US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

Jon, I agree with you. The USA is pretty good about open markets. Esp
as compared with the EEC and Japan, just to pick 2 examples. It's
really US agriculture that shows up as protectionist. We pretty much
stopped doing it a long time ago as it distorts the market and the
consumer or general taxpayer picks up the tab. Fine if you can afford
it. One of these days the CAP is really going to cause the EEC some
grief, it already costs a fortune and is rife with corruption.

PDW

In article , Capt. JG
wrote:

Peter, compared to many (perhaps even most) other countries, we have far
more open markets. Sure, we're not perfect, especially given the current
administration, but we're not that bad either.

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

Scotty wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...

We do import out-of-season produce from South America.

And we grow

enough here to supply our own needs. Why would we import?

Why

would I eat French or British apples when I can have a far

superior

(I've seen what the Brits call apples) apple from

Michigan, Oregon,

or Washington Why would we import potatoes from anywhere

when you

can get 20 lbs. of Michigan, Maine, or Idaho potatoes for

2.99/bag?

Why would we import wheat, corn, or soy when we have

acres upon

acres of our own? And why would we import produce from

countries so

far away that the produce would have to be fixed with some

type of

preservative so it didn't become overly ripe along the

way? Not to

mention that the closer the fruit is to ripe on the vine,

the more

nutrients there are in it, thus making some imports less

valuable as

a food source? Why import beef when some countries have

mad cow

disease and we don't and we have the ability to raise it

ourselves?

We're a huge country, with many different climes and

growing

seasons, unlike some countries that are limited by their

latitude.

What do you want us to import that we don't already have?

We are

even growing our own kiwi fruit now.


Bananas?



We get them from the Caribbean...we do import some foodstuff that is
not available here and that's fine but why import what we already
raise ourselves?

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , katy
wrote:


Peter Wiley wrote:

This from a citizen of a country that does everything it can think of
to keep agricultural produce *out* of the USA.......

Ah, the irony.

PDW

In article , Capt. JG
wrote:



I don't think it's a matter of protectionism. It's a matter of other
countries opening up their markets.

We do import out-of-season produce from South America. And we grow
enough here to supply our own needs. Why would we import? Why
would I eat French or British apples when I can have a far superior
(I've seen what the Brits call apples) apple from Michigan, Oregon,
or Washington Why would we import potatoes from anywhere when you
can get 20 lbs. of Michigan, Maine, or Idaho potatoes for 2.99/bag?
Why would we import wheat, corn, or soy when we have acres upon
acres of our own? And why would we import produce from countries so
far away that the produce would have to be fixed with some type of
preservative so it didn't become overly ripe along the way? Not to
mention that the closer the fruit is to ripe on the vine, the more
nutrients there are in it, thus making some imports less valuable as
a food source? Why import beef when some countries have mad cow
disease and we don't and we have the ability to raise it ourselves?
We're a huge country, with many different climes and growing
seasons, unlike some countries that are limited by their latitude.
What do you want us to import that we don't already have? We are
even growing our own kiwi fruit now.


Shrug. Most US beef is from feedlots. IMHO feedlots are a disgusting
aberration and rate as cruelty to animals. This is an informed opinion;
I once spent 2 years designing & building cattle feedlot management
software for Australia's top agro-science research group. During that 2
years I spent a *lot* of time working hands-on in feedlots. One of the
most important modules in the software dealt with vetinary drugs, their
effects & witholding periods from market etc. I quit the day V1.0 was
finished when they wouldn't let me go to a different project. If you
don't have some form of prion disease, you're very, very lucky because
I know that your husbandry methods aren't the reasons. Or weren't 10
years ago when I was doing this stuff.

As for fresh fruit & vegetables, I agree fully. Local is best.

The problem with your acres & acres of wheat, corn soy etc isn't that
you have too little, it's that it costs you too much. To prop up your
farmers, you refuse to allow imports from places which can grow those
foodstuffs more efficiently. Hence my comment WRT the irony of a US
citizen complaining about protection. It is a *fact* that other
countries can produce those foodstuffs more cheaply than you can,
including delivery to the USA. Often those countries are 3rd World ones
trying to get a better std of living for themselves by exporting
agro-produce. Stopping them is doing 2 things, both bad. First, you're
paying more than you need for domestic foodstuffs. Second, you're
helping to keep others impoverished.

Of course, it's actually worse than that because you use market
subsidies to sell to o/s countries, thereby distorting the
international markets.

You probably waste enough money annually to pay for another invasion
of, say, Syria.

PDW

I don't adhere to the Walmart mentality...importation of cheap goods
to the US is driving US manufactureres out of business. And I am
not an adherent to an a system of equal global economy, which IMO,
smacks of socialism.

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

In article , katy
wrote:

Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , katy
wrote:


Peter Wiley wrote:

This from a citizen of a country that does everything it can think of
to keep agricultural produce *out* of the USA.......

Ah, the irony.

PDW

In article , Capt. JG
wrote:



I don't think it's a matter of protectionism. It's a matter of other
countries opening up their markets.

We do import out-of-season produce from South America. And we grow
enough here to supply our own needs. Why would we import? Why
would I eat French or British apples when I can have a far superior
(I've seen what the Brits call apples) apple from Michigan, Oregon,
or Washington Why would we import potatoes from anywhere when you
can get 20 lbs. of Michigan, Maine, or Idaho potatoes for 2.99/bag?
Why would we import wheat, corn, or soy when we have acres upon
acres of our own? And why would we import produce from countries so
far away that the produce would have to be fixed with some type of
preservative so it didn't become overly ripe along the way? Not to
mention that the closer the fruit is to ripe on the vine, the more
nutrients there are in it, thus making some imports less valuable as
a food source? Why import beef when some countries have mad cow
disease and we don't and we have the ability to raise it ourselves?
We're a huge country, with many different climes and growing
seasons, unlike some countries that are limited by their latitude.
What do you want us to import that we don't already have? We are
even growing our own kiwi fruit now.


Shrug. Most US beef is from feedlots. IMHO feedlots are a disgusting
aberration and rate as cruelty to animals. This is an informed opinion;
I once spent 2 years designing & building cattle feedlot management
software for Australia's top agro-science research group. During that 2
years I spent a *lot* of time working hands-on in feedlots. One of the
most important modules in the software dealt with vetinary drugs, their
effects & witholding periods from market etc. I quit the day V1.0 was
finished when they wouldn't let me go to a different project. If you
don't have some form of prion disease, you're very, very lucky because
I know that your husbandry methods aren't the reasons. Or weren't 10
years ago when I was doing this stuff.

As for fresh fruit & vegetables, I agree fully. Local is best.

The problem with your acres & acres of wheat, corn soy etc isn't that
you have too little, it's that it costs you too much. To prop up your
farmers, you refuse to allow imports from places which can grow those
foodstuffs more efficiently. Hence my comment WRT the irony of a US
citizen complaining about protection. It is a *fact* that other
countries can produce those foodstuffs more cheaply than you can,
including delivery to the USA. Often those countries are 3rd World ones
trying to get a better std of living for themselves by exporting
agro-produce. Stopping them is doing 2 things, both bad. First, you're
paying more than you need for domestic foodstuffs. Second, you're
helping to keep others impoverished.

Of course, it's actually worse than that because you use market
subsidies to sell to o/s countries, thereby distorting the
international markets.

You probably waste enough money annually to pay for another invasion
of, say, Syria.

PDW

I don't adhere to the Walmart mentality...importation of cheap goods
to the US is driving US manufactureres out of business. And I am
not an adherent to an a system of equal global economy, which IMO,
smacks of socialism.

Riiiiiiiiiight. So what you're saying is, you'd rather inefficient and
expensive locally made goods than something of equal quality from
overseas, at a lower price.

So - tell me why you own a French yacht when there are so many more
expensive and inferior US made ones available.

PDW

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , katy
wrote:


Peter Wiley wrote:

In article , katy
wrote:



Peter Wiley wrote:


This from a citizen of a country that does everything it can think of
to keep agricultural produce *out* of the USA.......

Ah, the irony.

PDW

In article , Capt. JG
wrote:




I don't think it's a matter of protectionism. It's a matter of other
countries opening up their markets.

We do import out-of-season produce from South America. And we grow
enough here to supply our own needs. Why would we import? Why
would I eat French or British apples when I can have a far superior
(I've seen what the Brits call apples) apple from Michigan, Oregon,
or Washington Why would we import potatoes from anywhere when you
can get 20 lbs. of Michigan, Maine, or Idaho potatoes for 2.99/bag?
Why would we import wheat, corn, or soy when we have acres upon
acres of our own? And why would we import produce from countries so
far away that the produce would have to be fixed with some type of
preservative so it didn't become overly ripe along the way? Not to
mention that the closer the fruit is to ripe on the vine, the more
nutrients there are in it, thus making some imports less valuable as
a food source? Why import beef when some countries have mad cow
disease and we don't and we have the ability to raise it ourselves?
We're a huge country, with many different climes and growing
seasons, unlike some countries that are limited by their latitude.
What do you want us to import that we don't already have? We are
even growing our own kiwi fruit now.


Shrug. Most US beef is from feedlots. IMHO feedlots are a disgusting
aberration and rate as cruelty to animals. This is an informed opinion;
I once spent 2 years designing & building cattle feedlot management
software for Australia's top agro-science research group. During that 2
years I spent a *lot* of time working hands-on in feedlots. One of the
most important modules in the software dealt with vetinary drugs, their
effects & witholding periods from market etc. I quit the day V1.0 was
finished when they wouldn't let me go to a different project. If you
don't have some form of prion disease, you're very, very lucky because
I know that your husbandry methods aren't the reasons. Or weren't 10
years ago when I was doing this stuff.

As for fresh fruit & vegetables, I agree fully. Local is best.

The problem with your acres & acres of wheat, corn soy etc isn't that
you have too little, it's that it costs you too much. To prop up your
farmers, you refuse to allow imports from places which can grow those
foodstuffs more efficiently. Hence my comment WRT the irony of a US
citizen complaining about protection. It is a *fact* that other
countries can produce those foodstuffs more cheaply than you can,
including delivery to the USA. Often those countries are 3rd World ones
trying to get a better std of living for themselves by exporting
agro-produce. Stopping them is doing 2 things, both bad. First, you're
paying more than you need for domestic foodstuffs. Second, you're
helping to keep others impoverished.

Of course, it's actually worse than that because you use market
subsidies to sell to o/s countries, thereby distorting the
international markets.

You probably waste enough money annually to pay for another invasion
of, say, Syria.

PDW

I don't adhere to the Walmart mentality...importation of cheap goods
to the US is driving US manufactureres out of business. And I am
not an adherent to an a system of equal global economy, which IMO,
smacks of socialism.


Riiiiiiiiiight. So what you're saying is, you'd rather inefficient and
expensive locally made goods than something of equal quality from
overseas, at a lower price.

So - tell me why you own a French yacht when there are so many more
expensive and inferior US made ones available.

PDW
I didn't import it...we bought it used,,,and I don't think we should
be isolationist...I am a proponent of the American farm movement,
though, have had many friends who are small patch farmers eking out
an existence...yes, big cities and large national food chains do use
feed lot beef, but in the heartland of America, you'll find
homegrown produce and homegrown meat in the stores. Some local
chains make a point of buying all the 4-H animals and the FFA
winners. It's your perspective of America. You think of big
cities, etc. I think of the midwest and rural life. Selling out by
importing cheap produce only anihilates a lifestyle that is part of
our history that us struggling to exist.

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

Dave wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:32:57 -0500, katy
said:


a lifestyle that is part of
our history


The notion has a certain romantic appeal, but the lifestyle passed 30 or 40
years ago. The family farm is today a creature of Madison Avenue used almost
entirely in defense of large agribusinesses.

Michigan is still small farm based...as are several other states...

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..


So - tell me why you own a French yacht when there are so many more
expensive and inferior US made ones available.


She bought her boat used, Pete. It was the best boat available in her price
range at the time.

Max

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..


So - tell me why you own a French yacht when there are so many more
expensive and inferior US made ones available.


She bought her boat used, Pete. It was the best boat available in her price
range at the time.

Oh, I don't doubt it. Point is, tho, that Katy coulda bought a new US
made boat for a higher price and thereby supported US industry. It
might have been a smaller boat, or a worse equipped boat, or whatever,
of course.

So - what's the difference with foodstuffs? Why insist that people have
to buy US grown produce instead of cheaper imported produce, when the
same logic isn't applied to other items - like boats.

That's my point.

PDW

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

In article , katy
wrote:

Dave wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:32:57 -0500, katy
said:


a lifestyle that is part of
our history


The notion has a certain romantic appeal, but the lifestyle passed 30 or 40
years ago. The family farm is today a creature of Madison Avenue used almost
entirely in defense of large agribusinesses.

Michigan is still small farm based...as are several other states...

Lessee......

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/usa/states/michigan/

Population - 9,938,444 (as of 2000) [Michigan is the eighth most
populous state in the USA, after California, New York, Texas, Florida,
Illinois, Pennsylvania and Ohio]
Major Industries - car manufacturing, farming (corn, soybeans, wheat),
timber, fishing

Somehow, Katy, I don't think that anyone can really claim that Michigan
is small farm based. Even the farming listed - corn, soybeans & wheat -
are broadacre agribusiness farming.

Sorry, but you're wrong. There may well be a lot of small farms, but
unless you can show some figures showing they produce a significant
amount of food, they simply don't count economically.

And, like it or not, you're in a global economy. Your oil comes from
overseas. Increasingly minerals come from overseas. You aren't self
sufficient in much if anything including food probably, once the lack
of chemicals and fuels are factored in (broadacre farming only works
with a high energy budget). Most 1st World economies are the same. I
don't particularly like this myself, but it's still a fact.

As a matter of national strategy I can see making a case for food self
sufficiency in basic foodstuffs. However this *always* gets rorted and
you end up with export mountains (funded by taxpayers) dumped to try to
salvage something. In the process you trash other economies. That's
both the USA and the EU.

Don't even start me on sugar.

PDW

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:32:57 -0500, katy

said:


a lifestyle that is part of our history


The notion has a certain romantic appeal, but the lifestyle passed 30 or
40
years ago. The family farm is today a creature of Madison Avenue used
almost
entirely in defense of large agribusinesses.

Michigan is still small farm based...as are several other states...

We still have a smattering of tiny, family farms here, too, especially among
the Amish. But most, by far, are monstrous corporate farms encompassing
thousands of acres. I'd be surprised if the little farms comprise 10% of
the gross agricultural product of Indiana.

Max