My seamanship question #6
 

Capt. JG said he sailed backwards for an hour. If another sailboat was sailing directly
toward JGs transom would it be an overtaking situation? And would the other sailboat have
to give way. How would it know if JG was sailing backwards or just very slow forward.


Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #6
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
Capt. JG said he sailed backwards for an hour. If another sailboat was sailing directly
toward JGs transom would it be an overtaking situation? And would the other sailboat have
to give way. How would it know if JG was sailing backwards or just very slow forward.


Cheers,
Ellen

Overtaking is overtaking no matter what situation it is....

My seamanship question #6
 

This is too dumb to even consider. Do you want to rethink your question... I
suggest it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...
Capt. JG said he sailed backwards for an hour. If another sailboat was
sailing directly
toward JGs transom would it be an overtaking situation? And would the
other sailboat have
to give way. How would it know if JG was sailing backwards or just very
slow forward.


Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #6
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
Capt. JG said he sailed backwards for an hour. If another sailboat was sailing directly
toward JGs transom would it be an overtaking situation? And would the other sailboat have
to give way. How would it know if JG was sailing backwards or just very slow forward.


You seem to still be uncertain about how current should be considered.
In Jon's case, he was making way through the water forward, but the
current was pulling him (and your other hypothetical boat) back. From
the perspective of the two boats, this is a simple overtaking
situation - the boat moving through the water faster is overtaking
Jon. Even though its possible that they are going in opposite
directions over the bottom, this is not a head-on meeting situation.
(And, as sailboats, that rule isn't used, what rule would apply?)

The case I described was rather different: I was pointed into the wind
while holding the boom tight to the mast, making several knots
sternway and keeping fair control with the rudder. In fact I've done
this many times, and we would have races where the downwind legs were
to be sailed backwards.

This raises the question that also comes up when large ship are
maneuvering in a harbor. When you're making sternway, do the rules
get reversed? For large ships, the common practice is make passing
signals assuming your stern is now the bow, and this has been upheld
in the courts. However, this it is also "special circumstances"
because maneuverability is greatly reduced.

But, for a small sailboat doing this, how do you tell which tack
you're on?

My seamanship question #6
 

katy wrote:
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
Capt. JG said he sailed backwards for an hour. If another
sailboat was sailing directly
toward JGs transom would it be an overtaking situation? And would the
other sailboat have
to give way. How would it know if JG was sailing backwards or just
very slow forward.


Cheers,
Ellen

Overtaking is overtaking no matter what situation it is....
Otherwise it would be undertaking?

My seamanship question #6
 

That's quite elevating...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
katy wrote:
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
Capt. JG said he sailed backwards for an hour. If another sailboat
was sailing directly
toward JGs transom would it be an overtaking situation? And would the
other sailboat have
to give way. How would it know if JG was sailing backwards or just very
slow forward.


Cheers,
Ellen

Overtaking is overtaking no matter what situation it is....
Otherwise it would be undertaking?

My seamanship question #6
 

Capt. JG wrote:
That's quite elevating...

Not if there was an undertow....

My seamanship question #6
 

That's probably the highlight....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
That's quite elevating...

Not if there was an undertow....

My seamanship question #6
 

"Capt. JG" wrote
| This is too dumb to even consider. Do you want to rethink your question... I
| suggest it.


Your the one who's dumb... Not me!
I wouldn't have to rethink anything if you didn't lie. You said you sailed backwards for about an
hour. You didn't sail backwards. You sailed forward. You were just slower than the current you were
going into bow first. People on land who looked at you noticed it looked like you were going backwards.
That doesn't mean you were *sailing* backwards. You lied or misspoke so don't call me dumb....
If you were telling the truth you'd have to be actually sailing backwards. You could do this if you put
a jib on the backstay. Then the stern of your boat would go through the water first. That's why I asked
about the confusion this would cause to the colregs. Say you were sailing backwards with a jib on your
backstay at night. Then a faster sailboat coming up on your stern would see your stern light. He would
think he was overtaking you. He would think he had to give way. It would look like he was overtaking you.
It would really be a meeting situation.
So don't dis me for being confused. Blame yourself for saying you sailed backwards when you didn't
sail backwards at all. And you teach sailing? I bet your students are all confused. I'd demand my money
back if I got you for an instructor. Your rude and your arrogant and you confuse. You should clarify.
Jeff is a much better instructor. He thinks I'm dumb, too. But at least he's got patience and explains
things. And *he* doesn't lie. He instructs because he wants people to know how. You instruct so you can
gratify your big ego. I don't think you care about your students unless your different to them than you
are to me. But, I doubt it very much.....


Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #6
 

"Jeff" wrote
| You seem to still be uncertain about how current should be considered.
| In Jon's case, he was making way through the water forward, but the
| current was pulling him (and your other hypothetical boat) back.

Then why did he lie and say he sailed backwards? I believed he WAS really sailing
backwards. I thought it was some lesson on how to actually sail backwards. Please read
my answer to his usual snooty comment.

| the perspective of the two boats, this is a simple overtaking
| situation - the boat moving through the water faster is overtaking
| Jon. Even though its possible that they are going in opposite
| directions over the bottom, this is not a head-on meeting situation.
| (And, as sailboats, that rule isn't used, what rule would apply?)

Sailboats use the starboard tack boat stands on rule. Or windward gives way if both are on the same tack.
Or, port tack gives way if he can't tell what tack the other boat's on. If it's night or fog or something.
But if he really was *sailing* backwards It wouldn't be an overtaking situation. At night looking at his stern
light it would *appear* to be overtaking. I explained all this in my post to him. Read it. I don't want to repeat it.

| The case I described was rather different: I was pointed into the wind
| while holding the boom tight to the mast, making several knots
| sternway and keeping fair control with the rudder. In fact I've done
| this many times, and we would have races where the downwind legs were
| to be sailed backwards.

Yes! THAT's sailing backwards. Capt. JG lied. He was sailing forward. His boat was going
over the bottom backwards but he wasn't *sailing* backwards.

| This raises the question that also comes up when large ship are
| maneuvering in a harbor. When you're making sternway, do the rules
| get reversed?

Exactly! That's why I asked question #6. But Capt. JG would rather dis me than try to understand.
That's why I think he's a poor teacher. Good teachers can see all sides of a question.
When your making sternway in a sailboat I think your stern takes the place of the bow. But, how
could you reposition your lights at night? You couldn't. So there'd be confusion. It would look
like overtaking when it wasn't.

|For large ships, the common practice is make passing
| signals assuming your stern is now the bow, and this has been upheld
| in the courts. However, this it is also "special circumstances"
| because maneuverability is greatly reduced.

Sailboats don't make passing signals.... not under the rules.

| But, for a small sailboat doing this, how do you tell which tack
| you're on?

Exactly!

Cheers,
Ellen