O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

Peets and Starbuck founders were partners originally. The Starbucks guy
decided to go commercial. Peets decided to go quality, but they're hard to
find.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
Do you believe in Peets?

I don't even know what Peets is, so therefore, I cannot believe in it....I
do believe in the Geico ghekko, though....

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

Capt. JG wrote:
Peets and Starbuck founders were partners originally. The Starbucks guy
decided to go commercial. Peets decided to go quality, but they're hard to
find.

I get my coffee out of my coffeepot....it's better than their's....

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

That's why I said to save me a seat. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
Peets and Starbuck founders were partners originally. The Starbucks guy
decided to go commercial. Peets decided to go quality, but they're hard
to find.

I get my coffee out of my coffeepot....it's better than their's....

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

Capt. JG wrote:
That's why I said to save me a seat. :-)

Anytime...it's Tanzanian Peaberry this week....

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...

"Maxprop" wrote
The whole thing is bogus, Frank. It's an investment site, the point
being that one is going to need a far larger nest egg if he is planning
to see his 90s.


Why? This country has a whole wave of people planning to enter retirement
while their net worth is in the red. Why bother to start saving now? And
if you start with less than nothing, what difference will it make how long
you'll have to "make it" on your savings?

You neoconservatives obviously know nothing at all about finance.

Right. But if that's the case how does one explain that I can retire today,
draw greater than my current income and never touch the principle, even if
interest rates plunge?

Get a grip, Doug. Where in my statement (the one you quoted) did I intimate
that investing for one's future is a bad idea? Let me help you--I didn't.
I only implied that the life expectancies were seriously exaggerated to be
utilized as a sales tool in order to convince someone with a realistic life
expectancy of 78 that he's going to live to be 95 and therefore needs a much
larger nest egg. Obviously the larger the nest egg the better, but to
fallaciously inflate life expectancies in order to sell something is bogus.

Max

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"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
That's why I said to save me a seat. :-)

Anytime...it's Tanzanian Peaberry this week....

May I inquire as to where you got it?

I have a great source for that and a large number of other excellent
coffees, both regular and organic, if you're interested.

Max

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Maxprop wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
That's why I said to save me a seat. :-)

Anytime...it's Tanzanian Peaberry this week....

May I inquire as to where you got it?

I have a great source for that and a large number of other excellent
coffees, both regular and organic, if you're interested.

Max


Some little coffeeshop over the river in the area of N.N. called
Hilton....on Warwick St.

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"katy" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
That's why I said to save me a seat. :-)

Anytime...it's Tanzanian Peaberry this week....

May I inquire as to where you got it?

I have a great source for that and a large number of other excellent
coffees, both regular and organic, if you're interested.

Max
Some little coffeeshop over the river in the area of N.N. called
Hilton....on Warwick St.

My cousin's son has two coffee houses in MN--college towns--where he roasts
his own special varietals and blends. He has both organic and whatever
isn't considered organic, with no price difference. His coffees are the
best I've ever had. He learned his trade in Seattle, home of some of the
world's best coffee. They have a website which I'll email you, if
interested.

Max

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

Maxprop wrote:
I have a great source for that and a large number of other excellent
coffees, both regular and organic, if you're interested.

Max

Some little coffeeshop over the river in the area of N.N. called
Hilton....on Warwick St.


My cousin's son has two coffee houses in MN--college towns--where he roasts
his own special varietals and blends. He has both organic and whatever
isn't considered organic, with no price difference. His coffees are the
best I've ever had. He learned his trade in Seattle, home of some of the
world's best coffee. They have a website which I'll email you, if
interested.

Don't be too impressed by "organic" coffee. Most of it comes from
Peru, where they decided to focus on organic. It takes three years
and a lot of money and paperwork for a small farm to become certified,
regardless of whether they have been organic for years. On the other
hand, a large corporation and clear cut virgin rainforest and be
instantly certified. Thus, when you buy "organic" you are actually
supporting rain forest deforestation by bug business!

As for price, the Peruvian organic is as cheap as "regular" coffee,
and is much cheaper than the higher quality beans from the best
specialty farms. Thus, if you pay more for organic, you're probably
being had. BTW, if you doubt this, just taste test Trader Joe's
organic vs a small quality roaster's offerings. Or just note that in
Whole Foods they always offer "organic blend" which is mostly cheap
Peruvian.

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"COFFEE SNOB!"

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Maxprop wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
That's why I said to save me a seat. :-)

Anytime...it's Tanzanian Peaberry this week....
May I inquire as to where you got it?

I have a great source for that and a large number of other excellent
coffees, both regular and organic, if you're interested.

Max
Some little coffeeshop over the river in the area of N.N. called
Hilton....on Warwick St.

My cousin's son has two coffee houses in MN--college towns--where he roasts
his own special varietals and blends. He has both organic and whatever
isn't considered organic, with no price difference. His coffees are the
best I've ever had. He learned his trade in Seattle, home of some of the
world's best coffee. They have a website which I'll email you, if
interested.

Max


Sure...thanks...

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
I have a great source for that and a large number of other excellent
coffees, both regular and organic, if you're interested.

Max

Some little coffeeshop over the river in the area of N.N. called
Hilton....on Warwick St.


My cousin's son has two coffee houses in MN--college towns--where he
roasts his own special varietals and blends. He has both organic and
whatever isn't considered organic, with no price difference. His coffees
are the best I've ever had. He learned his trade in Seattle, home of
some of the world's best coffee. They have a website which I'll email
you, if interested.

Don't be too impressed by "organic" coffee. Most of it comes from Peru,
where they decided to focus on organic. It takes three years and a lot of
money and paperwork for a small farm to become certified, regardless of
whether they have been organic for years. On the other hand, a large
corporation and clear cut virgin rainforest and be instantly certified.
Thus, when you buy "organic" you are actually supporting rain forest
deforestation by bug business!

As for price, the Peruvian organic is as cheap as "regular" coffee, and is
much cheaper than the higher quality beans from the best specialty farms.
Thus, if you pay more for organic, you're probably being had. BTW, if you
doubt this, just taste test Trader Joe's organic vs a small quality
roaster's offerings. Or just note that in Whole Foods they always offer
"organic blend" which is mostly cheap Peruvian.

That's all news to me. Thanks for that, Jeff.

My cousin's son's operation is a small, high-quality roaster operation. He
buys raw beans, hand selects individual beans for quality, and then roasts
them in small batches. His French roasts are the best I've ever tasted.
They make absolutely superb espresso.

Max

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"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:09:50 -0500, Jeff said:

Thus, when you buy "organic" you are actually
supporting rain forest deforestation by bug business!

Heaven! Where can a pure-of-heart green enviro turn? Next thing you'll be
telling me ethanol is a losing proposition without guvmint subsidies. Or
that it costs more to recycle NYC's glass and plastic containers and paper
than to make both new.

Nothing is black or white any longer.

Max

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"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
"COFFEE SNOB!"


Probably, and also a beer and wine snob as well. After drinking leg-lifter
lagers and beer imitations for the first half of my life, I learned to drink
*real* beers--ya know, those with complex flavors and substance. Same with
wine--not interested in Two-buck Chuck, Yellowtail, and other such pop wines
anymore. And the same goes for coffee.

You probably are satisfied to open a can of Hills Brothers and brew up a pot
of weak coffee. That's fine--most people are in your camp on that. But if
you ever tried a properly-brewed pot of a superior coffee, just ground from
beans and dripped to perfection, I have no doubt we'd make a convert of you,
Thom. If you're ever in the great lakes in the summer, let me know. We'll
go sailing, but not until we've started the day with what just might be the
best cup of coffee you've ever had.

Max

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Maxprop wrote:
....

My cousin's son's operation is a small, high-quality roaster operation. He
buys raw beans, hand selects individual beans for quality, and then roasts
them in small batches. His French roasts are the best I've ever tasted.
They make absolutely superb espresso.

Max



I've been roasting my own coffee at home for 15 years now. My results
are 40% superb, 40% excellent, 20% so-so. If your cousin has had good
training, and has a knack for it, he should be able to hit the sweet
spot almost every time.

If you want to see what's involved, check out:
http://www.sweetmarias.com/

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

Max,

I'm a resident of the Seattle Area and surrounded by more "COFFEE SNOBS"
than you can count; including my Son & Daughter. I still consider
"Coffee" a beverage. A beverage to be consumed in quanity. I still will
drink my 16 to 20 cups a day and enjoy every one. I drink Folgers but
Hill Brother or even Western Family will do the job. I'll even take a
brake with one of Tony's or Stuarts and enjoy it. The Best cup of Coffee
that live in this old man's mind is the nickel cup I use to get in the
local dinner; which is just a memory. You coffee snobs have made it a
memory.

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"Jean Pudl" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
...

My cousin's son's operation is a small, high-quality roaster operation.
He buys raw beans, hand selects individual beans for quality, and then
roasts them in small batches. His French roasts are the best I've ever
tasted. They make absolutely superb espresso.

Max

I've been roasting my own coffee at home for 15 years now. My results are
40% superb, 40% excellent, 20% so-so. If your cousin has had good
training, and has a knack for it, he should be able to hit the sweet spot
almost every time.

If you want to see what's involved, check out:
http://www.sweetmarias.com/

I considered investing in a small roaster a few years back, but like
home-brewed beer, there are so many producers of superb coffee (and beer)
that my own efforts were just that: efforts. If great coffee and beer
weren't available, I'd be doing both. My cousin's work is impeccable.
We've never gotten anything but first rate products from him.

http://www.meetinggrounds.com

Max

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"Jean Pudl" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
...

My cousin's son's operation is a small, high-quality roaster operation.
He buys raw beans, hand selects individual beans for quality, and then
roasts them in small batches. His French roasts are the best I've ever
tasted. They make absolutely superb espresso.

Max

I've been roasting my own coffee at home for 15 years now. My results are
40% superb, 40% excellent, 20% so-so. If your cousin has had good
training, and has a knack for it, he should be able to hit the sweet spot
almost every time.

If you want to see what's involved, check out:
http://www.sweetmarias.com/

Thanks for the link, Jean. Most informative and fun to peruse.

Max

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Max,

I'm a resident of the Seattle Area and surrounded by more "COFFEE SNOBS"
than you can count; including my Son & Daughter.

Oops. Forgot that.

I still consider
"Coffee" a beverage. A beverage to be consumed in quanity. I still will
drink my 16 to 20 cups a day and enjoy every one. I drink Folgers but
Hill Brother or even Western Family will do the job. I'll even take a
brake with one of Tony's or Stuarts and enjoy it. The Best cup of Coffee
that live in this old man's mind is the nickel cup I use to get in the
local dinner; which is just a memory. You coffee snobs have made it a
memory.

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

I don't think we had anything to do with it. Sure, some places have adopted
gourmet coffees to their menus, but most diners still serve bland black
water. The cost increase is a factor of inflation, not us "coffee snobs."
I'm fully aware that lots of people like you still love that mediocre stuff,
but I don't. Frankly I'd rather drink a good strong tea. I like my
beverages to have flavor, but realize that some just don't care. If people
didn't like weak, flavorless coffee, there wouldn't be any market for the
stuff diners dispense in the hundreds of gallons daily. Interesting to
note, however, is that McDonalds has recently introduced a gourmet coffee to
its menu. But you can still buy the hot black water there.

Max

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Jean Pudl" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
...

My cousin's son's operation is a small, high-quality roaster operation.
He buys raw beans, hand selects individual beans for quality, and then
roasts them in small batches. His French roasts are the best I've ever
tasted. They make absolutely superb espresso.

Max

I've been roasting my own coffee at home for 15 years now. My results
are 40% superb, 40% excellent, 20% so-so. If your cousin has had good
training, and has a knack for it, he should be able to hit the sweet spot
almost every time.

If you want to see what's involved, check out:
http://www.sweetmarias.com/

I considered investing in a small roaster a few years back, but like
home-brewed beer, there are so many producers of superb coffee (and beer)
that my own efforts were just that: efforts. If great coffee and beer
weren't available, I'd be doing both. My cousin's work is impeccable.
We've never gotten anything but first rate products from him.
http://www.meetinggrounds.com

That's how I look at it Max. It's not a bad thing to have the knowledge and
skills, but unless some scifi scenario leaves me wiping my ass with leaves
and using a sharp edged stone to hack my clothes off the backs of animals,
I'll leave the subtleties of refinement to others. Even if the worst were to
happen, my family is more the raping and pillaging type; we'll just have to
hope our new slaves knows how to do all that stuff.
Scout

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"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Max,

I'm a resident of the Seattle Area and surrounded by more "COFFEE SNOBS"
than you can count; including my Son & Daughter. I still consider
"Coffee" a beverage. A beverage to be consumed in quanity. I still will
drink my 16 to 20 cups a day and enjoy every one. I drink Folgers [snip]

Amen Thom, Folgers Classic. I love it too.
Scout

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Max;
Since I put the boat up For Sale, My crew has transported an awful lot
of crap off the boat and to my Garage. Some of those Crap items are gems
though.

I'm attaching a photo of one that was immediately put into use at home.
My favorite PERC. I hope you enjoy the picture while you Chew a mouthful
of Coffee Grounds, Mud Flavored Liquid called Gourmet Coffee at a highly
inflated price.

I usually drink my COFFEE Black but as you can see in the photo, there
Cinn. on the left and Grandma Molasses on the right. That is a can of
Folgars 100% Columbian but as Scout already pointed out Classic will do
just fine.

Now if you want to know about 10 different ways to make that Muddy ****
drinkable, Any Seattle Resident can tell the Blends, Additions, Drips,
Presses, Steamers, Etc what you need. It will still lack the
satisfaction of a good cup of old fashion Perc. black coffee; consumed
in the quantities of a true COFFEE DRINKER!

In other words, you're incorrigible. g Far be it from me to attempt to
change your lifestyle, Thom. But I'll drink the "muddy ****" any day over
the stuff from your perc-o-bladder. Prior to being able to obtain really
great coffee, I would drink a little now and then, but mostly just to wake
myself up on weekends. Now I drink a lot of it daily. It's just damned
good stuff when made properly and with quality beans, just ground to a fine
texture, and dripped correctly.

I'm surprised you haven't been ridden out of Seattle on a rail. :-)

Max

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Max,

When "ARCO" built the Refinery here in Washington in 1969, A group of
old timers from the Phila., Texas, Calif. Chicago, Wyoming and Iowa. We
done our own hiring of local people and trained them . I by the way
transferred from Phila.

Now when we had our Coffee Clubs the saying was; "Don't let the Damn
Philadelphias make the Coffee!" We made it to strong for them.

That was in the early 1970's. Before "Starbucks" started with their
Little Coffee Drive In Houses. That was when Seattle became the Coffee
Capitol. The locals fell in love with custom blends. That includes my
two Kids. I'm still making the same coffee but it went from Strong
Coffee to Weak Coffee.

I still make "Boiler House Coffee" and I love it

P/S I also use Tony's, Millstone and Starbuck's but still prefer "Good
old BOILER HOUSE!" Often with a whole egg in the Perc to hard boil it
for breakfast or lunch.

AND: That's my history lesson for today

Interesting--thanks, Thom. By the way, what is Boiler House Coffee--is that
a brand?

On our dock in the summer, we used to brew up a pot of good, strong coffee,
something like a French roast Tanzanian Peaberry, and put it in an insulated
carafe to offer to others on the dock. It only took one sip and now no one
will touch our coffee. They, like you, like to be able to read a newspaper
through it, apparently. That's fine, actually--it means more for us, or at
least we don't need to brew up quite as much. But I really do like good
strong coffee in the AM. It's just the best way to start the day.

Have you ever had coffee made the way the Egyptians make it? That stuff is
too strong for even moi. You almost do have to chew it.

Max

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

BOILER HOUSE COFFEE: Not a brand or a grind or a Blend. It is Boiled
Coffee. Perc. Coffee is an off Shoot. In Boiler Rooms it's coffee boiled
in a pot usually set on a Steam Line, with water added and coffee as
needed as the shift wears on. By the end of a shift it take a special
effort to close your eyelids (g). After getting use to Real Coffee like
that over some 38 years, your addiction is pretty strong. COFFEE SNOB
wouldn't be able to handle that kind of coffee but to a COFFEE DRINKER
it is the Nectar of Life.

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

Maxwell House.......good to the last drop.

Folgers is good too.

I hear the most expensive coffee around is cat **** coffee.

Joe

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Vito wrote:
The three biggest positive factors that you have going for you a
1. Age
2. Diet
3. Personality type

The one biggest negative factor that you have going for you is:
1. Gender


katy wrote:
Want to borrow some makeup?

And a trowel

DSK

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

... This country has a whole wave of people planning to enter retirement
while their net worth is in the red. Why bother to start saving now? And
if you start with less than nothing, what difference will it make how long
you'll have to "make it" on your savings?

You neoconservatives obviously know nothing at all about finance.


Maxprop wrote:
Right. But if that's the case how does one explain that I can retire today,
draw greater than my current income and never touch the principle, even if
interest rates plunge?


Easy... ever expanding credit.
Another explanation is that you aren't including investment
returns in your "current income" (which indeed they
shouldn't be under many circumstances).


Get a grip, Doug.

Got two, thanks.

.... Where in my statement (the one you quoted) did I intimate
that investing for one's future is a bad idea?

Maybe I should have said "you neocons have absolutely no
sense of sarcasm."


I only implied that the life expectancies were seriously exaggerated to be
utilized as a sales tool in order to convince someone with a realistic life
expectancy of 78 that he's going to live to be 95 and therefore needs a much
larger nest egg. Obviously the larger the nest egg the better, but to
fallaciously inflate life expectancies in order to sell something is bogus.


Agreed, but obviously it's not working. The U.S. has a
negative savings rate and there's little or no sign it's
going up from here.

OTOH why not retire on credit cards? You can always shuffle
your balance from one card to the next. This modern world of
finance is a freeloader's dream scenario.

DSK

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
... This country has a whole wave of people planning to enter retirement
while their net worth is in the red. Why bother to start saving now? And
if you start with less than nothing, what difference will it make how
long you'll have to "make it" on your savings?

You neoconservatives obviously know nothing at all about finance.


Maxprop wrote:
Right. But if that's the case how does one explain that I can retire
today, draw greater than my current income and never touch the principle,
even if interest rates plunge?


Easy... ever expanding credit.

Not in my case. I have no credit debt beyond my home.

Another explanation is that you aren't including investment returns in
your "current income" (which indeed they shouldn't be under many
circumstances).

Just because I'm not including my investment proceeds in my income does not
imply that my income is not substantial. And I guess I should have stated
that we could draw our current combined family income without touching the
principle. The reason we can do that is quite simple: the principle is
also substantial. Don't always attempt to find the red herring in every
situation. Nothing fishy here--just sound investments. Not bad for a
"neocon," eh?

.... Where in my statement (the one you quoted) did I intimate that
investing for one's future is a bad idea?

Maybe I should have said "you neocons have absolutely no sense of
sarcasm."

That may be true--you've cornered the market in it.

I only implied that the life expectancies were seriously exaggerated to
be utilized as a sales tool in order to convince someone with a realistic
life expectancy of 78 that he's going to live to be 95 and therefore
needs a much larger nest egg. Obviously the larger the nest egg the
better, but to fallaciously inflate life expectancies in order to sell
something is bogus.


Agreed, but obviously it's not working. The U.S. has a negative savings
rate and there's little or no sign it's going up from here.

I heard that the day after I posted that. Not good news for the government,
who undoubtedly will be supporting a substantial percentage of the
population on down the road.

OTOH why not retire on credit cards? You can always shuffle your balance
from one card to the next. This modern world of finance is a freeloader's
dream scenario.

I've no doubt someone (other than yourself) has thought of that as a
retirement plan.

Max

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

Easy... ever expanding credit.


Maxprop wrote:
Not in my case. I have no credit debt beyond my home.


Means nothing. People take cash-out refi's all the time, to
pay for accumulated debt or to splurge on a home
entertainment system. I saw a poster the other day
advertising a bank offer of 125% on your home's appraised value.



Another explanation is that you aren't including investment returns in
your "current income" (which indeed they shouldn't be under many
circumstances).


Just because I'm not including my investment proceeds in my income does not
imply that my income is not substantial.

?

What did I say, exactly? Anything that implied what your
investment income is (or is not)?


... And I guess I should have stated
that we could draw our current combined family income without touching the
principle. The reason we can do that is quite simple: the principle is
also substantial. Don't always attempt to find the red herring in every
situation. Nothing fishy here--just sound investments. Not bad for a
"neocon," eh?


Congratulations.

Did you choose to be a neo-conservative so that you could be
the sole voice of fiscal reason in the group?




... Obviously the larger the nest egg the
better, but to fallaciously inflate life expectancies in order to sell
something is bogus.


Agreed, but obviously it's not working. The U.S. has a negative savings
rate and there's little or no sign it's going up from here.


I heard that the day after I posted that.

It's been in the fiscal news for years that the U.S. savings
rate is dropping from low to nothing. Few if any of the
pundits thought it would actually go negative, or stay that
way for this long.

... Not good news for the government,
who undoubtedly will be supporting a substantial percentage of the
population on down the road.


Why should they? Just because the gov't has taken up the
task of driving the middle class into poverty, and
extinguishing the U.S.'s economic base, doesn't mean that
they're going to take any responsibility for the consequences.

Actually, it's somewhat unfair to say "the gov't" is doing
this, since it's really the fault of the politicians
currently in charge; who are not only executing
short-sighted & selfish policies but also replacing
functioning departments with patronage dependent partisan
lackeys.



OTOH why not retire on credit cards? You can always shuffle your balance
from one card to the next. This modern world of finance is a freeloader's
dream scenario.


I've no doubt someone (other than yourself) has thought of that as a
retirement plan.


It seems to be the basic plan for national fiscal policy.

DSK

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

No kidding. With a little effort a person with good credit could get
100 credits cards with a 10K limit. Max them all out buying foriegn
currency the go sailing for 7 yrs 1 day min.

Joe

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

Joe wrote:
No kidding. With a little effort a person with good credit could get
100 credits cards with a 10K limit. Max them all out buying foriegn
currency the go sailing for 7 yrs 1 day min.


And what's the downside?

Back in the 1990s, a lot of investors & "investment
professionals" (ie shills) thought we had entered a new
economy where profits didn't matter, and dividends were
irrelevant. In the short run, they were right, but in the
long run they were dead.

Is this a new idea? Long time ago, a wise man said "In the
long run, we're all dead."

Easy ever-expanding credit with no obligation is the new
"big picture" for fiscal management. In the long run, who's
gonna care?

Frankly, I'm too much of an old fogey to act on these
principles, but after thinking it over, I'm not going to say
they're wrong. FWIW I agree with you about being on a major
corporation's vendor list. That's why I am a subcontractor.
Those on the vendors list are simply known "easy marks."

DSK

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Easy... ever expanding credit.


Maxprop wrote:
Not in my case. I have no credit debt beyond my home.


Means nothing. People take cash-out refi's all the time, to pay for
accumulated debt or to splurge on a home entertainment system. I saw a
poster the other day advertising a bank offer of 125% on your home's
appraised value.

Not here. We have a 15 year fixed rate mortgage loan that's 2/3 paid up.
No re-fi.


Another explanation is that you aren't including investment returns in
your "current income" (which indeed they shouldn't be under many
circumstances).


Just because I'm not including my investment proceeds in my income does
not imply that my income is not substantial.

?

What did I say, exactly? Anything that implied what your investment income
is (or is not)?

I have no investment income. It is reinvested.

... And I guess I should have stated that we could draw our current
combined family income without touching the principle. The reason we can
do that is quite simple: the principle is also substantial. Don't
always attempt to find the red herring in every situation. Nothing fishy
here--just sound investments. Not bad for a "neocon," eh?


Congratulations.

Thank you.

Did you choose to be a neo-conservative so that you could be the sole
voice of fiscal reason in the group?

I didn't know I was one until you labeled me so.

... Obviously the larger the nest egg the better, but to fallaciously
inflate life expectancies in order to sell something is bogus.


Agreed, but obviously it's not working. The U.S. has a negative savings
rate and there's little or no sign it's going up from here.


I heard that the day after I posted that.

It's been in the fiscal news for years that the U.S. savings rate is
dropping from low to nothing. Few if any of the pundits thought it would
actually go negative, or stay that way for this long.

I suspected it would go negative, and continue to slide further in that
direction. My brother and I had this discussion about five years ago.

... Not good news for the government, who undoubtedly will be supporting
a substantial percentage of the population on down the road.


Why should they? Just because the gov't has taken up the task of driving
the middle class into poverty, and extinguishing the U.S.'s economic base,
doesn't mean that they're going to take any responsibility for the
consequences.

They've already assumed the pensions for at least one major company, and I
have no doubt they will do so for GM as well in the future. And when the
day comes that SS is defunct, and it will come, it's doubtful the
politicians will allow people to die in the streets from starvation. Let's
hear it for welfare. As for driving the middle class into poverty and
tanking the US economy, you give the gummint far too much credit. Many
factors outside the influence of the government affect such things. And
frankly I'm not interested in living in a nanny-state with the government
wiping my ass and brushing my teeth for me. The US government is hardly
omnipotent--hell it screws up nearly everything it does now. How do you
expect it to fix the ills of an economy that can't compete on a global level
any longer? And the rich will always get richer--that's axiomatic.


Actually, it's somewhat unfair to say "the gov't" is doing this, since
it's really the fault of the politicians currently in charge; who are not
only executing short-sighted & selfish policies but also replacing
functioning departments with patronage dependent partisan lackeys.

While I don't agree that such politicians have achieved that solely by
themselves, I do agree that they are doing little to correct the problems,
not that they are capable of doing so.


OTOH why not retire on credit cards? You can always shuffle your balance
from one card to the next. This modern world of finance is a freeloader's
dream scenario.


I've no doubt someone (other than yourself) has thought of that as a
retirement plan.


It seems to be the basic plan for national fiscal policy.

Every house of (credit) cards gets knocked down eventually.

Max

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
No kidding. With a little effort a person with good credit
could get
100 credits cards with a 10K limit. Max them all out
buying foriegn
currency the go sailing for 7 yrs 1 day min.


And then what?

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

Well if you are smart you would invest 90% of the 1 million dollars as
you explore the globe.
When you return after the statue of limitations is up... you can use
your wealth as you please.

And with so much cash in the bank you will be receiving 100's of new
credit card offers.
What's in your wallet?

Joe

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
Well if you are smart you would invest 90% of the 1
million dollars as
you explore the globe.
When you return after the statue of limitations is up...
you can use
your wealth as you please.


does the statute of limitations apply to CC fraud?


And with so much cash in the bank you will be receiving
100's of new
credit card offers.
What's in your wallet?


Visa. But I just applied for an American Exp. Business
card. They're offering $50 off on the first purchase. I'll
use it a few times then cancel it.

Scotty

O/T Life Expectancy Calculator
 

Means nothing. People take cash-out refi's all the time, to pay for
accumulated debt or to splurge on a home entertainment system. I saw a
poster the other day advertising a bank offer of 125% on your home's
appraised value.


Maxprop wrote:
Not here. We have a 15 year fixed rate mortgage loan that's 2/3 paid up.
No re-fi.


Refinancing isn't necessarily a bad idea, just like gov't
deficits. It all depends on where the money goes. I wouldn't
touch an ARM myself. We refinanced our house at 4.5% but
didn't max the cash out... it was tempting to do so & invest
the cash in bond funds & REITs paying 9% and up, but I
(well, both of us) resisted the temptation.



What did I say, exactly? Anything that implied what your investment income
is (or is not)?


I have no investment income. It is reinvested.


Ahem. It may be reinvested... it may even be qualified (tax
sheltered). But it is still income. I hope your accountant
knows the difference.



Did you choose to be a neo-conservative so that you could be the sole
voice of fiscal reason in the group?


I didn't know I was one until you labeled me so.


You're not a conservative, for sure.



They've already assumed the pensions for at least one major company, and I
have no doubt they will do so for GM as well in the future.

Yep. The PBGC ballon gets bigger every week.


... And when the
day comes that SS is defunct, and it will come

Wrong.

Why do so many people have the misconception that Social
Security is an investment program?

Social Security cannot go bankrupt. It is a gov't agency. It
can only go bankrupt if Uncle Sam folds up too.

Now, what the issue really is: what happens when Social
Security starts paying out more in retirement benefits than
it is taking in in taxes? That day is definitely coming.
It's a long way in the future (~ 40 years). Of course,
raising the ceiling on the SS tax would push that day
decades further into the future, but that idea is anathema
to the "conservatives" who can easily push the country into
record deficits for no structural reason and no
accountability but cannot stomach the idea of rich people
paying their share of taxes..





... it's doubtful the
politicians will allow people to die in the streets from starvation.

Really? I can imagine some politicians letting that happen
quite easily.


... As for driving the middle class into poverty and
tanking the US economy, you give the gummint far too much credit. Many
factors outside the influence of the government affect such things.

Agreed, but the real problem is the long arm of the IRS and
the current tax structure, which favors those with high-paid
lobbysists at the expense of everybody else.


....And
frankly I'm not interested in living in a nanny-state with the government
wiping my ass and brushing my teeth for me.

Did I suggest that?

... The US government is hardly
omnipotent--hell it screws up nearly everything it does now. How do you
expect it to fix the ills of an economy that can't compete on a global level
any longer?

Says who? If you believe that America & Americans are
somehow inherently inferior, then maybe you can justify your
belief that the American economy can't compete on a global
level.

I believe it can, but we must be given a fair chance. Right
now, the playing field is skewed very badly against the
average citizen.


... And the rich will always get richer--that's axiomatic.


So let's make sure that we have a plutocracy, gov't run by
rich in their own interest, and let the U.S. turn into a 3rd
world mud hole. It's predestined to be so!





Actually, it's somewhat unfair to say "the gov't" is doing this, since
it's really the fault of the politicians currently in charge; who are not
only executing short-sighted & selfish policies but also replacing
functioning departments with patronage dependent partisan lackeys.


While I don't agree that such politicians have achieved that solely by
themselves, I do agree that they are doing little to correct the problems,
not that they are capable of doing so.


They are capable if the U.S. voter takes control of the
gov't again. Last I looked, votes still counted. If every
single incumbent was turned out of office for a couple of
election cycles, things would change for the better.

The problem is that politicians have discovered advertising,
advertisers have discovered behavioral psychology, and
business has discovered that handing politicians huge
amounts of money for advertising gets them guaranteed profits.

If you spend enough money on advertising, you can convince
people to vote for their own flaying. And that's what is
happening. Gerrymandered districts with statistically safe
voter populations and huge campaign budgets have made our
professional politicians (remember when most politicians had
a real job before they went into politics?) believe that
they can do anything at all and make the voters swallow it.
And so far, they're right.





Every house of (credit) cards gets knocked down eventually.


Yep. The only question is, when?

DSK