My seamanship question #6
 

You explained nothing. You just ran off at the mouth.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Jeff" wrote
| You seem to still be uncertain about how current should be considered.
| In Jon's case, he was making way through the water forward, but the
| current was pulling him (and your other hypothetical boat) back.

Then why did he lie and say he sailed backwards? I believed he WAS
really sailing
backwards. I thought it was some lesson on how to actually sail backwards.
Please read
my answer to his usual snooty comment.

| the perspective of the two boats, this is a simple overtaking
| situation - the boat moving through the water faster is overtaking
| Jon. Even though its possible that they are going in opposite
| directions over the bottom, this is not a head-on meeting situation.
| (And, as sailboats, that rule isn't used, what rule would apply?)

Sailboats use the starboard tack boat stands on rule. Or windward
gives way if both are on the same tack.
Or, port tack gives way if he can't tell what tack the other boat's on.
If it's night or fog or something.
But if he really was *sailing* backwards It wouldn't be an overtaking
situation. At night looking at his stern
light it would *appear* to be overtaking. I explained all this in my post
to him. Read it. I don't want to repeat it.

| The case I described was rather different: I was pointed into the wind
| while holding the boom tight to the mast, making several knots
| sternway and keeping fair control with the rudder. In fact I've done
| this many times, and we would have races where the downwind legs were
| to be sailed backwards.

Yes! THAT's sailing backwards. Capt. JG lied. He was sailing forward.
His boat was going
over the bottom backwards but he wasn't *sailing* backwards.

| This raises the question that also comes up when large ship are
| maneuvering in a harbor. When you're making sternway, do the rules
| get reversed?

Exactly! That's why I asked question #6. But Capt. JG would rather
dis me than try to understand.
That's why I think he's a poor teacher. Good teachers can see all sides of
a question.
When your making sternway in a sailboat I think your stern takes the
place of the bow. But, how
could you reposition your lights at night? You couldn't. So there'd be
confusion. It would look
like overtaking when it wasn't.

|For large ships, the common practice is make passing
| signals assuming your stern is now the bow, and this has been upheld
| in the courts. However, this it is also "special circumstances"
| because maneuverability is greatly reduced.

Sailboats don't make passing signals.... not under the rules.

| But, for a small sailboat doing this, how do you tell which tack
| you're on?

Exactly!

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #6
 

So, you're clueless about posting also.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote
(deleted repeat.)


Sorry. sometimes they get stuck and won't send. When I send it again
then it sends twice.
I e-mailed the new server and they said they keep getting spam attacks and
other abuse which shuts
them down. They shut down twice yesterday. I guess I can't complain. At
least they're free....

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #6
 

I think I'm going to do it and tell the CG that Ellen told me it was ok.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote


Say you were sailing backwards with a jib on your
backstay at night. Then a faster sailboat coming up on
your stern would see your stern light.


besides being really dumb, that would be illegal.

Scotty

My seamanship question #6
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
Oh. (face turns red)
you should post a picture


That's easy. It's when the wind is *attacking* the
port side of the boat. The sail's on the
starboard side.

But which side is the port side when you're going
backwards?

#12, a , lll;
if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to
windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the
other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard
side, she shall keep out of the way of the other.






...


| Are you sure of that? Is this your final answer?

Yes, that's my final answer passing signals are for
motor boats only. Rule 34 says it.

Read the International version of the Rule 34 carefully
and try again.

BTW, aside from this issue, I don't think there's anything
that
prevents a sailboat from responding, especially under
34(a)(ii). If
I'm being passed by a ferry that gives me a toot, I'll
usually respond
that I agree.


How do you respond?

Scotty

My seamanship question #6
 

Scotty wrote:
But which side is the port side when you're going
backwards?

#12, a , lll;
if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to
windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the
other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard
side, she shall keep out of the way of the other.


Jeeze, people keep repeating the rules. I have a zillion copies of
the rules. The question is, when you're going backwards, does port
and starboard switch sides. Does the definition depend on the
direction of the motion, or the location of the bow?

....

BTW, aside from this issue, I don't think there's anything
that
prevents a sailboat from responding, especially under
34(a)(ii). If
I'm being passed by a ferry that gives me a toot, I'll
usually respond
that I agree.


How do you respond?

depends on what I've had to eat.

My seamanship question #6
 

"Jeff" wrote
| Its the same question as before - does the port and starboard side
| change if you're going backwards?


No. Port and starboard is fixed. It's part of the boat. That's why there's a green light on the starboard side
and a red light on the port side. You have a right hand and you have a left hand. If you walk backwards your right
hand is still your right hand and your left hand is still your left hand.
Rule 34 says in the first sentence says "a power driven vessel underway." The second paragraph says
"the whistle signals prescribed in paragraph (a). It means prescribed for power driven vessels because that's
all they talk about in the first paragraph. Nowhere does it say a sailboat has to do whistle signals. It's only
talking about power boats.

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #6
 

"Capt. JG" wrote

| Oh? That's it? So, then I must not have lied. Don't see any apology do we...
| and, don't worry, you're not qualified to be my or anyone else's student.
| You first need a brain...


A person has to have a brain to apologize. I guess you get none from me. I'd like to apologize but I can't
because I don't have a brain.
God bless you, captain. (I refuse to write what I'd really like to say - it would be un-Christian of me.)

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #6
 

"Capt. JG" wrote
| So, you're clueless about posting also.


God bless you, captain....

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #6
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Scotty wrote:
But which side is the port side when you're going
backwards?

#12, a , lll;
if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel
to
windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the
other vessel has the wind on the port or on the
starboard
side, she shall keep out of the way of the other.


Jeeze, people keep repeating the rules. I have a zillion
copies of
the rules. The question is, when you're going backwards,
does port
and starboard switch sides. Does the definition depend on
the
direction of the motion, or the location of the bow?

My thought was that it has to be the direction of motion,
otherwise it gets too confusing for the normal sailor. The
reason I copied rule lll, if you're approaching some goof
ball sailing backwards and can't figure out which tack he's
on, then ''she shall keep out of the way of the other.
''.



BTW, aside from this issue, I don't think there's
anything
that
prevents a sailboat from responding, especially under
34(a)(ii). If
I'm being passed by a ferry that gives me a toot, I'll
usually respond
that I agree.


How do you respond?

depends on what I've had to eat.

Lets say Tuna.

Scotty

My seamanship question #6
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message
reenews.ne
t...

"Jeff" wrote
| Its the same question as before - does the port and
starboard side
| change if you're going backwards?


No. Port and starboard is fixed. It's part of the
boat. That's why there's a green light on the starboard side
and a red light on the port side. You have a right hand
and you have a left hand. If you walk backwards your right
hand is still your right hand and your left hand is still
your left hand.


You've never seen those ferries that go back and forth
without turning around?

Scotty