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Well let's just say that amazingly you says 6 OR 7 which is the same
number I've sailed.


In the Matrix, you mean?



Really, Doug. No need to defend my every post. I'm sure plenty of folks
believe your trash. Keep on motoring!
Thanks for proving what you said about 1st series cockpits and that
you've seen them...at boat shows!


RB
35s5
NY

Orta Vez
 

Joe wrote:
Nice day sailors, both to nimble, to small to cruise in comfort.

I didn't think the 121 was too small. The layout was better
for 2 couples weekending than 1 couple for long term
cruising, but it would be hard to find a boat in that size
range with comparable room & speed.

Could you explain how a boat is too nimble?


.... dont like sail drive units

I'm not crazy about them either, but they do have some
advantages.



.... Not as bad on the 36.7. That kinda money I'd pass in a heart beat.

Well, it's not xpensive for what it is.

Wish I delivered that Sabre, that was a quality day sailor.


Sabres are pretty nice boats... classy.

For that kinda money and that use of a boat I'd go with the P40.


Didn't like the Pearson 40 myself, and it's not as roomy as
the C&C 121 and nowhere near as fast. The big flush deck is
nice.

One thing I did not like about the C&C 121 was the propane
storage well, makes no sense to me to put it inboard and
away from any bulkheads. I also didn't like the aft cockpit
lockers with no bulkheading, relatively large flimsy lids...
open to the sea basically.



IMHO most of the First series (not the new 36.7) have too
small a cockpit, but they are pretty good sailers.


Yeah, big day sailors, small cruisers. Hate to get in a real storm at
sea on either one.


Depends on the equipment & crew more than the boat IMHO.

I'd take the 121 over the 36.7. better looking boat, better quality
IMO.


It's a much bigger boat. I'd agree it's better looking
although I don't think the Benny 36.7 is bad looking... it's
a Farr design after all... never heard of any of them coming
apart either. FWIW C&C's do seem better built overall than
most mass-production boats.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Orta Vez
 

DSK wrote:
Joe wrote:
Nice day sailors, both to nimble, to small to cruise in comfort.

I didn't think the 121 was too small. The layout was better
for 2 couples weekending than 1 couple for long term
cruising, but it would be hard to find a boat in that size
range with comparable room & speed.

Could you explain how a boat is too nimble?

Quirkey, jittery, both designed more for light winds than heavy winds.
Keep in mind I'm not use to a boat leaning over more than a 1/4 inch at
most when I step aboard. I like a good solid feel, a boat that minds
more than it need tending to. If you want to round bouys in a lake, or
enjoy light chop on the bay putzing around then they are good boats. I
would not even class them as coastal cruisers, and IMO a solid boat
that digs in deep makes a major difference in fighting and winning in
storms.

.... dont like sail drive units

I'm not crazy about them either, but they do have some
advantages.

What besides no stuffing box?



.... Not as bad on the 36.7. That kinda money I'd pass in a heart beat.

Well, it's not xpensive for what it is.

Wish I delivered that Sabre, that was a quality day sailor.


Sabres are pretty nice boats... classy.

For that kinda money and that use of a boat I'd go with the P40.


Didn't like the Pearson 40 myself, and it's not as roomy as
the C&C 121 and nowhere near as fast. The big flush deck is
nice.

Flush deck and large overhead, leading to more storage, also has a keel
board.

One thing I did not like about the C&C 121 was the propane
storage well, makes no sense to me to put it inboard and
away from any bulkheads. I also didn't like the aft cockpit
lockers with no bulkheading, relatively large flimsy lids...
open to the sea basically.


I did not have the time or want to go over them with a fine tooth
comb. I just delivered them with out scratching them or running
aground. That was enough for me.


IMHO most of the First series (not the new 36.7) have too
small a cockpit, but they are pretty good sailers.


Yeah, big day sailors, small cruisers. Hate to get in a real storm at
sea on either one.


Depends on the equipment & crew more than the boat IMHO.

I'd take the 121 over the 36.7. better looking boat, better quality
IMO.


It's a much bigger boat. I'd agree it's better looking
although I don't think the Benny 36.7 is bad looking... it's
a Farr design after all... never heard of any of them coming
apart either. FWIW C&C's do seem better built overall than
most mass-production boats.

yeah and they fixed the C&C smile problems.

Joe



Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Orta Vez
 

Could you explain how a boat is too nimble?

Joe wrote:
Quirkey, jittery, both designed more for light winds than heavy winds.

That's a silly assumption. I've sailed a lot of lightweight
boats in strong winds, as long as they don't break (a good
way to define 'construction quality') they do great.

I'd rather sail a 470 in 30 knot winds and 10 foot waves
than most mass-produced keel boats, and any crab crusher.

Keep in mind I'm not use to a boat leaning over more than a 1/4 inch at
most when I step aboard. I like a good solid feel, a boat that minds
more than it need tending to.

I that's partly a matter of goals... do you want a fast
responsive boat, or a home at sea complete with fireplace &
barca-lounger?

... If you want to round bouys in a lake, or
enjoy light chop on the bay putzing around then they are good boats. I
would not even class them as coastal cruisers, and IMO a solid boat
that digs in deep makes a major difference in fighting and winning in
storms.


Sorry to disagree, but a boat with effective foils & rig is
going to be better at "fighting & winning" in storm
conditions... given that the boat is equipped & handled
competently, and (of course) nothing breaks.


.... dont like sail drive units

I'm not crazy about them either, but they do have some
advantages.


What besides no stuffing box?


Less drag, more compact, quieter, better weight
distribution, no prop walk (some people consider that an
advantage), better isolation of the engine & prop from the
rest of the cabin.

Personally, given a choice between a boat with a sail-drive
and an identical boat with conventional engine, tranny, &
shaft; I'd pick the conventional one. But I wouldn't diss
the sail drive just because it's new.

Some fo the big cats have them mounted so that the drive leg
is slanted inward between the hulls for better protection.



I did not have the time or want to go over them with a fine tooth
comb. I just delivered them with out scratching them or running
aground. That was enough for me.


Souds like you did a good job. I did go over the 121 with a
fine tooth comb at a boat show, expected my wife to love it
and maybe end up buying one. Hindsight being 20/20 perhaps I
could have spent my time elsewhere ;)

DSK

Orta Vez
 

DSK wrote:
Could you explain how a boat is too nimble?

Joe wrote:
Quirkey, jittery, both designed more for light winds than heavy winds.

That's a silly assumption. I've sailed a lot of lightweight
boats in strong winds, as long as they don't break (a good
way to define 'construction quality') they do great.

Thats the rub of it...looks fragile to me

I'd rather sail a 470 in 30 knot winds and 10 foot waves
than most mass-produced keel boats, and any crab crusher.

unless it breaks:0)

Keep in mind I'm not use to a boat leaning over more than a 1/4 inch at
most when I step aboard. I like a good solid feel, a boat that minds
more than it need tending to.

I that's partly a matter of goals... do you want a fast
responsive boat, or a home at sea complete with fireplace &
barca-lounger?

With RedCloud I have both

... If you want to round bouys in a lake, or
enjoy light chop on the bay putzing around then they are good boats. I
would not even class them as coastal cruisers, and IMO a solid boat
that digs in deep makes a major difference in fighting and winning in
storms.


Sorry to disagree, but a boat with effective foils & rig is
going to be better at "fighting & winning" in storm
conditions... given that the boat is equipped & handled
competently, and (of course) nothing breaks.

Yeah that breaking problem keep appearing in bay boats that venture
offshore.


.... dont like sail drive units

I'm not crazy about them either, but they do have some
advantages.


What besides no stuffing box?


Less drag,

I don't think so if both boats use folding props, a strut is more
streamline than a lower unit.

more compact, quieter, better weight
distribution, no prop walk (some people consider that an
advantage), better isolation of the engine & prop from the
rest of the cabin.

OK, even if you repeated a few points. Still it's a big trade off, and
long term a mistake IMO

Personally, given a choice between a boat with a sail-drive
and an identical boat with conventional engine, tranny, &
shaft; I'd pick the conventional one. But I wouldn't diss
the sail drive just because it's new.

New has nothing to do with it, water intrusin in that big ass hole in
the bottom of the boat, high dollar parts, and I bet high maintance are
what turn me off...and if you smack it good you have way bigger
problems then a bent prop and shaft.

Joe




DSK

Orta Vez
 

Joe wrote
Thats the rub of it...looks fragile to me


Well, that's an issue for another discussion. Steel boats
have their disadvantages from my point of view, too ;)


I'd rather sail a 470 in 30 knot winds and 10 foot waves
than most mass-produced keel boats, and any crab crusher.


unless it breaks:0)


Never broken one of them yet.


... that's partly a matter of goals... do you want a fast
responsive boat, or a home at sea complete with fireplace &
barca-lounger?


With RedCloud I have both


I will reserve comment until after I have sailed Red Cloud.
However I will say (not intending any insult) that a person
who begins sailing by learning to handle fast tippy racing
boats will have a totally different set of perceptions than
someone who learns to sail in big heavy slow boats.

There was a long discussion on this point some years ago,
and surprisingly enough Donal, who learned to sail in
keelboats and insisted that he had missed nothing by it,
changed tack abruptly after his dinghy sailing experiences.




Yeah that breaking problem keep appearing in bay boats that venture
offshore.


Like what?

Haven't seen any boats break up lately, what gear failures &
breakages I see tend to be maintenance problems rather than
construction flaws. Not that I'm saying one should jump in a
Catalina and head for Cape Horn, but the construction issue
is overblown most of the time.




.... dont like sail drive units

Less drag,


I don't think so if both boats use folding props, a strut is more
streamline than a lower unit.

That may be your opinion, but the test tank says otherwise.


more compact, quieter, better weight

distribution, no prop walk (some people consider that an
advantage), better isolation of the engine & prop from the
rest of the cabin.


OK, even if you repeated a few points

What did I repeat?

.... Still it's a big trade off, and
long term a mistake IMO


Hey, I'm not trying to sell you one!

DSK

Orta Vez
 

Souds like you did a good job. I did go over the 121 with a
fine tooth comb at a boat show, expected my wife to love it
and maybe end up buying one.


Your bridges were burned, and now it's your turn
To cry, cry me a river
Cry me a river-er
Cry me a river
Cry me a river-er, yea yea


BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA! Priceless!!! HIS WIFE CRUSHED HIS PLANS AND
DREAMS!! THERE IT IS IN PRINT FOLKS!!!!
DOUG, YOU ARE NO MAN!!!


RB
35s5
NY

Orta Vez
 

"Capt" Rob wrote:
Your bridges were burned, and now it's your turn
To cry, cry me a river
Cry me a river-er
Cry me a river
Cry me a river-er, yea yea


BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA! Priceless!!! HIS WIFE CRUSHED HIS PLANS AND
DREAMS!! THERE IT IS IN PRINT FOLKS!!!!
DOUG, YOU ARE NO MAN!!!


Bubbles, you're nuts.

DSK

Orta Vez
 

DSK wrote:


more compact= better isolation of the engine & prop from the
rest of the cabin.

What did I repeat?

.... Still it's a big trade off, and
long term a mistake IMO


Hey, I'm not trying to sell you one!

Your goal is accomplished ;0)

Joe

DSK

Orta Vez
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Joe wrote
Thats the rub of it...looks fragile to me


Well, that's an issue for another discussion. Steel boats
have their disadvantages from my point of view, too ;)

Besides the rust, and being heavy and slow, what are the
disadvantages of a steel boat.

Scotty