"katy" wrote in message
...
Vito wrote:
"katy" wrote
heh...Vito and me on the same boat...would be a matter
of who would
kill who first....

Naw, being old I have strong opinions but always seek
new information with which
to modify or reinforce them. Thats why I like the
discussions here. Didn't you
say you read/spoke Hebrew?


No, I never made that claim. A bit of Spanish is all I
lay claim
too..and that's just tourist Spanish.

Spanglish?

Thats right Scotty. I like the AR-15 myself. But I do have a stainless
steel snake charmer to.

http://practicalpage.com/Shotguns/snak1a.jpg

Joe

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

My first plan would also be to get out of town. But remember I
said a
SHTF condition. Shotgun would be to unwieldy inside of a house.
Cut
the barrel off and that's a problem with the law. AR15 packs
plenty
of
punch if you are using 65 or 75 gr ammo. Normal is 45 or 55 gr.
Also
most AR15s shoot 5.56 which is harder hitting than 223. There's
enough
dead Iraqs to prove the AR is a good enough weapon.

Do everyone a favour. DO NOT own a gun until you learn something
(more)
about them.

1. Using a rifle inside a house is plain stupid. A short barrelled
shotgun is far more useful.

2. Using heavy FMJ bullets is also stupid. Use hollowpoints or soft
nose rounds. The object is to transfer the kinetic energy into the
target, not the wall, next house, etc etc.

3. There is NO DIFFERENCE between 5.56 NATO and .223 except the
labels
on the boxes. Go look up the SAAMI ammo spec if you don't believe
me.

I could dig out my reloading manuals and quote loads, bullet weights
etc but frankly, I don't give a damn. I do thank my situation tho,
which is not having you for a next door neighbour.

PDW

Don't forget bullet stability as a function twist rate and bullet
weight
for
the 5.56.

Yeah but not real relevant at sub-50m ranges AFAIK. And Vito's right,
if you start popping bad guys further away than that, it's going to be
real difficult explaining it to the cops as self defence.

PDW

I wouldn't use a .223 for close in shooting people in a populated
setting.
I'd use a 38 or 9 mm.

Hey, try telling Ringmaster. I've given up. Personally I'd use a 44Mag
carbine like my old Ruger. Not a military type weapon so no 'evil'
connotations, 18" bbl, light, handy & powerful. If I needed more than 5
rounds, it'd be a firefight against too many people and I'd lose
anyway, so wouldn't start.

One of the side effects of smashing my left elbow so badly is I can't
use a Weaver stance any more. Pretty much out of pistols these days,
tho I may take up black powder silhouette just to keep my eye in.
Always did like those Ruger Old Army's in s/s.

PDW

I have the "10/44". I like Rugers, the carbine isn't as easy to conceal in
the house as a pistol. It's a good pig gun.

Amen!

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

.... which makes it longer than an 18" barrelled shotgun. Good
choice.

How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

I dunno. Is it a mantra you chant? Anyway, while no doubt you're
incorrect, keep chanting.

Try a Google search on 'shotgun minimum legal barrel length USA' and
you'll find that the min legal length for a shotgun is 18", as I stated
above. Nowhere did I mention anything about a sawed off shotgun, and
either you know it and are trying to obfuscate, or you actually don't
know that an 18" barrelled gun is legal. So you've learnt something new
- again.

FWIW, in fact it is NOT illegal to own a sawed off shotgun, *unless*
you reduce the bbl length to less than 18". So you're wrong when you
make general statements, too.


Yep, just what you need for home defence, optics.....

I'm not talking 9x scopes here. Red dot or holigraphic optics are
perfect for defense, home or otherwise, since you shoot with both eyes
open. Have you seen those.

I've seen them, used them. A laser dot sight isn't generally referred
to as an optical sight. They have pluses & minuses but I don't think
one would be a bad thing to have on a gun used at 'point & shoot'
ranges, personally.

The military uses them every day.

Yeah and they *train* with them regularly too. How much range time are
you going to put in doing laser dot 'point & shoot'?

Your
trying to come off as an expert here but you continue to look
uneducated on the topic.

OK, fine. You've demonstrated the same level of knowledge of guns as
Bobsprit does about router bits. I'm happy to ignore you.

PDW

Thompson sold a 14" .410 barrel for the Contender pistol.

Yeah but it wasn't a smoothbore was it? Never paid a lot of attention
to those so I dunno, but I'd have thought it'd fall under the
restricted class if it wasn't rifled.

PDW

It may have been rifled.

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...


How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

Sawed-off? Nothing sawed-off about a shotgun with a federally-legal 18"
barrel.

I don't think he knows that, Max, and he doesn't seem real interested
in learning despite my saying it, so I quit.

Far as I can see, he's bought a new boy toy. Nothing wrong with that
but it's like Bobsprit talking about using an angle grinder to polish
gelcoat, or his famous powered router bits. Just because you can or
might own something doesn't make it a good tool for a particular job.

He's got a rifle that's at least as long as a legal shotgun, fires ammo
with way excessive range and penetration for an urban/suburban
situation, and won't be as effective at sub 50m ranges, let alone sub
10m ranges, as the shotgun. But hey, it has a big magazine, a folding
stock and a flash hider. Probably came in way cool black, too. With a
laser dot sight, no less, just like the military use.

PDW

The problem is he has only one gun. You need at least a dozen guns, just to
get started, for covering the basic scenarios. You need at least one gun for
each car, two for every boat over 25 feet, one for every room in the house,
one for each family member and then a working stock of firearms for everyday
use. Of course backups are needed too and don't forget lots and lots of
ammunition.

I sure Ringmaster has proudly taken his first step into excersizing his
First Amendment Rights and, with our prodigious coaching, will flourish and
grow! Happiness is a warm gun!

Glory!

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...
I've seen them, used them. A laser dot sight isn't generally
referred
to as an optical sight. They have pluses & minuses but I don't think
one would be a bad thing to have on a gun used at 'point & shoot'
ranges, personally.

LOL..................... Dude............. Nobody is talking laser dot
sights. A red dot sight or a holigraphic sight are not laser sights
and are most certainly considered optics. Do you even know what a red
dot sight is? Once again you look like you are out of your area of
knowledge.

Aimpoint was the original red dot sight. I have one on my Hammerli target
pistol. And yes, it is an optical sight.

Max

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
ups.com...
I believe you've hit on my problem. I don't have the Dolby 5.1, so
I'm
betting I'm getting everything compressed into two channels.
Thanx..

Max, even when watching a HD program and listening to the sound thru
your TVs stereo speakers the sound should appear normal. The sound
wouldn't be compressed you would be getting a normal stereo
presentation. Every Dolby 5.1 soundtrack also includes a stereo
soundtrack to allow for backwards compatability. I would check your
TVs menu under the section where sound adjustments can be made and see
if you can choose between something like "normal" "stereo" "surround"
etc. If you can, try choosing "normal" or "stereo" Sometimes those
other fake matrix surround selections can sound quite weird.

It's on stereo now, but I'll give mono a try. Anything would be better than
what we have now.

Max

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
. ..

I wouldn't use a .223 for close in shooting people in a populated setting.
I'd use a 38 or 9 mm.

Both are great cartridges for urban defense. Neither had enough penetration
to go through walls (windows are another story), and both will stop
assailants provided you shoot them frequently enough, or until they go down.

I've always figured I'd be in court someday, with the dialog going something
like this:

Prosecutor: "Sir, the forensics report says that you shot the man 12 times.
Why did you shoot him a dozen times?"

Me: "With a full magazine and one in the chamber, sir, that's all the gun
holds."

Max

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

.... which makes it longer than an 18" barrelled shotgun. Good
choice.

How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

I dunno. Is it a mantra you chant? Anyway, while no doubt you're
incorrect, keep chanting.

Try a Google search on 'shotgun minimum legal barrel length USA' and
you'll find that the min legal length for a shotgun is 18", as I stated
above. Nowhere did I mention anything about a sawed off shotgun, and
either you know it and are trying to obfuscate, or you actually don't
know that an 18" barrelled gun is legal. So you've learnt something new
- again.

FWIW, in fact it is NOT illegal to own a sawed off shotgun, *unless*
you reduce the bbl length to less than 18". So you're wrong when you
make general statements, too.


Yep, just what you need for home defence, optics.....

I'm not talking 9x scopes here. Red dot or holigraphic optics are
perfect for defense, home or otherwise, since you shoot with both eyes
open. Have you seen those.

I've seen them, used them. A laser dot sight isn't generally referred
to as an optical sight. They have pluses & minuses but I don't think
one would be a bad thing to have on a gun used at 'point & shoot'
ranges, personally.

The military uses them every day.

Yeah and they *train* with them regularly too. How much range time are
you going to put in doing laser dot 'point & shoot'?

Your
trying to come off as an expert here but you continue to look
uneducated on the topic.

OK, fine. You've demonstrated the same level of knowledge of guns as
Bobsprit does about router bits. I'm happy to ignore you.

PDW

Thompson sold a 14" .410 barrel for the Contender pistol.

Yeah but it wasn't a smoothbore was it? Never paid a lot of attention
to those so I dunno, but I'd have thought it'd fall under the
restricted class if it wasn't rifled.

It was rifled in the broadest sense of the term, but the lands took
imagination to see, IIRC.

Max

In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...


How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

Sawed-off? Nothing sawed-off about a shotgun with a federally-legal 18"
barrel.

I don't think he knows that, Max, and he doesn't seem real interested
in learning despite my saying it, so I quit.

Far as I can see, he's bought a new boy toy. Nothing wrong with that
but it's like Bobsprit talking about using an angle grinder to polish
gelcoat, or his famous powered router bits. Just because you can or
might own something doesn't make it a good tool for a particular job.

He's got a rifle that's at least as long as a legal shotgun, fires ammo
with way excessive range and penetration for an urban/suburban
situation, and won't be as effective at sub 50m ranges, let alone sub
10m ranges, as the shotgun. But hey, it has a big magazine, a folding
stock and a flash hider. Probably came in way cool black, too. With a
laser dot sight, no less, just like the military use.

PDW

The problem is he has only one gun. You need at least a dozen guns, just to
get started, for covering the basic scenarios. You need at least one gun for
each car, two for every boat over 25 feet, one for every room in the house,
one for each family member and then a working stock of firearms for everyday
use. Of course backups are needed too and don't forget lots and lots of
ammunition.

I sure Ringmaster has proudly taken his first step into excersizing his
First Amendment Rights and, with our prodigious coaching, will flourish and
grow! Happiness is a warm gun!

Amen, brother! Then you need a full machine shop and a reloader's bench
so you can tune your guns and tailor your ammo.

PDW