Hey,, you do know what you're talking about..except for the weather
helm bit.


Walt wrote:
Well, my sample space is rather small when it comes to cats. Mostly
Hobies of varying lengths with the odd Prindle or Nacra on rare
occasions. Every cat I've ever sailed had significant weather helm.
Teeny or no jib coupled with a giant roach usually adds up to a lot of
weather helm.


Faster boats in general have less weather helm... are you
sure you're not just thinking of helm load at speed, this
can get rather large if the rudder blades aren't raked properly.



Maybe I should have said most small beach cats have significant weather
helm? Anyway it's an accurate statement when applied to the boat in
question, the Hobie 17


Actually, it's not. The H17 is a rather well mannered cat
IMHO, except that it doesn't have a lot of reserve bouyancy
(still, has more that the old H16).


Never sailed one of them ginormous condomarans, so I can't speak for
that experience. I'm curious which cats have little or no weather helm
- care to give an example?


All the Nacras should be rather well balanced on the helm,
by which I mean that you should pretty much be able to let
go of the tiller and have the boat go straight. The Isotope
is worth mentioning. I raced Hobie 18s too for a while and
they handle pretty well. Almost any cat with
daggerboards.... the new plastic Hobies aren't bad either,
even though they have skegs

If you get a chance to skipper a decently set-up Tornado,
jump on it. Those are the best sailing cats I know of;
perhaps not quite as fast as the newest top-gun designs but
heck the Tornado is pushing 50! I haven't sailed the Intra
20 but it looks like they steer nicely & tack readily (of
course, the guys sailing them are pretty good and make it
look easy).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

Faster boats in general have less weather helm...

Huh. And all this time I thought the cause and effect worked the other
way - boats with less weather helm are faster. You learn something new
everyday. (c:

which cats have little or no weather
helm - care to give an example?


All the Nacras should be rather well balanced on the helm, by which I
mean that you should pretty much be able to let go of the tiller and
have the boat go straight. The Isotope is worth mentioning. I raced
Hobie 18s too for a while and they handle pretty well. Almost any cat
with daggerboards.... the new plastic Hobies aren't bad either, even
though they have skegs

Ok. Thanks. It's been a few years since I last sailed a H17, so maybe
I'm remembering it wrong.


If you get a chance to skipper a decently set-up Tornado, jump on it.
Those are the best sailing cats I know of; perhaps not quite as fast as
the newest top-gun designs but heck the Tornado is pushing 50!

Yeah, well, so am I. Wanna make something of it?


I haven't
sailed the Intra 20 but it looks like they steer nicely & tack readily
(of course, the guys sailing them are pretty good and make it look easy)

//Walt

Faster boats in general have less weather helm...



Walt wrote:
Huh. And all this time I thought the cause and effect worked the other
way - boats with less weather helm are faster. You learn something new
everyday. (c:


Look at it this way... two seperate things going on here.
One is the force generated by the helm, which must be
couonteracted by the helmsman and feels like the tiller
pushing against his hand(s). The other is the difference
between the angle of the rudder and the direction the boat
is turning (or when going straight). A boat's steering &
foils can be set up so that large angles don't generate much
force; or so that as the angle gets larger, the force
increases proportionally (a very nice characteristic IMHO);
some boats have both.

Exmples: a Melges 24 is too squirrely to let go of the
tiller for a second, but there is very little force
developed by the helm felt by the helmsman. It also will not
require very much (if any) angle applied to the rudder to
make it go straight ahead.

A Cape Cod catboat will have both generate great force on
the helm and require a large angle (relatively large, more
than a couple degrees) on the rudder in order to go
straight. Yet if the helm is locked in place, the helmsman
can take his hands off it... go below & make a cup of coffee...

Which of those two is faster?

Still not a great explanation but at least it doesn't leave
a bunch of assumtions hanging in the air like earlier posts.


If you get a chance to skipper a decently set-up Tornado, jump on it.
Those are the best sailing cats I know of; perhaps not quite as fast
as the newest top-gun designs but heck the Tornado is pushing 50!


Walt wrote:
Yeah, well, so am I. Wanna make something of it?


Sounds like you'd be a good match.

DSK