In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:1Q%Lf.5321$M52.3777@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

This discussion is so amusing as to be comical. Do you honestly believe
a tiny broken wine bottle would have the same impact as an open Swiss
Army knife?

Damn Rights it would..... I know, I've actually been on the receiving
end of a fight where my opponent resorted to a broken bottle.

Now you are really getting amusing, Mooron. Do you honestly expect me to
believe that you would be intimidated by someone wielding a broken 2oz.
airline booze bottle?

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Indeed, Max. You are, indeed, wrong and everyone here knows it. I
wasn't referring to those little 2 oz spirits bottles. I guess you
don't drink wine and/or travel on crappy airlines.

Keep digging a deeper hole. Oz is an ex-cop and I believe Mooron WRT
fighting experience far more than I believe you. As for me, I have no
'hands-on' experience, but I know what you can fashion from a broken
bottle, and unlike a box cutter, it's a weapon with both a cutting edge
*and* stabbing ability sufficient to reach major organs.

I just snipped the rest - irrelevant. You're just flailing about in a
****-poor attempt to avoid admitting the whole airline 'security' caper
is smoke & mirrors, incapable of achieving its stated purpose.

All that was needed was secure doors between the pilot's compartment &
the pax space. Damn, that was real difficult to work out oh, about 30
years ago...........

PDW

Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , a.a.t.
wrote:


On Sat. Feb. 18, 2006, 3:41pm (PST+19)
OzOne posted:

".......Flew in from that sewer called Los Angeles......"


and on Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 10:17am (PST + 19)
OzOne posted:

"..Unfortunately, you also have sewers like Los Angeles........"


Mr. Oz, I am respectfully asking if you would kindly explain what causes
you to describe Los Angeles in such terms? Granted, as every mega
metropolis, Los Angeles has it's ugly areas, and granted, Los Angeles
is not like our European capitals with gracious architecture and tree
lined boulevards. However..........

Just what areas of Los Angeles were you in? And perhaps you were
limited in time and did not have the time to see areas that would not
cause you to compare them to effluvia?

I really would appreciate your answer, as your reaction is not the
usual one that I hear from other visitors to Los Angeles.

Thanks.........a.a.t.


I'm not Oz but I can answer in 3 letters - LAX.

That's what international visitors experience as their entrance to LA.
Worse than a 3rd World airport in function and service.

PDW

L.A. is a put. One of our kids lives in N. Hollywood. We wish he
didn't.

OzOne wrote in message news

Jesus, I've had two acquaintances killed by broken bottles...nonewith
a knife!

I think I saw that on the news a while back--two drunks staggered out of a
bar and fell on their bottles, breaking them, stabbing them both in the
heart. Most unfortunate. And oh yeah--my name is Max, but you can call me
Jesus if it suits ya.

Max

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news_iMf.7503$vC4.2309@clgrps12...

"Maxprop" wrote in message
Now you are really getting amusing, Mooron. Do you honestly expect me to
believe that you would be intimidated by someone wielding a broken 2oz.
airline booze bottle?

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Try reading for comprehension and pay attention to the "half litre" part
Max. There are no 2 oz bottles of wine.

Okay, now tell me--which airline carries wine bottles that size?????

All airlines that serve wine have 1/2 litre bottles..... none have 2 oz
bottles.

You need to pick your fighting companions more carefully, then. I'll
fight the bottle-wielder any day over one with a knife. A knife can
inflict permanent and/or fatal damage. I'm unaware of much concern over
the deaths caused by broken wine bottles. If they were really as lethal
as you seem to imply, the liberals would be screaming for banning glass
wine and liquor bottles.

Now you are sounding like Bobsprit on sailing..... you have no idea of
the damage a broken bottle will inflict Max... I do! I assure you the
damage is a lot worse than a pen knife or even a standard pocket knife. A
broken bottle can inflict fatal wounds much more readily than a small
blade. Liberals drink wine.... why they haven't insisted on plastic
bottles probably follows the logic of retinal scans and confiscation of
nail clippers from old ladies with walkers.

Damn right. It's sure as hell time we outlawed those damned half-liter wine
bottles before we find ourselves having to step over the dead in the
streets. Oh yeah, I know the neocons are going to say "wine bottles don't
kill people--winos kill people."


... and Max... I don't pick fighting companions.

They pick you? Hell, I took you for the last one to get picked for any
"sport."



The al Qaeda hijackers on 9/11 carried box cutters rather than Swiss Army
knives. They do lock in the open position, but they don't have much
ability to penetrate. I'd take the Swiss Army knife as my personal
weapon over the bottle (snicker) or the box cutter any day. Then again I
know how to fight with a knife, locked blade or no. Give me a tanto and
you'll not defeat me with anything short of a gun.

Oh cripes.... here we go... another American Suburban Superman... you are
now not only grasping straws... but talking through your hat. You have
never been in a knife fight...

Good thing for any conceivable opponent.

and obviously never faced an opponent wielding a broken bottle.

Actually I have.

I have scars from encounters like that Max. The broken bottle was by far
much worse than the knife..... it's the reason I no longer carry a blade
to the bar.

Good point. Why carry a blade when you can just break a bottle. I see.

Seriously, however, we aren't talking about scars, rather your life.

Tantos.... are decorative knives. They have no use in real life.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahaha.

They were designed for urban cowboys such as yourself who fancy themselves
a closet Chuck Norris... but have no real life experience with such
situations.

Your cluelessness is uncanny, Mooron. Proficient in the use of the daito
(you probably call this a katana), the wakizashi, and the tanto, I can
assure you that you are mistaken. I studied with two of the four top
swordsmen in the US for 5 years while attending college--a form of
recreation and a self-imposed method of keeping myself out of trouble.
While most people regard the tanto as the instrument of hara-kiri, it is
among the best defensive weapons in existence, mostly due to its diminutive
length and light weight. It's no daito, but it is lethal. The Samurai used
them for more than just committing sepuchu, or for decoration. Used
properly, only a gun-weilding opponent can defeat a combatant with a tanto.
For the untrained, it's no more valuable than a common jackknife.

Having owned a "Tanto Blade" because I collect knives as a hobby, I know
for a fact that piercing damage and slashing damage is no better than a
common hunting knife of Bowie design.

So, I suppose you also believe that the daito has no greater effectiveness
than a broadsword??? The tanto is not a point-penetrating blade. You
really know nothing about it, do ya?

They offer no more advantage in combat than a common good blade.

Why do you think the blade is thin, narrow, very hard, and slightly curved?
Do you think that's an aesthetic affectation? You really know nothing about
the Samurai weapons, do ya?

Finally... you would do exactly what everyone does when faced with an
attack from someone wielding a broken bottle at a bar fight... fend off
and look for an escape route.

Yes, I would, primarily because I have absolutely no desire to kill anyone,
or even engage in a fight, if it can be avoided in any way. That is
precisely how I was trained. Cornered, however, I'd have no choice but to
fight. And I'd likely dispatch the bottle-wielder without incuring so much
as a scratch. That, too, is how I was trained. You, OTOH, might do well to
urinate in your pants--tends to put off would-be bottle-wielding attackers
somewhat.

...and Max.... you do not in any way conceivable ..."know how to fight". I
can tell that in a minute. You are a blowhard with no experience in
violence. I'm basing that on years of martial arts training and actual
street fighting experience. You talk the talk but can't walk the walk.
There may be some on this group who have had experience with such
matters... but neither you nor Bobsprit ever have... that's for certain.
It's not your "movie of the week on Spike channel" ... real fights are
very quick, usually dealing a majority of the damage within the first few
seconds of engagement and rarely go beyond 2 or 3 minutes. Fancy "Kung Fu"
moves are useless..... there is no choreography in a bar fight.

Believe what you will. Being ignorant is no crime, even in Canada.

Max

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:1Q%Lf.5321$M52.3777@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

This discussion is so amusing as to be comical. Do you honestly
believe
a tiny broken wine bottle would have the same impact as an open Swiss
Army knife?

Damn Rights it would..... I know, I've actually been on the receiving
end of a fight where my opponent resorted to a broken bottle.

Now you are really getting amusing, Mooron. Do you honestly expect me to
believe that you would be intimidated by someone wielding a broken 2oz.
airline booze bottle?

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Indeed, Max. You are, indeed, wrong and everyone here knows it. I
wasn't referring to those little 2 oz spirits bottles. I guess you
don't drink wine and/or travel on crappy airlines.

No, I don't drink the bilgewater wine served on airplanes. I do see the
little wine bottles, however, and they aren't much bigger than the 2oz.
liquour bottles--maybe 6 oz. max. Mooron says he sees half liter bottles on
planes. I don't believe I've ever seen half liter bottles--half bottles
(375 ml.) yes, but half liter? Never heard of 'em. And I've never seen
half bottles on a plane. Only the peewee ones.


Keep digging a deeper hole. Oz is an ex-cop and I believe Mooron WRT
fighting experience far more than I believe you.

And why is that? Because he's supportive of your argument? Because he's
Canadian, not American? Your rationale for assessing credibility
demonstrates a lack of knowledge and more than a bit of prejudice, methinks.
To your credit, I've had very little fighting experience--mostly parking lot
brawls after drinking too much in college. But I have had fairly extensive
training that neither you nor he knows anything about (at least prior to my
last post to him in this thread). Your decree that you believe him more
than me is not borne of knowledge, rather of prejudice.

As for me, I have no
'hands-on' experience, but I know what you can fashion from a broken
bottle, and unlike a box cutter, it's a weapon with both a cutting edge
*and* stabbing ability sufficient to reach major organs.

You should have quit with the "I have no hands-on experience." Your last
statement is redundant.

I just snipped the rest - irrelevant. You're just flailing about in a
****-poor attempt to avoid admitting the whole airline 'security' caper
is smoke & mirrors, incapable of achieving its stated purpose.

No, I admitted it may be just that. I also acknowledge that it *may* be
effective and working as intended. The evidence sides with the latter, but
no one really knows for sure. Certainly you, Mooron, and Ozzy don't. Until
another plane is hijacked, it's anyone's guess. You, however, make blanket
statements with no supporting evidence whatsoever. Your antipathy toward
the US is your only basis for making such statements, and that shows your
ignorance. If another four planes had been hijacked subsequent to 9/11,
your opinion would bear some credibility. As it is, your opinion is just
that--an unsupported opinion.


All that was needed was secure doors between the pilot's compartment &
the pax space. Damn, that was real difficult to work out oh, about 30
years ago...........

I can't believe I'm reading this from a purportedly intelligent human. So
such a secure cockpit access door would stop a flight crew from acceding to
hijackers' demands if they were carrying a bomb? Are you implying that
hijackers would simply give up if they couldn't gain access to the cockpit.
(Oh ****, Achmed, the pilot won't let us in, and the door is locked. Let's
give the bomb and our guns to the flight attendants and maybe they'll let us
off with a slap on the wrist.") The key to preventing a repeat of 9/11 is
to prevent the hijacking in the first place.

While I'm digging the hole you seem to think I am, you might notice the
self-imposed 20' deep well you're currently standing in, Pete.


Max

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:FAjMf.7505$vC4.4558@clgrps12...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

A complete set of my prints have been on file with the local, state, and
fedral government for decades. And they've never been used for anything.
I have nothing to hide, and as long as that remains the case, that info
just sits there, full of no sound or fury, signifying nothing. You are
truly paranoid. Do you honestly believe that your prints and retinal
scans will be lying one someone's desktop and pulled up now and then and
examined? "Hmm, John, look here at this Mooron fellow. These prints
looks awfully suspicious. Maybe we'd better do some further
investigating of this guy. I think he may be al Qaeda . . ." In fact
any prints taken at the US/Canadian border will end up in an archive,
lost and buried. Most won't even get put on the fingerprint database
servers at the FBI, there will simply be too many of them.

Wow..... you must be the poster boy for "Resistance is Futile... you will
be Assimilated". The obedient American Citizen. I commend you for your
abject acquiessence. Selection of "Hiding within the Masses" is a viable
method. Compliance to negate red flagging due to volume isn't the strategy
I would employ... but you seem comfortable with it.

Very. As I said, I have nothing to hide. You, OTOH, must have some serious
closet skeletons lurking about.


Not in the least. I couldn't care less. This entire debate has been a
mildly amusing entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. To believe
otherwise would be arrogant of you--and you certainly don't want to be
viewed as arrogant, now do you? Fact is, Mooron, only you and Ozzy can
debate with something resembling intelligence and cogent arguments. This
is recreation only. Sorry if I've offended you buy informing you that I
really don't give a rat's posterior if you choose to stand on the border
and **** on our country.

I'm not offended.... why should I be? As you pointed out... it's a
debate. I've never considered "Arrogance" as a bad thing.

My father once told me that arrogance is okay if you've got something
substantive to back it up. Do you? Please excuse me if I choose not to
take your word for it.

You do however give a "rat's ass"... that is obvious.

Nope. Frankly I think Scotty summed it up best--our border security has
been successful: it's keeping Mooron out. g

My position brings into question your eager compliance to your
government's demands. You have in effect convinced yourself that a total
invasion of your privacy is the only option to keep the dogs at bay. The
problem is that what you view as ****ing on your country ... is in effect
my ability to enact my freedom of choice... something your country fought
hard and long to secure... only to have it systematically removed, little
by little, without question form you at all. This is the point I don't
understand.

It's simple, really. I haven't surrendered any of my freedoms. To the
contrary, by being fingerprinted every three years, I can exercise my right
to carry a concealed firearm. And having my prints on file with the FBI and
everyone on down is hardly "a total invasion of (my) privacy." In fact,
posting one's own name on this NG is surrendering far more privacy than any
fingerprinting. I value my privacy, and I'm not pleased with some of the
turns this country is taking, such as the Supreme Court decision that allows
taking anyone's private property under the rules of eminent domain in order
to allow a private enterprise to build a new shopping center there. Or the
unauthorized NSA wiretapping bull****. And those are just the tip of the
iceberg. At least we know about such things. How many such things exist in
Canada of which you simply have no knowledge? I'm betting there are plenty.

That would actually suffice as a reasonable definition of indignation.

You'd best look up the definition of indignation..... then research "non
compliance".... it might indicate where you have gone so wrong and why I
am so right.

Then check your Webster's for a definition of "delusional," which is a
rather apt description of your current situation.


Good for you, Mooron. Everyone has a right to righteous indignation.
Even you.

You'll need better bait than that Max...... :-P


Since most countries eventually and ultimately emulate the security
procedures instituted in the US, you may discover fewer and fewer
countries where such identity records aren't accumulated. You may just
achieve that isolationist status yet.

OMG.... what a wonderful impression of an "Ugly American"!!! Let's see
what could I add.... Oh Yeah!.... the only way the USA undertakes
geography is by invasion. I bet hardly anyone in the USA knew where either
Vietnam or Iraq was until you launched a military action in those
regions...

Vietnam was having a rather nice little war when we became involved and
took over for the French at the behest of NATO. And why haven't you
mentioned Kosovo or Bosnia? Could it be because we did something good and
constructive there when no one else chose to do so? Why haven't you
mentioned our liberation of Panama? Did you forget about that, or don't you
know where Panama is? Why haven't you mentioned the Falkland Islands? Is
it because you have no bitch with Britain? And how about Spain, the Dutch,
and the Brits, who for centuries colonized all over the world via the
bloodshed method?

congrats.... in another hundred years and 500 thousand American lives...
you'll be at the Grade 4 level of geographic knowledge exibited by most
other nations!

At least we know where Canada is, and we've done something about it. I've
advocated invasion, but no one's listening to me.


I hear Damascus is lovely this time of year. g

I would be welcomed in Damascus with either a Belgian or Canadian Flag....
what kind of reception would you expect there? Oh Wait... your comment
explains that already.

Lovely place--can't wait to go. And I'd be welcome there as well.
Americans travel within Syria, Iran, and Pakistan daily. That probably
upsets you something awful, dunnit?

Enough of this. You're ****ed off, and it's becoming too long to be
entertaining. Have the last word, if you must.

Max

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 05:54:58 GMT, "Maxprop"

Who was talking about war/wars?


Semantics. Call it what you will--we are involved in a war.
Ummm yeah, you are,

So what were you talking about?

But the US is in it's current position for many reasons.
Have a look at the report by the Corps of Engineers and it's forecasts
for New Orleans, LA and Sacramento for starters...then look at what
has been done.
Look at where the dollars have gone..now try and figure out where that
Govt you despise is going to generate that cash....
Yep you guessed it YOU!!!! and just how much juice is left in that
lemon.

You're right on, of course, but this is far from new territory for us.
We've survived worse budgetary debacles. We'll survive this one.

P'shaw. What ours spends on blowing things up is a mere drop in the pork
barrel compared with domestic waste.

Look again.....can you survive fighting wars with very expensive high
tech weapons against people who do quite well with a little dynamite
or fertilizer.

Ultimately, yes. Anyone pushed into a corner, whether a financial one or a
military one, resorts to pulling out the stops to stay alive. All the
religious types have predicted for centuries that the end of the world will
originate in a conflict in the Middle East. Do they know something we
don't? Ever see the movie "On the Beach?" 1960s, situated, at least
partly, in Australia. Scary stuff, and not really so far-fetched.

Max

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 05:59:19 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 05:48:58 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


What was the percentage of the US population who actually voted?

Rather small, compared with that percentage of Iraqi citizens that voted
in
their first general election.

Ans waht has that got to do with your situation?

You're so combative that you can't recognize when I'm supporting your point
of view.


What percentage of those voters re elected the monkey?

Roughly half. The other half voted for the jackass.

Jackass has some use..Monkey consumes bananas

Jackass = monkey = jackass. No difference, despite what you choose to
delude yourself into believing. They both spend, tax, and waste, and tell
everyone it's for their own good.

Max

OzOne wrote in message ...

Jesus Max, can you explain why there were no attacks on US soil before
WTC?
There was no HS then1?

I thought we covered this already. The WTC *was* attacked several years
prior 2001. And planes were hijacked periodically throughout the period
from the 1960s on. There have been no hijackings since. Can you explain
that?


Maybe they're just a little busy recruiting,
Maybe they're just bringing in tiny bits of dirty bombs in containers,
Heck, maybe they're brining in weapons grade uranium concealed INSIDE
the bodies of sacrificial couriers.....
Smoke and mirrors Max...if they want to get around it they will.

Maybe you are jousting at windmills. Maybe al Qaeda has been frustrated by
our security measures since 9/11. Maybe they don't have the funding, or
can't control the funding, thanks to the watchdogs in every bank in every
country throughout the free world.

Personally I agree with you--they will accomplish something in the future.
But that's just an opinion, unsupported by evidence. And so is yours.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote
Max's memory is has greater longevity and is far less selective than you'd
like to believe. What you have conveniently overlooked is that your analogy
is entirely inappropriate for several reasons: 1) Our enemy (USSR) was
easily identified and nicely compartmentalized. Al Qaeda is neither. .....

On the contrary, while al Qaeda - Islamic Extremism - is more spread out it is
just as easily identified and dealt with.

Dealing with the Soviet missle threat was simple--MAD, or mutual assured
destruction, kept both sides from pushing buttons for almost half a century.
We have no such arrangement with Islamist terrorists.

The Soviets were rational, religious zealots are not, so one must deal with them
more directly. Saddam was doing an excellent job of that in Iraq - he simply
killed them out of hand! In the short term we should follow his example rather
than making life harder for our own people. In the long term we must replace
"schools" that teach radical Islamists to kill "infidels" with moderate schools
that teach the three R's - right after we hang the mullahs running them.

Our war with terrorists is more like a war against rodents. A population of
rodents can be virtually invisible, but inflicting constant and persistent
damage. You can't threaten rodents, and you can't simply aim a bunch of
missles at them and expect them to cease and desist. You take the war to
them, with traps, poisons, and by blocking their entry into your zone of
occupation. ....

True, but as you have pointed out there is NO effective way to block their
entrance, so we'll have to accept a few rats in the house til they can be killed
while we take the war to them with traps, poisons and more. I gotta believe that
a few flame-throwing tanks would help but I'm an amateur - we otta consult
Saddam and Chemical Aly.