"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

My first plan would also be to get out of town. But remember I said a
SHTF condition. Shotgun would be to unwieldy inside of a house. Cut
the barrel off and that's a problem with the law. AR15 packs plenty
of
punch if you are using 65 or 75 gr ammo. Normal is 45 or 55 gr. Also
most AR15s shoot 5.56 which is harder hitting than 223. There's
enough
dead Iraqs to prove the AR is a good enough weapon.

Do everyone a favour. DO NOT own a gun until you learn something (more)
about them.

1. Using a rifle inside a house is plain stupid. A short barrelled
shotgun is far more useful.

2. Using heavy FMJ bullets is also stupid. Use hollowpoints or soft
nose rounds. The object is to transfer the kinetic energy into the
target, not the wall, next house, etc etc.

3. There is NO DIFFERENCE between 5.56 NATO and .223 except the labels
on the boxes. Go look up the SAAMI ammo spec if you don't believe me.

I could dig out my reloading manuals and quote loads, bullet weights
etc but frankly, I don't give a damn. I do thank my situation tho,
which is not having you for a next door neighbour.

PDW

Don't forget bullet stability as a function twist rate and bullet weight
for
the 5.56.

Yeah but not real relevant at sub-50m ranges AFAIK. And Vito's right,
if you start popping bad guys further away than that, it's going to be
real difficult explaining it to the cops as self defence.

PDW

I wouldn't use a .223 for close in shooting people in a populated setting.
I'd use a 38 or 9 mm.

In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

My first plan would also be to get out of town. But remember I said a
SHTF condition. Shotgun would be to unwieldy inside of a house. Cut
the barrel off and that's a problem with the law. AR15 packs plenty
of
punch if you are using 65 or 75 gr ammo. Normal is 45 or 55 gr. Also
most AR15s shoot 5.56 which is harder hitting than 223. There's
enough
dead Iraqs to prove the AR is a good enough weapon.

Do everyone a favour. DO NOT own a gun until you learn something (more)
about them.

1. Using a rifle inside a house is plain stupid. A short barrelled
shotgun is far more useful.

2. Using heavy FMJ bullets is also stupid. Use hollowpoints or soft
nose rounds. The object is to transfer the kinetic energy into the
target, not the wall, next house, etc etc.

3. There is NO DIFFERENCE between 5.56 NATO and .223 except the labels
on the boxes. Go look up the SAAMI ammo spec if you don't believe me.

I could dig out my reloading manuals and quote loads, bullet weights
etc but frankly, I don't give a damn. I do thank my situation tho,
which is not having you for a next door neighbour.

PDW

Don't forget bullet stability as a function twist rate and bullet weight
for
the 5.56.

Yeah but not real relevant at sub-50m ranges AFAIK. And Vito's right,
if you start popping bad guys further away than that, it's going to be
real difficult explaining it to the cops as self defence.

PDW

I wouldn't use a .223 for close in shooting people in a populated setting.
I'd use a 38 or 9 mm.

Hey, try telling Ringmaster. I've given up. Personally I'd use a 44Mag
carbine like my old Ruger. Not a military type weapon so no 'evil'
connotations, 18" bbl, light, handy & powerful. If I needed more than 5
rounds, it'd be a firefight against too many people and I'd lose
anyway, so wouldn't start.

One of the side effects of smashing my left elbow so badly is I can't
use a Weaver stance any more. Pretty much out of pistols these days,
tho I may take up black powder silhouette just to keep my eye in.
Always did like those Ruger Old Army's in s/s.

PDW

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

My first plan would also be to get out of town. But remember I
said a
SHTF condition. Shotgun would be to unwieldy inside of a house.
Cut
the barrel off and that's a problem with the law. AR15 packs
plenty
of
punch if you are using 65 or 75 gr ammo. Normal is 45 or 55 gr.
Also
most AR15s shoot 5.56 which is harder hitting than 223. There's
enough
dead Iraqs to prove the AR is a good enough weapon.

Do everyone a favour. DO NOT own a gun until you learn something
(more)
about them.

1. Using a rifle inside a house is plain stupid. A short barrelled
shotgun is far more useful.

2. Using heavy FMJ bullets is also stupid. Use hollowpoints or soft
nose rounds. The object is to transfer the kinetic energy into the
target, not the wall, next house, etc etc.

3. There is NO DIFFERENCE between 5.56 NATO and .223 except the
labels
on the boxes. Go look up the SAAMI ammo spec if you don't believe
me.

I could dig out my reloading manuals and quote loads, bullet weights
etc but frankly, I don't give a damn. I do thank my situation tho,
which is not having you for a next door neighbour.

PDW

Don't forget bullet stability as a function twist rate and bullet
weight
for
the 5.56.

Yeah but not real relevant at sub-50m ranges AFAIK. And Vito's right,
if you start popping bad guys further away than that, it's going to be
real difficult explaining it to the cops as self defence.

PDW

I wouldn't use a .223 for close in shooting people in a populated
setting.
I'd use a 38 or 9 mm.

Hey, try telling Ringmaster. I've given up. Personally I'd use a 44Mag
carbine like my old Ruger. Not a military type weapon so no 'evil'
connotations, 18" bbl, light, handy & powerful. If I needed more than 5
rounds, it'd be a firefight against too many people and I'd lose
anyway, so wouldn't start.

One of the side effects of smashing my left elbow so badly is I can't
use a Weaver stance any more. Pretty much out of pistols these days,
tho I may take up black powder silhouette just to keep my eye in.
Always did like those Ruger Old Army's in s/s.

PDW

I have the "10/44". I like Rugers, the carbine isn't as easy to conceal in
the house as a pistol. It's a good pig gun.

Amen!

Hey, try telling Ringmaster. I've given up.

Your giving up because with every post you make yourself look dumber
and dumber when it comes to the AR or maybe gun related topics in
general. Lets see ............... there's no difference between a 223
and a 5.56, a 18" shotgun would make a better home defense weapon (how
many rounds will an 18" shotgun hold?) red dot sights are lasers and
you are familiar with all the Maryland gun laws. Where did you say you
were from?

"Ringmaster" wrote
... you are familiar with all the Maryland gun laws. Where did you say you
were from?


I can't speak for anybody else but, having modest familiarity with Maryland gun
and self defence laws and jurisprudence I can say that I avoid Maryland whenever
I can and if I lived there I'd move. Maryland law does NOT permit you to defend
your home. If it is invaded, you must run away if possible. You may only fight
back if you are cornered like a rat and threatened with death or great bodily
harm. Robbery or a minor as kicking does not suffice. So, if there ever is
looting and violence like ocurred in New Orleans, you best flee. That AR-15 will
just land you in prison.

Vito wrote:

"Ringmaster" wrote
... you are familiar with all the Maryland gun laws. Where did you say you
were from?


I can't speak for anybody else but, having modest familiarity with Maryland gun
and self defence laws and jurisprudence I can say that I avoid Maryland whenever
I can and if I lived there I'd move.


To Colorado, is it still legal to shoot your wife there? ;-)

Cheers
Marty

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
. ..

I wouldn't use a .223 for close in shooting people in a populated setting.
I'd use a 38 or 9 mm.

Both are great cartridges for urban defense. Neither had enough penetration
to go through walls (windows are another story), and both will stop
assailants provided you shoot them frequently enough, or until they go down.

I've always figured I'd be in court someday, with the dialog going something
like this:

Prosecutor: "Sir, the forensics report says that you shot the man 12 times.
Why did you shoot him a dozen times?"

Me: "With a full magazine and one in the chamber, sir, that's all the gun
holds."

Max