wrote
| You just aquired a Hobie 17. This boat does not
| have a jib--just a mains'l. The fellow who gave it
| to you compained he could not tack the boat.
| What was he likely doing wrong?
| What is the best way to tack the boat?



Hobies are hard to tack without getting irons. It's because they're very light for
their size. They stop before you know it when bow to the wind. You have to bear off
a little if your pinching and get your speed up. Then you can tack. But, don't dilly dally
around about it. You'll get in irons for sure. The best way to tack a Hobie is one way,
smartly.

Cheers,
Ellen

Walt wrote:
.... Since most cats have
signigicant weather helm, you can usually just let the tiller go slack
in your hand and the boat will round up nicely.


I disagree with this statement. Since there are so-o
freakin' many Hobie 16s made over the years, perhaps they
tilt the majority of catamarans toward the "heavy weather
helm, tack poorly" axis. But if you look at all the
different type of catamarans, especially ones designed since
the mid-1970s, fewer and fewer have very hard weather helm.


.... Once you
pass head to wind, ease it so that it doesn't fight you through the rest
of the turn.


IMHO that's the single biggest key to tacking a multi, and
it doesn't hurt when tacking a monohull. Ease the main or
drop the traveler.

DSK

It's so nice that you & Donal are so close.

PDW

Lady Pilot wrote:
wrote:
So you don't know the answer????

So you are an idiot and don't know Usenet protocol of clipping and
responding on the aft? When will you ever learn, if not now?

LP (thinking everyone who top-posts is an idiot!)



OzOne wrote:
On 18 Sep 2006 19:38:30 -0700, scribbled
thusly:

You just aquired a Hobie 17. This boat does not
have a jib--just a mains'l. The fellow who gave it
to you compained he could not tack the boat.

What was he likely doing wrong?

He was sailing it like a mono

What is the best way to tack the boat?

Like a multi!


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Peter,
Take it from a H17 owner - these are a pain to tack w/o a jib. A
couple of the people got it basically right. The key is to ease the
main as you come head to wind. The windage is high on these boats and
the mass of the craft is low so it slows down real fast when pointing
into the wind. Also the center of effort is well aft so the boat will
'weather vane' dead into the wind if you don't ease the main.

My technique was to:

1: keep the mail close hauled as you head up into the wind
2: release the main as you come through the wind. I like to 'help' the
main ease out as the boat rounds over to the new tack but don't
backwind the sail
3: fall off to a close reach
4: gradually sheet in the main. The boat will point up as you do this
(no matter what you do with the rudders) - the sail has more influence
on headding as these low boat speeds
5: as boat speed increases the rudders will bite again and if you
played it right you will now be on your desired close hauled course.

Just remember that in an H17 w/o a jib that at low boat speeds that the
main will be the more importand 'rudder'

Easy enough, right?

After 5 years perfecting my tacks on my H17 I installed a jib kit
this year. Once the challenge is gone tacking a H17 w/o a jib is just
a pain.

Enjoy learning a new style of sailing

Bill

OzOne wrote:
Walt scribbled thusly:
wrote:


You just aquired a Hobie 17.
What is the best way to tack the boat?

1. Make sure you have decent boat speed before the tack. i.e. you're not
pinching. That may mean footing off a bit if necessary

2. Easy with the tiller! You want a big wide turn, not a sharp angle. If
you stall the tiller the boat will stop. Since most cats have
signigicant weather helm, you can usually just let the tiller go slack
in your hand and the boat will round up nicely. No need to push it over.

3. Trim in the main to help the boat turn up into the wind. Once you
pass head to wind, ease it so that it doesn't fight you through the rest
of the turn.

4. Keep turning until you are on a close reach, then trim in the main
and sail off.

5. If you do get stuck in irons, center the tiller, backwind the main
(on the opposite side to where it was before you tacked) and once you
start moving backwards push the tiller *slightly* the opposite way that
you had it to tack. The boat will back around to the new tack. GOTO 4.


Hey,, you do know what you're talking about..except for the weather
helm bit.

Well, my sample space is rather small when it comes to cats. Mostly
Hobies of varying lengths with the odd Prindle or Nacra on rare
occasions. Every cat I've ever sailed had significant weather helm.
Teeny or no jib coupled with a giant roach usually adds up to a lot of
weather helm.

Maybe I should have said most small beach cats have significant weather
helm? Anyway it's an accurate statement when applied to the boat in
question, the Hobie 17

Never sailed one of them ginormous condomarans, so I can't speak for
that experience. I'm curious which cats have little or no weather helm
- care to give an example?

//Walt

Hey,, you do know what you're talking about..except for the weather
helm bit.


Walt wrote:
Well, my sample space is rather small when it comes to cats. Mostly
Hobies of varying lengths with the odd Prindle or Nacra on rare
occasions. Every cat I've ever sailed had significant weather helm.
Teeny or no jib coupled with a giant roach usually adds up to a lot of
weather helm.


Faster boats in general have less weather helm... are you
sure you're not just thinking of helm load at speed, this
can get rather large if the rudder blades aren't raked properly.



Maybe I should have said most small beach cats have significant weather
helm? Anyway it's an accurate statement when applied to the boat in
question, the Hobie 17


Actually, it's not. The H17 is a rather well mannered cat
IMHO, except that it doesn't have a lot of reserve bouyancy
(still, has more that the old H16).


Never sailed one of them ginormous condomarans, so I can't speak for
that experience. I'm curious which cats have little or no weather helm
- care to give an example?


All the Nacras should be rather well balanced on the helm,
by which I mean that you should pretty much be able to let
go of the tiller and have the boat go straight. The Isotope
is worth mentioning. I raced Hobie 18s too for a while and
they handle pretty well. Almost any cat with
daggerboards.... the new plastic Hobies aren't bad either,
even though they have skegs

If you get a chance to skipper a decently set-up Tornado,
jump on it. Those are the best sailing cats I know of;
perhaps not quite as fast as the newest top-gun designs but
heck the Tornado is pushing 50! I haven't sailed the Intra
20 but it looks like they steer nicely & tack readily (of
course, the guys sailing them are pretty good and make it
look easy).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

OzOne wrote:
Walt scribbled thusly:

It's the same principle.


Yep, you're going one way and want to get going the other way as
quickly as possible.

Heh. I guess it depends on what you mean by "quickly". Do you want to
change diriction as quickly as possible? Then slam the tiller over
hard. Do you want to change direction and be moving quickly after
you've done so? Then make a nice wide turn, taking your time to change
direction but keeping as much boat speed as possible.

Focus on keeping boat speed, not on minimizing the amount of time it
takes to turn.

///Walt

DSK wrote:

Faster boats in general have less weather helm...

Huh. And all this time I thought the cause and effect worked the other
way - boats with less weather helm are faster. You learn something new
everyday. (c:

which cats have little or no weather
helm - care to give an example?


All the Nacras should be rather well balanced on the helm, by which I
mean that you should pretty much be able to let go of the tiller and
have the boat go straight. The Isotope is worth mentioning. I raced
Hobie 18s too for a while and they handle pretty well. Almost any cat
with daggerboards.... the new plastic Hobies aren't bad either, even
though they have skegs

Ok. Thanks. It's been a few years since I last sailed a H17, so maybe
I'm remembering it wrong.


If you get a chance to skipper a decently set-up Tornado, jump on it.
Those are the best sailing cats I know of; perhaps not quite as fast as
the newest top-gun designs but heck the Tornado is pushing 50!

Yeah, well, so am I. Wanna make something of it?


I haven't
sailed the Intra 20 but it looks like they steer nicely & tack readily
(of course, the guys sailing them are pretty good and make it look easy)

//Walt

Faster boats in general have less weather helm...



Walt wrote:
Huh. And all this time I thought the cause and effect worked the other
way - boats with less weather helm are faster. You learn something new
everyday. (c:


Look at it this way... two seperate things going on here.
One is the force generated by the helm, which must be
couonteracted by the helmsman and feels like the tiller
pushing against his hand(s). The other is the difference
between the angle of the rudder and the direction the boat
is turning (or when going straight). A boat's steering &
foils can be set up so that large angles don't generate much
force; or so that as the angle gets larger, the force
increases proportionally (a very nice characteristic IMHO);
some boats have both.

Exmples: a Melges 24 is too squirrely to let go of the
tiller for a second, but there is very little force
developed by the helm felt by the helmsman. It also will not
require very much (if any) angle applied to the rudder to
make it go straight ahead.

A Cape Cod catboat will have both generate great force on
the helm and require a large angle (relatively large, more
than a couple degrees) on the rudder in order to go
straight. Yet if the helm is locked in place, the helmsman
can take his hands off it... go below & make a cup of coffee...

Which of those two is faster?

Still not a great explanation but at least it doesn't leave
a bunch of assumtions hanging in the air like earlier posts.


If you get a chance to skipper a decently set-up Tornado, jump on it.
Those are the best sailing cats I know of; perhaps not quite as fast
as the newest top-gun designs but heck the Tornado is pushing 50!


Walt wrote:
Yeah, well, so am I. Wanna make something of it?


Sounds like you'd be a good match.

DSK

Why couldn't you say that right up front?

OzOne wrote in

Yep, carve the turn, don't chuck it around.
May require a little main down and footing off just for a second to
build speed thru the tack pulling the main up as you go.
Some haul traveller up past centre in the turn to help push the bows
around.
Main down after head to wind, build and head up.

Any nonsense about heavy weather helm is just a sign of someone who
cannot tune either a rig or rudder balance by adjusting the blade
position...we are talking off beach cats..no?