US ports... now housing prices
 

Don't joke. I'm just getting over the Feel-like-bird-crap flu.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Capt. JG wrote:
I think you're talking about Prop 13.



He's got it confused with Area 51

I've been afflicted with avian flu H5N1.

Max

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

My jeep has 125K and runs fine.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:26:56 -0500, "Scotty" said:

What year? My '91 Explorer, with 110K on runs fine.

Hey, so does my '89 Acclaim. But it's only got 74K on it.

US ports... now housing prices
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Clue: it happens *everywhere* from time to time. Supply and demand are in
a constant state of seeking equilibrium.


Maxprop wrote:
Viewed pedantically, yes--that's true. From a more temporal viewpoint,
the hot real estate markets are where the term is being bandied about
most frequently. I doubt seriously if the supply and demand of land in
Bugsquat, NC, is of much concern to anyone beyond the locals.


OTOH if land less than 20 miles from Bugsquat NC is being aggressively
marketed to outsiders at huge prices, then all three parties (Bugsquat
natives, outside buyers, and sellers) all have an interest in the
situation.

Awfully big *if.*

I'm sure this makes you angry, since you are one of the outsiders who
bought high-priced land less than a stone's throw from Bugsquat.

Angry? Surely you jest. I bought when Bugsquat was cheap. It ain't any
more.


Especially those banks who've lent money on interest-only, nothing down
loans. But ultimately they tend to make out okay. They just hold the
repo'd property until the next RE boom takes the prices higher.

It's that long-term thing again. And banks do fold from time to time....
or get bailed out by the taxpayer.

Do a little research and see how many banks in the areas I mentioned (SF,
Chicago, Miami) have folded in the past 25 years. Lots of mergers,
acquisitions, takeovers, but damn few failures.

Before sticking your thumbs behind your suspenders and looking smug, you
might wish to check out the history of RE values in San Francisco, for
example. The net price trend there has outstripped inflation manifold
for the past quarter century and shows no signs of slowing. Same in the
other two markets I mentioned. No one is talking generalities here, so
save the homespun economics lesson for your neighborhood kids. Bore
them, not us.

And what is the trend for local wages over the same period, hmm? What is
the overall cost of living relative to other areas?

Chicago--wages haven't come close to staying up with RE values. Income has,
for certain groups of people, however, mostly entrepreneurs. Cost of living
(exclusive of home ownership/renting) has remained relatively on par with
the rest of the country. The cost of living index is only a few tenths of a
point higher on average in Chicago than it is in South Bend, IN, with
shelter costs removed from the equation. Add shelter expense and it's a
whole different story.


As long as it is a desirable place to live, real estate will do well. When
does that trend reverse?

I think I asked first, since you implied that RE did not always sustain an
upward trend over the long haul.

You mean like land values in the impoverished regions of NC, which
encompass about 80% of the state?


??

You don't know much about current economic trends, do you. NC is actually
doing pretty well, relatively. And we appreciate the influx of money for
swamp land, thank you.

NC is doing relatively well--I'm well aware of that, being a land owner
there and keeping up with such matters. But there is a dichotomy of
substantial proportions between the highly prosperous urban areas, such as
Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte, etc. and the outlying rural areas where poverty
is and has been continuous for decades. Subtract the urban factor and you
have a typically impoverished deep south state. As for us tidewater (we
prefer that to swamp land, thank you kindly) types, we're crying all the way
to the bank.

If you think that long term trends are *always* up, immutably &
indubitably, then I have a great investment for you in Acme Buggy Whip Co
stock.


Get with the program, Doug. Who's talking about stock?

I am. Aren't you paying attention?

The value of a stock is tied to the productivity & profitability of the
company, which in turn is tied to the wages & benefits it can offer it's
employees, which is tied to what those employees can pay for local real
estate.

LOL. We're definitely not on the same page here. Miami and San Francisco
RE, for example, is hardly tied to local employee wages. For an eye-opener,
see who owns slightly less than half the high-priced RE is the Bay Area
these days. Let me help you--Chinese money (have you been in on the trade
imbalance thread elsewhere?) is buying up property and driving the values up
at a greater rate than ever before. Yes, there are a lot of workers in the
Bay Area, and many of them own property, but they aren't the driving force
behind the RE boom there. It's investors, both Chinese and American, but
predominantly Chinese, Japanese, and other Southeast Asians.

...And I'm not talking about RE in Buggy Whip, NC, either. I'm talking
about San Francisco, Miami, and Chicago, like I stated in the first place
when you rudely had to open mouth-insert foot and proclaim, while beating
your chest as you are wont to do regularly, that the phenomenon I was
describing happened in ****kick, NC, too.

It's also happening in a number of other places. Maybe you'd rather
pretend that only city slickers like yourself (who somehow can't seem to
follow a topic, and pay money for swampland) can understand?

Of course it's happening elsewhere, but not anywhere near the same rate as
in the places mentioned. My property in Oriental has tripled in value since
Jan. '04. Waterfront property in Miami has quadrupled in that same period.
Same along Chesapeake Bay. And for the record, Oriental is hardly swamp
land. The Neuse River has deposited soil at its mouth for centuries. No
one filled swamps to create my land. Next you're going to tell me that
someone is planning to backfill the sound to create more development land
all the way to the barrier islands (Outer Banks, for those who are curious).
I think you're envious of those of us who bought when the prices were
reasonable. Or perhaps your a xenophobe who hates any outsiders moving to
his precious state. Get over it.

... But as long as you raised the point, can you show me that the Dow
Jones Industrials average is lower now than, say 20 years ago? Or 50
years.

Easy enough to look it up. There have been long periods when the stock
marcket indexes were flat or downward.

Doug--you really need to learn to comprehend what you read. Go back and
read my original post. You'll note that I never implied there weren't
cyclical trends. In fact I stated such trends were the case in SF RE. I
said "ultimately" the market in RE is always up--that would be *over the
long haul.* I'll ask again--show me any state where RE values are lower
today than 20 or 50 years ago. Same with the Dow.



How about real estate in general--can you show me any state in the
country where RE values are lower than they were 20 or 50 years ago?

You have missed the point. Is the value higher or lower *relative to
what*?

You've lost this argument, haven't you. You're grasping at straws. Are you
one of those guys who needs a definition for the word "is?" Higher means
higher, realtive to the previous numbers. Even adjusted for inflation, the
numbers are substantially higher.


... You really should give your statements some thought before citing
something your Econ 101 professor told you years ago.


Maybe I see what's irritating you. Did you flunk Econ 101? Or maybe a cute
girl in that class turned you down for date?

Sorry to bring up painful memories.

I aced it, and she went out with me. She was the grad student TA. g

Gee this thread has come a long way. Started out at the ports & worked
it's way inland, I guess.


That surprises you? Are you The Thread Nazi, the one who demands that
threads remain on track in Usenet?


No, I just give them a title which actually reflects what is being talked
about.

Thanks, but I suspect we'll do fine without your titles. We all seem to be
able to identify the obvious.

Max

US ports... now housing prices
 

"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote:


How about real estate in general--can you show me any state in the
country
where RE values are lower than they were 20 or 50 years ago?

I'll bet there are lots of places along Rte 66, (after adjustment for
inflation).

But as you certainly noted, I said "any state," not just a few spots or
locales. For example, when the oil shale fiasco hit the skids, the towns
that grew up around the proposed strip mines died completely. You could buy
a $60K house there for 10% of the original unimproved land cost. There are
some areas in the Upper Peninsula in Michigan where the copper mines have
shut down and homes are on the block for a fraction of their build costs.
But net RE values in Michigan have continued to escalate with only minor
burbles in the upward curve. Adjusted for inflation, the aggregate land
values in Michigan are still ahead of the curve.

Max

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:57:00 GMT, Mys Terry
said:

It's bad enough you pass on bogus
info, but info not valid for over 40 years???


You have yet to prove that what I said was invalid for even 40 minutes.

What source confirms your claim that VT has more cows than people?

He's not worth a debate, Dave. Binary Bill, aka MysTerry, is little more
than an uninformed agitator. You're attempting a logical discussion with
him. It's unlikely he'll do more than engage in personal attacks.

Max

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

Dave wrote:
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:45:52 -0500, katy
said:


KIA's do....and it's like riding in a tin can...my sister has one
that she lets her teenagers drive...she won't get into it unless
there's absolutely no choice becasue she says it aggravates her
arthritis!


That sounds like serious mechanical breakdown.

Yeah...my sis's not doing too well....

US ports... now housing prices
 

Maxprop wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message
.. .

Capt. JG wrote:

I think you're talking about Prop 13.



He's got it confused with Area 51


I've been afflicted with avian flu H5N1.

Max


I always knew you were bird-brained ; P

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 04:50:54 GMT, "Maxprop" said:

The US is capable
of doing either, or both. But labor is going to have to recognize some
major realignment, along with top-heavy industry. The $30 per hour jobs
are
vanishing faster than spotted owls, and until organized labor acknowledges
that low-paying jobs are better than NO jobs, the situation will
exacerbate.

I think you're fighting yesterday's battle that's already been lost. We
probably have no business trying to compete in the manufacture of goods
that
have a major labor component.

I admit I probably haven't faced up to the reality of it, but I'd have to
agree. Wishful thinking won't correct the issue.

I'm more concerned with the country's
increased lack of competitiveness in the better-paying services and
software
sectors.

No doubt we are doomed to repeat earlier mistakes. And it doesn't help when
we incur the costs of development for higher-tech products and services,
only to have them pirated and sold for pennies on the dollar by our "most
favored nation" trading partners.

Max

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
He must not live in a very good neighborhood. :-) That's cheap for SF
these days. Well, not cheap, but not the top of the market either.

It's a rather modest SF upper five in what used to be called Inner Sunset,
but now seems to be referred to as Golden Gate Heights. It's that area just
west of Mt. Sutro, but on the upslope toward the Pacific. He lives on 10th
Avenue, between Moraga and Noriega. Nice, quiet neighborhood, but the homes
slightly higher on the hill above him sell for double or triple what his
place would bring. And not far away, St. Francis Wood brings $2 million
plus, average. His next door neighbor died this past December, and his
house sold for just over $900K. The house was slightly larger than my
brother's place, but not as nice internally or externally. My brother and
his wife did a $150K remodeling upgrade to the kitchen and bath two years
ago. The place is gorgeous. And yes, it's toward the lower end of the SF
RE market.

Max

US ports turned over to Arabs?
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

My daughter and son-in-law bought a Ford Explorer about 8
years back. The
engine, which they properly and carefully maintained via
company maintenance
schedules, gave up after 60K miles--failed main bearings.
Ford offered to
pay less than $1000 toward the purchase of a new engine.
The kids scrapped
the vehicle. Ford now tops their "never again" list.


What year? My '91 Explorer, with 110K on runs fine.

'98. Can ya believe it? They changed the oil every 3K miles, got all the
routine maintenance professionally done, and the bearings began to get noisy
at 56K miles. Gone at 60K. Ford admitted it was a defect, but since the
vehicle was out of warranty, they were unwilling to put much into it. They
said they "might" be willing to contribute about $900 toward a new short
block, but the dealership said, "I wouldn't count on that. They've made
such promises before and left the owners high and dry."

Max