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Why? Doug is approximately the same age. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On 3 Aug 2006 07:10:01 -0700, "Joe" wrote:

DSK wrote:

As a Navy veteran, I can tell you that infinite man hours
and oceans of red-lead primer are not enough to keep a steel
vessel from rusting away beneath your feet.

How old is Ol Ironsides?

I nominate this for funniest post for August. I realize it's only the
third of August, but I'm pretty sure nothing will top this!

CWM

Capt. JG wrote:
Why? Doug is approximately the same age. :-)

AM NOT!!

DSK

How old is Ol Ironsides?

I nominate this for funniest post for August. I realize it's only the
third of August, but I'm pretty sure nothing will top this!

Yeah, that was funny. Ol Ironsides was wood. The name came from enemy
fire bouncing off her hull with minimal damage.

RB
35s5
NY

You are out of your mind, Steel is much easier nd cheaper to repair and
can be repaired in most ports around the world.

Fiberglass can be repaired with stuff from Lowes. You don't
even need to be in port. You don't need a welding machine.
Patches or rolls of fiberglass cloth & jugs of resin are a
lot easier to stow than spare steel plates, and they are
much easier to form into the desired shape.

Frank Boettcher wrote:
Having made my living for a while as a welder (on offshore deck
sections) and having done a lot of glass work and chased a lot of core
rot, I'd say it depends on the type of repair. If I needed to repair
a holed hull, steel gets the vote for easier and more reliable.

Since it takes years of specialized study & practice to
become a welder, why would you say it's easier?

Mor reliable... depends on your perspective I guess. I've
done a lot of QA work on pressure vessel welding. Most of
the best welders I've worked with are bikers... don't know
why that is.

... I
would not trust any yard in my area to do a holed (particularly below
the water line) hull in glass.

I wouldn't either. I'd do it myself.

.... If you don't feather back the edges
properly and back lap the repair, there will be a weak spot do to the
loss of the monolithic nature of the woven roving, mat and cloth. Not
sure I would ever trust it. Not an issue with steel.

A weld can never be as strong as the original metal. A
properly done fiberglass repair can be stronger than the
original... in fact, it can be a problem if you make the
patch too stiff because that throws more stress to the other
areas of the hull.

Looks to me like you guys who are already welders have a lot
of faith in metal... that's good. OTOH it would be
interesting to see your opinion after studying a text on
composite engineering. I have done minor fiberglass work for
many years, but recently decided to learn more about it &
the best books seem to be focussed on aviation.

That said, I'd still rather have a glass boat. Did someone mention
rust as an issue?

Why no. Is rust a problem for steel boats?? Who'd a thunk
it? ;)

DSK

DSK wrote:

A weld can never be as strong as the original metal.

Wrong, a weld can.... be and is often... stronger than the original
metal

A
properly done fiberglass repair can be stronger than the
original... in fact, it can be a problem if you make the
patch too stiff because that throws more stress to the other
areas of the hull.

Looks to me like you guys who are already welders have a lot
of faith in metal... that's good. OTOH it would be
interesting to see your opinion after studying a text on
composite engineering. I have done minor fiberglass work for
many years, but recently decided to learn more about it &
the best books seem to be focussed on aviation.

Stainless steel is a result of composite engineering.

Joe

DSK

Oh wait... I was talking about Donal.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Capt. JG wrote:
Why? Doug is approximately the same age. :-)

AM NOT!!

DSK

Also, you're not sheathed in copper. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Capt. JG wrote:
Why? Doug is approximately the same age. :-)

AM NOT!!

DSK

--
"Swab Rob" wrote

Yeah, that was funny. Ol Ironsides was wood.

And now?

Wow! I haven't seen a bite like that since Jaws!

Scotty

"Joe" took the bait and ran
with......

DSK wrote:
Well, that's an issue for another discussion. Steel
boats
have their disadvantages from my point of view, too
;)

Scotty wrote:
Besides the rust, and being heavy and slow, what are
the
disadvantages of a steel boat.

Well, there's the rust. Then there's the fact that it's
not
as easy to repair as fiberglass. And it rusts.

You are out of your mind, Steel is much easier nd cheaper
to repair and
can be repaired in most ports around the world. I could
repaire a 3ft
hole in about 3-4 hrs with steel it. take weeks or months
on fragile
glass, and you have that itchy dust, expensive resins,
soft cores,
matching gel-coats and it goes on and on for the flammable
fiberglass.

It can never be as strong as a well-engineered and well
built fiberglass hull & deck, much less carbon fiber.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha......bwahahaha hahahahaha
hahahaha

The
biggest disadvantage is the rust, howewver, which once
it
starts will never stop and eats away at every part of
the
boat, especially the inaccessible crevices which are
structurally critical.

Sounds like you know nothing about maintaining a steel
boat.

Then there's the issue of galvanic corrosion, not as bad
as
aluminum but a dropped wire can eat right thru it, as
can a
penny in the bilge. The rust is also a constant problem.

Oh boy, a penny in the bilge fool, I guess you glass guys
leave stray
wires adrift in contact with your hulls allot. Guess you
yse romax and
do not run your wires in approved casings. Not smart,
better check your
zincs.

Because the galavanic corrosion, if lead ballast is used
it
must be very carefully insulated from the structural
parts
of the boat (usually done with fiberglass, which was
originally invented as electrical insulation).

Steel punch shot is the way to go on a steel boat.

Alos because
steel is so heavy, it is difficult to design a steel
boat
that can carry a high proportion of ballast. Don't
forget
about rust.

Have you seen Around the Horn by Irving Johnson? Not
enough ballest on
a sailing ship my ass...all the flying P's were steel..You
pulling
these spec's outta thin air or what?

Almost every steel boat will have slight ripples in the
metal from welding,

Well a crappy mold will make a fiberglass hull look like
crap, I've
seen such cheap FG hulls it looks like they used hatchets
to make the
molds. You need skilled labor doing both tasks.
I assure you there are more skilled welders on earth that
FG experts.

and it will look crummy or else be
filled with Bondo.

My DeVires has zero bondo, and I challenge anyone to find
a weld on the
outside of my hull or cabin

This isn't really a bad problem as long
as the putty doesn't fall off from rust under it.

As a Navy veteran, I can tell you that infinite man
hours
and oceans of red-lead primer are not enough to keep a
steel
vessel from rusting away beneath your feet.

How old is Ol Ironsides?

The first ship I
was on actually had fiberglass patches on the hull where
the
rust had eaten thru. What does that tell you?

1.)Total idiots were in command or your ship or they were
inept.
2.) Total idiots were repairing your ship or they were
inept.
3.) It was a throw away vessel on it's last leg, abused
and neglected
all its life due to neglect.

I ran several fiberglass boats in the navy, they were the
ones not able
to do any rough work. All the LCM's, LCVP's, were made of
steel, cept
some of the old Higgins were marine plywood. Fiberglass
was for the
delicate gig's, barges, and liberty boats.

Something like
"Build it out of fiberglass in the first place!"

More like.
"Dereliction of duty is a specifical offence in military
law. It
includes various elements centred around the avoidance of
any duty
which may be properly expected."

"In the US Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) it is
contained
within the regulations governing the failure to obey an
order or
regulation. It means that one willfully, through
negligence or culpable
inefficiency fails to perform one's expected duties.
Ineptitude is a
defence against the charge. The maximum penalty in the US
is a
bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of pay and six months
confinement.
Acts which are derelict may be charged under more specific
offences
such as missing movement, noncompliance with procedural
rules,
misbehaviour, malingering, self-injury with intent to
avoid service, or
straggling."

But if you're going to get shot at, a couple of steel
plates
between you & the bullets is very nice. The only thing
better would be some Kevlar or some of that new
fiberglass
tank armor.

yeah...right. Fiberglass tank armor.....

Joe

;)

DSK

Actually, it's not only made of wood. It's supported by metal... copper.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

--
"Swab Rob" wrote

Yeah, that was funny. Ol Ironsides was wood.

And now?