On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Every season brings joy to some and tragedy to somebody else, this has
not been a good year for a number of friends & family.

This was really an accident that shows what the stakes are... at first,
many people (including me) said "why no harness?" but this news article
explains that. Thanks for posting it, Oz1. From what they said,
everything was done about as skillfully & efficiently as it could be.
The ocean will claim it's own, and take by force if necessary.

With deepest sympathy for those who have lost a loved one
Doug King

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Sorry, guys, I gotta disagree.

First and foremost, I sympathize with his family. A terrible loss for
them. I also don't fault the crew for their MOB procedures. I'm sure
they did everything possible.

However, I don't see that the interview truly explains why he wasn't
harnessed. Like Oz1 sez, downhill in high seas and 25+ knots flying the
chute in cold water. Everyone should have been harnessed before
starting their watch, not thinking "Ah, it's ok. We can go below and
get harnessed and come back on deck if/when it deteriorates." These are
experienced, professional racers. They were too casual and it cost his
family everything.

"The sea will claim its own" is not applicable here. This was his
fault, not the ocean's. "He died doing what he loved." Would have been
more fun for him and his family if he'd continued to live, doing what
he loved and taking care of those he loved.

Frank

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

''Simon Fisher on what happened:

We had all got up for a sail change, had everyone on deck.
There was 12 knots of wind. During that change, the wind
went from 12-14 knots to 25 knots quite quickly.''


IMHO, He wasn't wearing a harness because he chose not to.
His decision, right or wrong, his choice (as it should be).



Thanks for the link, Ozzy.

Scotty






"Frank" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
Sorry, guys, I gotta disagree.

First and foremost, I sympathize with his family. A
terrible loss for
them. I also don't fault the crew for their MOB
procedures. I'm sure
they did everything possible.

However, I don't see that the interview truly explains why
he wasn't
harnessed. Like Oz1 sez, downhill in high seas and 25+
knots flying the
chute in cold water. Everyone should have been harnessed
before
starting their watch, not thinking "Ah, it's ok. We can go
below and
get harnessed and come back on deck if/when it
deteriorates." These are
experienced, professional racers. They were too casual and
it cost his
family everything.

"The sea will claim its own" is not applicable here. This
was his
fault, not the ocean's. "He died doing what he loved."
Would have been
more fun for him and his family if he'd continued to live,
doing what
he loved and taking care of those he loved.

Frank

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Scotty on an corporate sponsered open ocean racer, in the top race
after the American cups race IMO.. it would be wise for all to be
required to wear a harness. These guys are Professional sailors and
should prepare in a professional way.

That being said, I seldom wear a harness and never a life jacket on
RedCloud, and never a lifejacket on my Dink. But I'm a strong swimmer
and feel a jacket or harness can entangle you and cause more harm then
it could prevent. I do have jackets on the boats. Now if I were out in
the middle of the pacific or atlantic on the bow fighting a big sail in
building weather I'd be tied to something and have a PFD.

It's a personal gamble for us to decide not to wear some safety gear,
but professionals engaged in a profession should set an example for
others to follow.

Joe

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

That being said, I seldom wear a harness and never a life jacket on
RedCloud, and never a lifejacket on my Dink.


Joe, the retard is now posting as Suzy...and signing "Joe."
Make that "Joe the totally fruited out retard!"


RB
35s5
NY

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Whats the problem Mys Terry?
Does this bother you ?

Joe has never used a sock puppet ...he has no need. NEVER!


Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Joe!

Stop posting as me, It's ****ing off bubbles!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Joe wrote:
Joe!

Stop posting as me, It's ****ing off bubbles!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Joe

Robert bought a boat and became Mys Terry and left home when I was 33
And he didn't leave much to lil thom and me
Just this old sailboat and an empty bottle of booze.
Now, I don't blame him cause he run and hid
But the meanest thing that he ever did
Was before he left, he went and named me "Sue."

Well, he must o' thought that is quite a joke
And it got a lot of laughs from a' lots of folk,
It seems I had to fight my whole life through.
Some gal would giggle and I'd get red
And some guy'd laugh and I'd bust his head,
I tell ya, life ain't easy for a anyone named "Sue."

Well, I grew up quick and I grew up mean,
My fist got hard and my wits got keen,
I'd roam from town to town to hide my shame.
But I made a vow to the moon and stars
That I'd search the honky-tonks and Sailor bars
And kill that man who gave me that awful name.

Well, it was New York City in mid-July
And I just hit town and my throat was dry,
I thought I'd stop and have myself a brew.
At an old saloon on a street of mud,
There at a table, dealing stud,
Sat the dirty, mangy dog that named me "Sue."

Well, I knew that snake was my own sweet Nutsy
From a worn-out picture that my son had,
And I knew that scar on his cheek and his evil eye.
He was fat and bent and gray and old,
And I looked at him and my blood ran cold
And I said: "My name is 'Sue!' How do you do!
Now your gonna die!!"

Well, I hit him hard right between the eyes
And he went down, but to my surprise,
He come up with a knife and cut off a piece of my ear.
But I busted a chair right across his teeth
And we crashed through the wall and into the street
Kicking and a' gouging in the mud and the blood and the beer.

I tell ya, I've fought tougher men
But I really can't remember when,
He kicked like a mule and he bit like a crocodile.
I heard him laugh and then I heard him cuss,
He went for his gun and I pulled mine first,
He stood there lookin' at me and I saw him smile.

And he said: "Suzy, this world is rough
And if a sailor's gonna make it, they gotta be tough
And I knew I wouldn't be there to help ya along.
So I give ya that name and I said goodbye
I knew you'd have to get tough or die
And it's the name that helped to make you strong."

He said: "Now you just fought one hell of a fight
And I know you hate me, and you got the right
To kill me now, and I wouldn't blame you if you do.
But ya ought to thank me, before I die,
For the gravel in ya guts and the spit in ya eye
Cause I'm the son-of-a-bitch that named you "Sue.'"

I got all choked up and I threw down my gun
And I called him Bubbles , and he called me his sue,
And I came away with a different point of view.
And I think about him, now and then,
Every time I try and every time I win,
And if I ever have a son, I think I'm gonna name him
Bill or George! Anything but Sue! I still hate that name!

Capt Suzy
35s5
NY

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

I got all choked up and I threw down my gun
And I called him Bubbles



Truly scary, folks. He's well off the deep end. He also can't use a
computer well enough to know who's who. Ah well...fine by me!

RB
35s5
NY

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

--
"Swab Rob" wrote

Joe, is now posting as Suzy...


You just figured that out today, asswipe?

BRILLIANT!


SV

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Ah well...fine by me too!

Capt Suzy and the Rugrat
Ashamed Kia Passenger
35s5
Whore for Gold
Chitty Island
NY

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Frank wrote:
Sorry, guys, I gotta disagree.

First and foremost, I sympathize with his family. A terrible loss for
them. I also don't fault the crew for their MOB procedures. I'm sure
they did everything possible.

However, I don't see that the interview truly explains why he wasn't
harnessed. Like Oz1 sez, downhill in high seas and 25+ knots flying the
chute in cold water.

Actually they weren't. The weather was relatively calm when
the incident started. The wind kicked up and while the crew
was dealing with it, they rotated thru putting on their
harnesses and Hans was the last one.


... Everyone should have been harnessed before
starting their watch, not thinking "Ah, it's ok. We can go below and
get harnessed and come back on deck if/when it deteriorates." These are
experienced, professional racers. They were too casual and it cost his
family everything.


I agree but the flip side of the coin is to be harnessed in
24/7/365 which also doesn't work.

No matter what safety procedures are followed, no matter how
rigorously, there will always be accidents. What about the
young sailor whose harness broke in the Sydney-Hobart?


"The sea will claim its own" is not applicable here. This was his
fault, not the ocean's. "He died doing what he loved." Would have been
more fun for him and his family if he'd continued to live, doing what
he loved and taking care of those he loved.


I agree again, but I don't have your faith in a perfectable
world... certainly not at sea. Could they have been more
careful? Yes, certainly. Racing sailboats around the world
is not an inherently safe endeavor, though. What happened
was a given risk... minimizable but not totally avoidable.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

OzOne wrote:
Still think that in water that cold, I'd opt to click in all the time
especially when playing a chute.


I'd like to think that I would too. But I've spent a couple
nights trying to sleep, huddled on the rail in a harness....
and hate the damn things.

Another point is that these guys had sailed almost all the
way around the world... in other words, complacent.



No matter what safety procedures are followed, no matter how
rigorously, there will always be accidents. What about the
young sailor whose harness broke in the Sydney-Hobart?



That was shown to be a faulty harness incorrectly labelled as
conforming to Aust Standards. IIRC, the stitching did not comply.


Right, but how is one to know? It's no good thinking that
one bulletproof just because one is *always* harnessed on.

That's why they're called "accidents."



OTOH, I have had a fully compliant 5 yo harness fail in very similar
circumstances but in the warm waters off the Oz coast in summer.


That sounds like it could have been a religious experience


Sometimes...it's your turn :-(


And then there's taxes

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Joe, is now posting as Suzy...



You just figured that out today, asswipe?




I think it's important to remember that your dead mother was an
asswipe, like her mother before her and you're a fag who's wife is
forced to do anal online with dogs.
It's also important to remember that you're a total failure in life who
sails a sad boat that the few friends you have told you not to buy. Oh,
and Joe is posting as Suzy and signing off as Joe. He's soooo retarded
(like your dead dad)!!!!

Seriously, Scotty. You're a loser.


RB
35s5
NY

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Time Out Rob.
After that temper tantrum you need to put on your dunce hat and go sit
in the corner.

How rude

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

Would you consider the below post as vulgar?

SBV


"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Joe, is now posting as Suzy...



You just figured that out today, asswipe?




I think it's important to remember that your dead mother
was an
asswipe, like her mother before her and you're a fag who's
wife is
forced to do anal online with dogs.
It's also important to remember that you're a total
failure in life who
sails a sad boat that the few friends you have told you
not to buy. Oh,
and Joe is posting as Suzy and signing off as Joe. He's
soooo retarded
(like your dead dad)!!!!

Seriously, Scotty. You're a loser.


RB
35s5
NY

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

Would you consider the below post as vulgar?


Mys Terry wrote:
Which one? The one where you called Bobsprit an asswipe, or the other
one?


Sticking up for your little brother again?

DSK

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

How long did you try to figure it out on your own, before
asking us?

SBV


"Mys Terry" wrote
On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:13:55 -0400, "Scotty"

wrote:

Would you consider the below post as vulgar?

SBV


Which one? The one where you called Bobsprit an asswipe,
or the other
one?





"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

oups.com..
..
Joe, is now posting as Suzy...



You just figured that out today, asswipe?




I think it's important to remember that your dead
mother
was an
asswipe, like her mother before her and you're a fag
who's
wife is
forced to do anal online with dogs.
It's also important to remember that you're a total
failure in life who
sails a sad boat that the few friends you have told you
not to buy. Oh,
and Joe is posting as Suzy and signing off as Joe. He's
soooo retarded
(like your dead dad)!!!!

Seriously, Scotty. You're a loser.


RB
35s5
NY

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

Mys Terry wrote:
I walked right past your wife in her office building not too long ago.
She's even uglier in person.


Really? Where did you park?

Considering that my wife has not been "in her office
building" for a while, we know that you're a liar as well as
a cowardly twerp.

The question is, why do you fight for Boobsie? If JAXAshby
ever returns, will you stick up for him too?

DSK

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

Mys Terry wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2006 13:06:43 -0400, DSK wrote:

Mys Terry wrote:
I walked right past your wife in her office building not too long ago.
She's even uglier in person.


Really? Where did you park?


Right across the street. I walked through a tunnel to the building.

Oh boy... Mys terry stalking another woman.
Well it least he's not raping little boys today.

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...

I think it's important to remember that your dead mother was an
asswipe, like her mother before her and you're a fag who's wife is
forced to do anal online with dogs.
It's also important to remember that you're a total failure in life who
sails a sad boat that the few friends you have told you not to buy. Oh,
and Joe is posting as Suzy and signing off as Joe. He's soooo retarded
(like your dead dad)!!!!

Seriously, Scotty. You're a loser.

Whoa, Bubbles. What precipitated that tantrum? Did Thomas load up a diaper
and you were the only one around to change it?

Max

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

The question is, why do you fight for Boobsie? If JAXAshby
ever returns, will you stick up for him too?


Ya know, Doug....You're an powerboating idiot. Scotty the dickweed
calls me a name. I respond and it's perfectly fine with you that he
took the first shot, but mean ole Bobsprit is a bad bad boy for laying
Scotty out yet again.
Terry wasn't sticking up for me; just showing with ease what a
hypocritical bunch of losers you all are.
As for Scotty...he's a big girl and he can fend for himself. Well, sort
of.


RB
35s5
NY

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

ups.com...

I think it's important to remember that your dead mother
was an
asswipe, like her mother before her and you're a fag
who's wife is
forced to do anal online with dogs.
It's also important to remember that you're a total
failure in life who
sails a sad boat that the few friends you have told you
not to buy. Oh,
and Joe is posting as Suzy and signing off as Joe. He's
soooo retarded
(like your dead dad)!!!!

Seriously, Scotty. You're a loser.

Whoa, Bubbles. What precipitated that tantrum?

Jeliousy, pure jeliousy.

SV

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

Capt. Rob**** wrote:

Terry wasn't sticking up for me;

RB
35s5
NY

Liar! You 2 (you&yourself) have packed so much fudge with each other
you could put Hersheys out of biz..

Man you screwed the pooch with that statement.

Capt. Suzy
Whore for Gold
35s5
NY

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Jeliousy, pure jeliousy.

SV



Yes, jealous of your spelling skills, Ricky Retardo.


RB
35s5
NY

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:22:49 -0400, DSK wrote:

Would you consider the below post as vulgar?


Mys Terry wrote:
Which one? The one where you called Bobsprit an asswipe, or the other
one?


Sticking up for your little brother again?

DSK

I walked right past your wife in her office building not too long ago.
She's even uglier in person.

Your grammar has improved .......

Well done!



Regards


Donal
--

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

Donal wrote:
"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:22:49 -0400, DSK wrote:

Would you consider the below post as vulgar?


Mys Terry wrote:
Which one? The one where you called Bobsprit an asswipe, or the other
one?


Sticking up for your little brother again?

DSK

I walked right past your wife in her office building not too long ago.
She's even uglier in person.

Your grammar has improved .......

Well done!



Regards


Donal
--

Your an idiot Donal.

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

SUZY wrote:
Donal wrote:
"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:22:49 -0400, DSK wrote:

Would you consider the below post as vulgar?
Mys Terry wrote:
Which one? The one where you called Bobsprit an asswipe, or the other
one?

Sticking up for your little brother again?

DSK
I walked right past your wife in her office building not too long ago.
She's even uglier in person.
Your grammar has improved .......

Well done!



Regards


Donal
--

Your an idiot Donal.

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY


No...people who use pronouns instead of verbs are idiots...

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

katy wrote:
SUZY wrote:
Donal wrote:
"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:22:49 -0400, DSK wrote:

Would you consider the below post as vulgar?
Mys Terry wrote:
Which one? The one where you called Bobsprit an asswipe, or the other
one?

Sticking up for your little brother again?

DSK
I walked right past your wife in her office building not too long ago.
She's even uglier in person.
Your grammar has improved .......

Well done!



Regards


Donal
--

Your an idiot Donal.

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY


No...people who use pronouns instead of verbs are idiots...

Damn!!!

You're and idiot Donal!

I'm going to be your spelling Nazi Katysails!

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
Which one? The one where you called Bobsprit an asswipe, or the other
one?

My personal favourite was when he referred to you as a brain dead, diaper
wearing demented idoit!

Then again, that's just my sense of humour.

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Who took over for Robert?????

Even he would comprehend that reference!

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jeliousy, pure jeliousy.

SV



Yes, jealous of your spelling skills, Ricky Retardo.


RB
35s5
NY

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

SUZY wrote:
katy wrote:
SUZY wrote:
Donal wrote:
"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:22:49 -0400, DSK wrote:

Would you consider the below post as vulgar?
Mys Terry wrote:
Which one? The one where you called Bobsprit an asswipe, or the other
one?

Sticking up for your little brother again?

DSK
I walked right past your wife in her office building not too long ago.
She's even uglier in person.
Your grammar has improved .......

Well done!



Regards


Donal
--
Your an idiot Donal.

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

No...people who use pronouns instead of verbs are idiots...

Damn!!!

You're and idiot Donal!

I'm going to be your spelling Nazi Katysails!

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Doesn't matter...I'm not a poor speller, just a poor typist..and
couldn't care less about speelcheck when addressing you...

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

katy wrote:
SUZY wrote:
katy wrote:
SUZY wrote:
Donal wrote:
"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:22:49 -0400, DSK wrote:

Would you consider the below post as vulgar?
Mys Terry wrote:
Which one? The one where you called Bobsprit an asswipe, or the other
one?

Sticking up for your little brother again?

DSK
I walked right past your wife in her office building not too long ago.
She's even uglier in person.
Your grammar has improved .......

Well done!



Regards


Donal
--
Your an idiot Donal.

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

No...people who use pronouns instead of verbs are idiots...

Damn!!!

You're and idiot Donal!

I'm going to be your spelling Nazi Katysails!

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Doesn't matter...I'm not a poor speller, just a poor typist..and
couldn't care less about speelcheck when addressing you...

Oh Yeah! I'm rubber and you are glue.
It's going to bounce off me and stick on you.

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

SUZY wrote:
katy wrote:
SUZY wrote:
katy wrote:
SUZY wrote:
Donal wrote:
"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:22:49 -0400, DSK wrote:

Would you consider the below post as vulgar?
Mys Terry wrote:
Which one? The one where you called Bobsprit an asswipe, or the other
one?

Sticking up for your little brother again?

DSK
I walked right past your wife in her office building not too long ago.
She's even uglier in person.
Your grammar has improved .......

Well done!



Regards


Donal
--
Your an idiot Donal.

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

No...people who use pronouns instead of verbs are idiots...
Damn!!!

You're and idiot Donal!

I'm going to be your spelling Nazi Katysails!

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Doesn't matter...I'm not a poor speller, just a poor typist..and
couldn't care less about speelcheck when addressing you...

Oh Yeah! I'm rubber and you are glue.
It's going to bounce off me and stick on you.

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

right...keep bouncing...only thing you're stuck on is yourself...

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

"silverback" wrote in message
news:TYqfg.5182$S61.2620@edtnps90...
Who took over for Robert?????


yeah, it's like he has balls all of a sudden. Must be Sudsy
posting.

SV

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Spelling fairy?

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

--
"Swab Rob" wrote ...

Jeliousy, pure jeliousy.

SV



Yes, jealous of your spelling skills, Ricky Retardo.


RB
35s5
NY

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

"Swab Rob" wrote
Ya know, Doug....You're an powerboating idiot. Scotty the
dickweed
calls me a name. I respond and it's perfectly fine with
you that he
took the first shot, but mean ole Bobsprit is a bad bad
boy for laying
Scotty out yet again.
Terry wasn't sticking up for me; just showing with ease
what a
hypocritical bunch of losers you all are.


ahhhhhh Boo Hoo hoo, they're picking on
me....Whaaaaaaaaaaaa whaaaaaaaaaaa whaaaaaaaaa


need a diaper change BBooby?

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

Yeah Scotty started it first!!!

He's always picking on us, the big bully!

Bbob




Capt. Rob wrote:
The question is, why do you fight for Boobsie? If JAXAshby
ever returns, will you stick up for him too?


Ya know, Doug....You're an powerboating idiot. Scotty the dickweed
calls me a name. I respond and it's perfectly fine with you that he
took the first shot, but mean ole Bobsprit is a bad bad boy for laying
Scotty out yet again.
Terry wasn't sticking up for me; just showing with ease what a
hypocritical bunch of losers you all are.
As for Scotty...he's a big girl and he can fend for himself. Well, sort
of.


RB
Mac26x
NYC

Ahoy Bob Crantz
 

Really? Where did you park?



Mys Terry wrote:
Right across the street. I walked through a tunnel to the building.


Why not stop in and say hello? Are you afraid of something?

DSK

On the Hans Horrevoets incident.
 

Frank wrote:

Hi, guys,

I don't really disagree with you. We're dissecting an event in
hindsight, which is always, by definition, perfect, unlike when we're
in media res just trying to make it through another day. I'll grant ya
that.


That is certainly true.

I switched from sailing harnesses to mountaineering harnesses in the
early 80s. I find my mountaineering harness comfortable enuf to wear
constantly, even while sleeping.


I will have to try one. It may be that the harness itself is
not the chief source of discomfort.

... Also, like rigging, jacklines, etc.,
harnesses wear out; so I replace mine about twice a decade.


Again, certainly true.



But, when push comes to shove, yeah, **** happens. Generally speaking,
however, I'd really prefer to minimize my ration of ****.


Life is like a **** sandwich. The more bread you have, the
less **** you eat.