Peter Wiley wrote:
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

one is better off with a different means of deterrent than a
gun.

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.

My picks if I didn't care much about collateral damage:

1. flamethrower. Bit difficult to get hold of, tho.

2. pump action shotgun loaded with buckshot.

3. Any decent semiauto .308 loaded with 150 gr JHP

4. Any decent semiauto .223 loaded with 50gr JHP.

The 308 loaded with FMJ is going to go thru the bad guy, his buddy
behind him, the house behind *him* and maybe a few other items in the
way. With JHP or a nice Nosler solid base boat tail soft nose, the bad
guy is basically going to lose a limb with a hit there, or his chest is
gonna dissolve.

PDW

You can make your own homemade flamethrower....you use a can of
hairspray...you have to be careful, though, because sometimes it
backfires and then....you're gone....

"DSK" wrote in message
...
"Ringmaster" wrote
... I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.



Scotty wrote:
grenades?


How about a good dog?

Frankly, I'm worried about liability. People have been
sued
for shooting robbers. I'm not kidding.

Being sane is a handicap in a crazy country.


In the SHTF situation that Loco is talking about, I'd worry
about staying alive first and lawsuits much later.

SBV

Being sane is a handicap in a crazy country.


Scotty wrote:
In the SHTF situation that Loco is talking about, I'd worry
about staying alive first and lawsuits much later.


Understood. But there is no disaster so bad that the lawyers
will be permanently gone.

If you save your home from looters during a disaster, and
lose it to a lawsuit soon after, what good did you do?

Besides, if you have a big dog, he'll not only defend your
home but can help you hide the bodies. "Why no officer, I
never saw any looters at all in this neighborhood."

DSK

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
. ..

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...
one is better off with a different means of deterrent than a
gun.

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.


Flamethrower.

What are you going to use to keep the cops at bay?

That .223 is good for pigs, coyotes and squirrels. Get a real gun that
shoots real bullets. H&K Model 91 is a good start:

http://www.hkpro.com/hk91.htm

Amen to that. Nothing quite like a .308 or 7.62x51 NATO for stopping a thug
with one shot.

Max

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

one is better off with a different means of deterrent than a
gun.

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.

My picks if I didn't care much about collateral damage:

1. flamethrower. Bit difficult to get hold of, tho.

2. pump action shotgun loaded with buckshot.

3. Any decent semiauto .308 loaded with 150 gr JHP

4. Any decent semiauto .223 loaded with 50gr JHP.

The 308 loaded with FMJ is going to go thru the bad guy, his buddy
behind him, the house behind *him* and maybe a few other items in the
way. With JHP or a nice Nosler solid base boat tail soft nose, the bad
guy is basically going to lose a limb with a hit there, or his chest is
gonna dissolve.

. . . or a substantial portion of his head will disappear.

Max

"DSK" wrote in message
...

What about rocksalt?
The nice thing about a pump action is that you can stuff it with a variety
of loads.

Do you really want to shoot someone and *not* kill him? And the point of
that would be . . .?


Max

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...
My first plan would also be to get out of town. But remember I said a
SHTF condition. Shotgun would be to unwieldy inside of a house. Cut
the barrel off and that's a problem with the law.

A shotgun with an 18" (legal) barrel and a pistol grip in lieu of a
buttstock makes a great weapon indoors. Less collateral damage, too, as #4
buck won't penetrate most walls. The only gun more maneuverable would be a
pistol, and the average joe simply isn't good enough with one to use it
effectively.

Max

"katy" wrote in message
...
Ringmaster wrote:
Anybody who does not own a weapon after seeing what happened in New
Orleans when cops are not available is a fool. I purchased an AR15 for
my "when the **** hits the fan" weapon. I also bought enough magazines
and ammo to hold off the criminal element for days until law
enforcement gets back on line. They will move on to easier pickins
after only a minute of trying to get into my house.

So...just what East Coast disaster are you waiting for? The mammoth
tsunami?

You must have seen "CSI: Miami" last night.

Max

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...

"katy" wrote in


So...just what East Coast disaster are you waiting for? The mammoth
tsunami?

Even worse. Bobsprit: Escape from New York.

Lock and load.

Max

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...
So...just what East Coast disaster are you waiting for? The mammoth
tsunami?

Earthquake, riots, massive power outs, zombies.

" . . . . . . . dogs and cats living together."

Max