"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message
...
: Steve, I don't think he is there any more. I
didn't say he
: was a CP instructor--he probably was. He did
serve as
: BK/BC IT outside of the Naval Academy for US
Sailing
: commerical keelboat school. Give me a call or
pass your
: phone number to Doug and I'll tell you whatever
you want
: to know.

You can find my email address and email me.
That's probably the best way to get me.

:
: Tell me Steve, do you think a keelboat
instructor needs
: to take yet another certification course to
teach small
: boats? I don't. That issue alone turned me
away from
: volunteering at one location.

I do. Most keel boat sailors I know haven't a
clue about capsizing or weight placement.

:
: Do you think that every single certification
required
: that someone take an evaluation course? The
purpose
: of which is to make money? Should there not be
a
: process where a committee review is sufficient
to
: grant such status? Take the Naval Academy guy.
: It was presumed he was passed and he was not
: evaluated to the same standard as I was. In my
: opinion, he probably could have shown he taught
: such courses, document this fact and be able to
: submit a resume to place out of such a
requirement.

I do. How else are you going to evaluate their
skills? Take their word for it? Most people I
know over estimate their skills.
:
: Certainly if the presumption is everyone should
be
: evaluate to the same standard, they should all
be
: treated exactly the same. Everything should be
: above board. If it's not, it needs to be fixed.
: Those at fault need to be removed from such
: authority.
:
: Given the close similarities between ASA and
bogUS
: Sailing's keelboat programs, do you think ASA
: certified instructor need to re-qualify for US
Sailing?
: I don't.

I don't know anything about the requirements for
ASA's keel boat instructors.

:
: Do you think less qualified people should be
: evaluating those with more comprehensive sailing
: resumes? I don't.

It depends. I know there are more qualified
sailors than me who have far less teaching
ability.

:
: Do you think a high percentage of the IT's
should come
: from one sailing school? I don't.

Doesn't matter as long as they meet the standard.
:
: Do you think a man who runs a commercial sailing
: school should be the training chair? I don't.

Who better to understand the training
requirements? Would a pencil pusher be better
qualified?

:
: Do you think commercial sailing instructor's
deserve
: their own representation at US Sailing? I do.

I might have an opinion if I were in a commercial
venture.

:
: You say there are lots of opportunities for
feedback
: on the small boat side. Why then is there a gap
in the
: grievance process in the By-Laws for
instructors?

Talk to your RTC.

:
: The bottom line is it seems most sailor wants to
think
: they are better than most everyone else. I've
seen it
: in racing crews, I've seen it in US Sailing.
You have
: so many ego's trying to drive others down in the
pecking
: order. What happened to developing skills?

That's why there are instructor evaluations.

:
: I've said it many times in the past. You have
to be
: humble if you want to learn. US Sailing needs
to
: develop some humility.
:
:

S.

: "NotPony" wrote
: Bart, who is this Navy guy who is now a CP
: instructor? Cmdr. Vandenberg is the Director
of
: the NA's sailing program, and he isn't a CP
: instructor. In fact, I don't see anyone in the
: list that is associated with the NA.
: I don't know about the keelboat side, but in
the
: small boat training side, there are many
: opportunities for the instructors and host
site to
: be critiqued.
: S.
:
:

US SAILING's financial statements and budgets are
available on their website.
S.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message
...
: I like and admire Rich too. My only beef with
him, and
: it is a big one, is he refused to document 151
days of
: sea time I had with him in 1995 which delayed
getting
: my USCG license considerably. The reason being
he
: was afraid of the USCG. I was not the only one
hurt by
: that policy. Is it favoritism to document sea
time only
: for employees with USCG licenses? I think so.
Equal
: credit for equal work. That is fair. If he
was worried
: about the consequences he should have taken
action
: himself to clarify the matter with the USCG.
:
: Other than that. I'll give credit where it is
due. His school
: is probably the best in the world. And his
techniques are
: the best for instruction--thoroughly refined and
perfected.
: I'd send my own family members to learn there.
:
: US Sailing is, I'm told, working with the USCG
to make
: some changes to give exemptions to the licensing
requirement
: for sailing instructors. Frankly, I feel bogUS
Sailing has
: screwed up horribly by not having this done ten
years ago,
: given the problem was well known at that time.
Frankly
: I don't expect any progress in that area,
because I've seen
: nothing in print on the subject. Without
documentation
: there is never accountability.
:
: If they can pay to lobby to be the "Governing
Body of
: the Sport, why can't they lobby to make
important changes
: that would benefit sailing instructors? It's
because it won't
: make them any money. An effort like this take a
concerted
: effort, constant pressure, public editorials,
phone calls from
: lots of people to make it happen--not one guy's
part-time
: effort. If I had the responsibility to make
this happen I
: could make it happen in one year. If I didn't
I'd be working
: to get someone fired in the USCG.
:
: Lets watch. I'll bet nothing happens. Then
will you agree that
: bogUS Sailing is inept? Will you speak out
about it to put
: pressure on the subject? Ten years from now
they will
: still be talking about this and saying they are
making progress.
:
: Tell me Steve. Do you know who is paid at US
Sailing? Do
: you know how much they make? Have you seen an
accurate
: spreadsheet showing how all the money is spent?
Why do they
: hide this information? Why is it not displayed
as a file on there
: web site? Why are meeting minutes so terse?
:
: Things I've been told about never show up in
meeting minutes.
: That is either proof they do not document
things, or proof they
: are not doing the things they claim to be doing.
:
: I think their insurance is worth investigation.
Why is there not
: a more competitive process for insurance. They
only have one
: insurance provider. That smells like kickback
to me.
:
: One final point. I think bogUS Sailing should
lose it's non-profit
: status--because they do not represent their
constituents.
:
: I think I'll look up the tax laws on the
subject. I'll bet I can
: find an issue to support my assertion. Stirring
the pot can only
: improve bogUS Sailing and maybe it will make
them into an
: organization worth joining.
:
:
: "NotPony" wrote
: I also have a great deal of respect for Rich
: Jepsen. He has done well in leading the
training
: committee in rewriting the level II training
and
: they are almost done the rewrite of the level
I
: and Start Sailing Right.
: No, US SAILING isn't perfect, but I think it
does
: well with it's small staff and volunteers.
: S.
:
:

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...
Bart,

Unfortunately your experiences are not unique.

I've seen a homeowner's association ruin a person who was
building a home
that was not even in their jurisdiction. The association
filed numerous
lawsuits against the person, officers of the association
tresspassed and
vandalized the construction site, they filed false
complaints and in the
end, when it got to court, they weren't even a legally
recognized home
owners association.

I've seen a narcissistic boss manipulate employees to work
as much overtime
as they would bear (without any form of compensation),
routinely expose
workers to ground up silicates (sending one to the
hospital) fumes and other
OSHA regulated hazards, not pay people at all, change time
cards, lie and
coverup to superiors, give raises in writing but never pay
them, run good
people out (40% turnover) and finally push a person into a
mental hospital.


you saw all this , and did nothing?

SV

Oh No, now you've done it.

he's gonna post your address!!!!!!!!!


SV


"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:0JUTf.7378$_Q.2396@edtnps89...

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:10:59 GMT, "Capt.Mooron"

wrote:


"Mys Terry" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:47:39 GMT, "Capt.Mooron"

wrote:

Nice Smack Down Doug!!!
:-)

CM


Smack down? It was a lengthy WHINE. Poor Doug lost
some races, and of
course HE
couldn't be responsible! It must be those mean old US
Sailing people.
What
a
simpering wimp!

He smacked himself down with that one, Mooron.


Just out of Curiosity?? Since when... pray tell....
did you become
delusional enough to believe your opinion matters??

Seriously?!!!

CM


It appears it mattered to you, Guy!

Aw Sheesh... now you're all hurt again aren't you.....
you really should
get a thicker skin Billy! These tantrums you throw don't
go far in according
your opinions any merit. Now go take a "time-out" in the
corner until you've
thought this through.

This fricken' geriatric infantile behaviour of yours is
wearing thin.....

CM

Just imagine the psychological torture of trying to work for a company that
operated like the organization you described.



"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...

"DSK" wrote

IMHO a lot of that has to do with personalities. The people who are
attracted to the upper levels of these types of groups are either service
driven (and their idea of "service" may not be the same as yours or mine)
or ego driven.

These groups turn the same people over and over in the
different jobs in the same functional areas. While they have
provision for changing the "leadership" positions, the old
guard remain highly placed within the organization and exert
tremendous influence. Basically, if you don't go along with
their "Party Line" you are forced out. So ideas become
entrenched.

A strong performer is a threat to the old guard because it
diminishes their authority. So while the old guard recirculates in
lesser positions they retain influence beyond their authority. I've
observed they do not want the newcomers to make significant
progress, particularly in areas the entrenched people formerly served
as leaders. In other words the old leaders do not want the new ones
to outshine them because this diminshes their authority. The concept
of moving things along, and getting things done is delayed to a snails
pace to mitigate such threats--perferably until someone else takes
over and the process continues. The net result is little gets done.

We do see that provisions are made to protect fiefdoms. Open
elections for specific positions are not part of the process. The
good old boys control access to jobs and influence.

However, if someone makes a big enough stink, topics do get
talked about. An outside threat can make things happen when
nothing else will. Keep up the pressure and things may change.

I tried in vain for a year to get the local USPS coastline squadrons
to coordinate their course offerings so that ever course would be
offered every year. The District felt threatened by this. Some
thought I was trying to split the district in half--not the case. It
was a simple matter of trying to serve the needs of the students.
Everyone told me that other people had tried to do this and failed.
I beat myself up trying to coordinate things, and the district people
ordered me to stop having working group meetings. Why? What
possible reason could they have. I invited them to set it up
organize it and lead it. Nothing. Eventually I quit. That actually
shook things up enough so that the meeting was finally scheduled.
Many people called me at the lower levels called and asked me
to participate. I'd had enough.

Similarly I've volunteered numerous times at US Sailing though
various people and they never got a reply back. Can you wonder
why I think they are so bogus? What non-profit turns away
any volunteer? That is the first thing you learn working at a
non-profit--never turn away a volunteer! What conclusion can
you draw except they are a bunch of losers--poorly lead, poorly
managed, and unable to represent their constituents.

I would describe USSA's role in the selection process as interfering,
money-laundering, and playing favorites.

They certainly give the appearance they are playing favorites. The
same names come up over and over again. That is a bad sign.

Still I'm shocked the system is not totally open and transparent
to the world. That would be fair. Whether they would argue the
system is fair not or not is not relevant. If it gives the appearance
of being unfair it is not an acceptable system. I'll have to look into
this. They should be hammered on the subject until they change to
a fair system.

But the US Olympic sailing selection process should absolutely be open,
ie the process & the priorities of the selection committee should be
known to the competitors. This "secret probation" malarkey is right out
of Animal House. They claim they don't want competitors to 'game the
system' but it's obviously (IMHO) being gamed from the inside.

How can you game the system if it is based on skills on the
water? I don't understand why this is not the case?

Again, it's a question of personalities... I think that some people
probably would refuse to serve on Race Committees if they didn't get the
chance to tyrannize the racers with their majestic authority. But USSA
certification magnifies this tendency when it should minimize it, IMHO.

I haven't raced much since I lived in the San Francisco Bay
area. The race committee work there was exceptional. Nearly
all the racing I did was one-design. I have no complaints
about it. If it did it would be nit picking. Of course the wind
was pretty consistent there--which makes it easy for a race
committee.

Here in Connecticut I can't say I'm terribly impressed with
the race courses they lay out. The PHRF racing I've been it
used buoys and never set a marks. It is laughable IMHO, and
hard to take seriously. They use downwind starts! Why? I
don't get it. On the other hand, the yacht club races for
one-design, seemed to be well run--many of them with very
impressive programs. Now this is club racing, not major
regattas where people seem to go pyscho.

How do you feel about the race committees at the yacht
club, fleet, level?

.... I'd like to know more about how US Sailing
spend their money.

A lot of people would. The dinghy classes are sure that their dues & fees
are subsiding the keelboats & offshore racing, the big boat guys are
complaining that they are ****ing away money on the little boats.

My choice would be to let the members vote where each of
there dollars is spent--without exception. If that means
some people don't get paid, too bad.

Where do they spend all the money?

I bet they do have an annual treasurer's report, but I don't know where
it's published.

I doubt many see it, and if they do, I'll bet the important
details are folded in to bigger pots where they won't show.
I want to see spreadsheets broken down by funcation area
down to the line item expenditure.

As I said before, my solution was to pretty much shrug off involvement...
except when pulled into it by the clubs where we sail.

My point of view also. With the addition of loudly pointing out
the problem areas to motivate those in charge into improving
the organization.

Or people REALLY impressed with themselves...

Bart Senior wrote:
Warning! While many in the USCGA are sharp seaman.

Many more are untrained novices in the "keystone cop" category.

"Dave" wrote

Jay Santos" said:
Is there some type of volunteer sail organization much like the Citizens'
Auxiliary Police that aid the Coast Guard?

Not a "sail organization," but there's a Coast Guard Auxiliary. Your local
CG should be able to put you in touch with the local one.

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...
Bart,

Unfortunately your experiences are not unique.

I've seen a homeowner's association ruin a person who was
building a home
that was not even in their jurisdiction. The association
filed numerous
lawsuits against the person, officers of the association
tresspassed and
vandalized the construction site, they filed false
complaints and in the
end, when it got to court, they weren't even a legally
recognized home
owners association.

I've seen a narcissistic boss manipulate employees to work
as much overtime
as they would bear (without any form of compensation),
routinely expose
workers to ground up silicates (sending one to the
hospital) fumes and other
OSHA regulated hazards, not pay people at all, change time
cards, lie and
coverup to superiors, give raises in writing but never pay
them, run good
people out (40% turnover) and finally push a person into a
mental hospital.


you saw all this , and did nothing?

SV


It was worse than what I described. I did plenty, but to no apparent avail.
Time may tell otherwise.

Amen!

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ahh... Bob the PT boat has not been restored.

That Sea Scouts troop have a big project that is going to cost big
bucks!

We have a WWII vintage PT here in Clearlake. Called the "Ohhh Frankie"
seems Sinatra was aboard during the war.

Joe

There's a wonderful restoration on the North side of Clear Lake, just east
of Red Adair's old place. It's a 19 foot sailboat. Have you seen it?

Praise!

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Never in the sea scouts, but you're right..I have been skipper of one
Sea Scout boat.

I was an airman in the C.A.P.

Were you a hall monitor in JHS?



Joe

Good point.

"Bob Crantz" wrote
Just imagine the psychological torture of trying to work for a company
that operated like the organization you described.