"katy" wrote
They did a study of the Amish farmers in the southern Michigan and
northern Indiana area and found that for small farms, those under
300 acres, that Belgian horses were more efficient than tractors.
One of the factors was that a horses weight on the soil does not rip
it up like the heavy tread of a tractor.

There is some truth in this. FWIW circa 1968 I used "no-till" to grow corn for
my cattle. Plowing is for weed control, the freeze-thaw cycle naturally
prepares the soil for planting, and plowing is hideously expensive in fuel, time
and wear & tear on machinery. I'd spread rye grass seed on the snow followed by
manure. The manure sank through the snow carrying the seed with it. Come early
spring the rye grew knee high and kept the soil shaded and moist. Then I
poisoned the rye with a non-persistent herbicide and it lodged up into a mat
that allowed me to drive a flotation tired tractor over the very wet soft soil
pulling a light planter. After harvesting the corn in the fall, I'd disk the
stalks into the soil but never plow. Had the same or better yield/acre as
conventional plowing. I'd have loved to farm like the Amish but it would be
impossible to produce enough crops to feed our current non-farming population
today - let alone grow enough corn to make enough ethanol - using horse and
buggy technology. We'd have to force modern Americans off welfare and make them
(gasp) work like illegal aliens just to provide the manpower. Never happen!!

Vito wrote:
"katy" wrote
They did a study of the Amish farmers in the southern Michigan and
northern Indiana area and found that for small farms, those under
300 acres, that Belgian horses were more efficient than tractors.
One of the factors was that a horses weight on the soil does not rip
it up like the heavy tread of a tractor.

There is some truth in this. FWIW circa 1968 I used "no-till" to grow corn for
my cattle. Plowing is for weed control, the freeze-thaw cycle naturally
prepares the soil for planting, and plowing is hideously expensive in fuel, time
and wear & tear on machinery. I'd spread rye grass seed on the snow followed by
manure. The manure sank through the snow carrying the seed with it. Come early
spring the rye grew knee high and kept the soil shaded and moist. Then I
poisoned the rye with a non-persistent herbicide and it lodged up into a mat
that allowed me to drive a flotation tired tractor over the very wet soft soil
pulling a light planter. After harvesting the corn in the fall, I'd disk the
stalks into the soil but never plow. Had the same or better yield/acre as
conventional plowing. I'd have loved to farm like the Amish but it would be
impossible to produce enough crops to feed our current non-farming population
today - let alone grow enough corn to make enough ethanol - using horse and
buggy technology. We'd have to force modern Americans off welfare and make them
(gasp) work like illegal aliens just to provide the manpower. Never happen!!


See? There are answers to this...ut's just that no one's willing to
implement them.
Those on welfare should have to go to a specific location every day
where work (farm or otherwise) is available. They would be provided
a chit for the days work to take back to the welfare office. if
they refused work (they would be permitted to allow for infirmities
and redirected into something they could do) their welfare is
decreased. Another good that would come out of this is that all
corn production (except for sweet corn for the table) would be
diverted to fuel. Corn meal is not a healthy whole grain and
Americans eat way too much of it. Corn syrup is added into most
processed foods as a sweetener. Divert to sugar beet for sweeteners
on a commercial basis. Sugar beet grows where corn won't and the
pulp is usable for feed lot filler.

"katy" wrote
Those on welfare should have to go to a specific location every day
where work (farm or otherwise) is available. They would be provided
a chit for the days work to take back to the welfare office. if
they refused work (they would be permitted to allow for infirmities
and redirected into something they could do) their welfare is
decreased.

RR tried something like this when governor of California. Those facing work got
sympathetic shrinks to declare laziness a debilitating mental disease then
judges to agree. Thus if one is too lazy to work, the government can't make him.

Vito wrote:

"katy" wrote
Those on welfare should have to go to a specific location every day
where work (farm or otherwise) is available. They would be provided
a chit for the days work to take back to the welfare office. if
they refused work (they would be permitted to allow for infirmities
and redirected into something they could do) their welfare is
decreased.

RR tried something like this when governor of California. Those facing work got
sympathetic shrinks to declare laziness a debilitating mental disease then
judges to agree. Thus if one is too lazy to work, the government can't make him.

That and the sytem is open to explotation the other way around, why pay
prevailing wage for manual labour whe you can get throught the local
welfare office at very nearly slave wages?

Cheers
Marty

Martin Baxter wrote:
Vito wrote:
"katy" wrote
Those on welfare should have to go to a specific location every day
where work (farm or otherwise) is available. They would be provided
a chit for the days work to take back to the welfare office. if
they refused work (they would be permitted to allow for infirmities
and redirected into something they could do) their welfare is
decreased.
RR tried something like this when governor of California. Those facing work got
sympathetic shrinks to declare laziness a debilitating mental disease then
judges to agree. Thus if one is too lazy to work, the government can't make him.

That and the sytem is open to explotation the other way around, why pay
prevailing wage for manual labour whe you can get throught the local
welfare office at very nearly slave wages?

Cheers
Marty

That's the point, Martin...you can't get laborers at the prevailing
wage. A vast majority of those on welfare have bought into what the
education system has piped into their minds in the last 20
years...there own personal sense of self-worth dictates that they
will not get their hands dirty and that they, too should receive
huge wages for menial work Or worse, that they are above menial
work. They forget, or were never taught, that many people who made
it in the US system, started out as menial laborers. There
self-worth does not come from a hard work ethic or from seeing the
fruits of their labors, but from absorbing propaganda. I have always
been a great proponent of a national system, sort of like what the
Israeli's have, where a person, on finishing high school, either
goes into the armed services or joins a group like VISTA...Soputh
Korea does this. You receive a university education by fulfilling
either military or domestic service. My daughter-on-law served hers
during the Asian games and the Olympics as an interpretor.

Marty,

USA minium wage is hardly SLAVE WAGES. We have Millions of illegals
jumping our borders to get those wages. It isn't forced labor by any
means.

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