JL,

BIG OIL used the Hurricane to up gasoline prices. I guess now is about
the right time to turn Oil's phony question on them; "How much should a
Gal. of Ethanol Cost?" Bootleggers made a profit selling for between $5
& $6 a gallon and that was using hidden stills, special Hotrod
transporters, and fear of Jail time. I'm sure with legal operation and
even tax breaks, it can be very competitive with todays Gasoline Prices.


Gas prices

Group: alt.sailing.asa Date: Sat, Apr 29, 2006, 12:47am (PDT+7) From:
(jlrogers)
Yeah, until you have a crop failure, like they did acouple of years
back. Also, ethanol can't be transported by pipeline. You'll spend more
energy deliverying it than its worth.

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

JL,

Pipelines are problem but not as much a problem as Crude by Tankers, all
the way from the Middle East. The raw material for Ethanol can be
transported by open bed Trucks (Even Horse and wagon) to the
fermentation stations. They can be harvested with out high pressure
wells and transported without fear of explosion and a spill of a load of
Corn doesn't damage the environment like a tank truck rollover, or a
ship running aground or a pipe line braking. Trade off seems to favor
Ethanol. Don't you think?

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

"Thom Stewart" wrote
Pipelines are problem but not as much a problem as Crude by Tankers, all
the way from the Middle East. The raw material for Ethanol can be
transported by open bed Trucks (Even Horse and wagon) to the
fermentation stations. They can be harvested with out high pressure
wells and transported without fear of explosion and a spill of a load of
Corn doesn't damage the environment like a tank truck rollover, or a
ship running aground or a pipe line braking. Trade off seems to favor
Ethanol. Don't you think?

Transport is only part of the picture. Growing and transporting enough corn to
make a gallon of ethanol, then actually making it, consumes mucho energy
itself - some claim it takes more energy to produce than we can get back out of
it. I don't know if that's true but I do know that a tractor plowing a field,
or even just disking and planting "no-till" corn uses more fuel than most folk
can imagine. The exact figures escape me but maybe one of y'all know. Also,
farming is about as dangerous as mining.

Vito wrote:
"Thom Stewart" wrote
Pipelines are problem but not as much a problem as Crude by Tankers, all
the way from the Middle East. The raw material for Ethanol can be
transported by open bed Trucks (Even Horse and wagon) to the
fermentation stations. They can be harvested with out high pressure
wells and transported without fear of explosion and a spill of a load of
Corn doesn't damage the environment like a tank truck rollover, or a
ship running aground or a pipe line braking. Trade off seems to favor
Ethanol. Don't you think?

Transport is only part of the picture. Growing and transporting enough corn to
make a gallon of ethanol, then actually making it, consumes mucho energy
itself - some claim it takes more energy to produce than we can get back out of
it. I don't know if that's true but I do know that a tractor plowing a field,
or even just disking and planting "no-till" corn uses more fuel than most folk
can imagine. The exact figures escape me but maybe one of y'all know. Also,
farming is about as dangerous as mining.


So, Mr. Doom and Gloom...there's no answer in fossil fuel...and
there's no answer in vegetable fuel. Are you going to be the first
to offer yourself up in sacrifice or do you just advocate sitting
around watching as humanity collapses? Nah...don't answer that. I
already know your answer.

"Thom Stewart" wrote

Transport is only part of the picture. Growing and transporting enough
corn to
make a gallon of ethanol, then actually making it, consumes mucho energy
itself - some claim it takes more energy to produce than we can get back
out of
it.

Who could that be. Could it be . . . oh, I don't know . . . maybe . . . BIG
OIL??!!!

I don't know if that's true but I do know that a tractor plowing a field,
or even just disking and planting "no-till" corn uses more fuel than most
folk
can imagine. The exact figures escape me but maybe one of y'all know.
Also,
farming is about as dangerous as mining.

Well, maybe we should be harnessing cow farts in order to offset the expense
and grave danger of raising corn.

Katy wrote:

So, Mr. Doom and Gloom...there's no answer in fossil fuel...and there's no
answer in vegetable fuel. Are you going to be the first to offer yourself
up in sacrifice or do you just advocate sitting around watching as
humanity collapses? Nah...don't answer that. I already know your answer.

Thom, the retired oil refinery worker, might be a bit biased, Katy. Then
again, he's maybe just counting on the fact that he won't be around to see
the disaster that dwindling petroleum reserves will eventually be for our
ancestors.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
"Thom Stewart" wrote

Transport is only part of the picture. Growing and transporting enough
corn to
make a gallon of ethanol, then actually making it, consumes mucho energy
itself - some claim it takes more energy to produce than we can get back
out of
it.

Who could that be. Could it be . . . oh, I don't know . . . maybe . . . BIG
OIL??!!!

I don't know if that's true but I do know that a tractor plowing a field,
or even just disking and planting "no-till" corn uses more fuel than most
folk
can imagine. The exact figures escape me but maybe one of y'all know.
Also,
farming is about as dangerous as mining.

Well, maybe we should be harnessing cow farts in order to offset the expense
and grave danger of raising corn.

Katy wrote:

So, Mr. Doom and Gloom...there's no answer in fossil fuel...and there's no
answer in vegetable fuel. Are you going to be the first to offer yourself
up in sacrifice or do you just advocate sitting around watching as
humanity collapses? Nah...don't answer that. I already know your answer.

Thom, the retired oil refinery worker, might be a bit biased, Katy. Then
again, he's maybe just counting on the fact that he won't be around to see
the disaster that dwindling petroleum reserves will eventually be for our
ancestors.

Max


I was responding to Vito, not Thom.

"Maxprop" wrote

Transport is only part of the picture. Growing and transporting enough
corn to
make a gallon of ethanol, then actually making it, consumes mucho energy
itself - some claim it takes more energy to produce than we can get back
out of it.

Who could that be. Could it be . . . . BIG OIL??!!!

That doesn't make it false. Do your own math. Google up how much fuel it takes
to grow a bushel of corn then ferment it then distill off the ethanol and how
many gallons we get per bushel.

Well, maybe we should be harnessing cow farts in order to offset the expense
and grave danger of raising corn.

And after doing that look up the accident & death rate from farming.

Thom, the retired oil refinery worker, might be a bit biased, Katy. Then
again, he's maybe just counting on the fact that he won't be around to see
the disaster that dwindling petroleum reserves will eventually be for our
ancestors.

That'll be a minor annoyance compared to what'll happen if our population keeps
growing.

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Thom Stewart" wrote
Pipelines are problem but not as much a problem as Crude
by Tankers, all
the way from the Middle East. The raw material for
Ethanol can be
transported by open bed Trucks (Even Horse and wagon) to
the
fermentation stations. They can be harvested with out
high pressure
wells and transported without fear of explosion and a
spill of a load of
Corn doesn't damage the environment like a tank truck
rollover, or a
ship running aground or a pipe line braking. Trade off
seems to favor
Ethanol. Don't you think?

Transport is only part of the picture. Growing and
transporting enough corn to
make a gallon of ethanol, then actually making it,
consumes mucho energy
itself - some claim it takes more energy to produce than
we can get back out of
it. I don't know if that's true but I do know that a
tractor plowing a field,
or even just disking and planting "no-till" corn uses more
fuel than most folk
can imagine. The exact figures escape me but maybe one of
y'all know. Also,
farming is about as dangerous as mining.


They use pull horses around here. Only pollution from them
is recycled into fertilizer.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_

Scotty wrote:
.

They use pull horses around here. Only pollution from them
is recycled into fertilizer.

The tree huggers won't leave them in peace either, they claim that
"bio-gasses", (animal farts for the normal folks) are a major source of
green house gasses. Some even say that the dinosaurs killed themselves
of in a bath of intense UV radiation caused by an ozone layer depleted
by uncontrolled reptilian flatulence! Probably smelled about as bad as
the interior of Boobie's wife's Benny after he's spent a night onboard
with the hatches battened down with the AC running while safely tied to
the dock!

Cheers
Marty

Martin Baxter wrote:
Scotty wrote:
.

They use pull horses around here. Only pollution from them
is recycled into fertilizer.

The tree huggers won't leave them in peace either, they claim that
"bio-gasses", (animal farts for the normal folks) are a major source of
green house gasses. Some even say that the dinosaurs killed themselves
of in a bath of intense UV radiation caused by an ozone layer depleted
by uncontrolled reptilian flatulence! Probably smelled about as bad as
the interior of Boobie's wife's Benny after he's spent a night onboard
with the hatches battened down with the AC running while safely tied to
the dock!

Cheers
Marty
Ya know, I can't help but wonder that if the "treehuggers" (not
those who are genuinely concerned and looking for reasonable
answers) don't martyr themselves for the cause, do themselves in,
and release the world from their misery.