designed to keep water out, do
to good a job keeping vapor in. Further the Honda generator
is not designed for use in a marine environment. They have
their place--on shore at construction job sites and vacation cabins.

The Honda is a might be suitable for a smaller sailing vessel driven
by an outboard or inboard gas engine, or perhaps in a motorboat
--but I doubt it. Such boats probably have little need for any
generator at all and could depend on the motor and a small solar
panel to charge batteries.

It is good that it's cost is lower. At the lower price you can afford
get a new one when it starts to rust and fall apart in harsh salt air.

It does not make any sense to chose a gasoline generator for a
diesel powered sailing yacht--it does not make much sense
in any circumstance.

I have to admit those Honda generators and
motors in general are pretty quiet.

My brother has one on his lawnmower and it sounds
like he is two houses away when he cuts the lawn.

wrote:
I stand corrected.