"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...

Boy are you ever deluded. Al Qaeda could own us for very little money and
without any great technology. They don't need to hijack any airplanes,
subvert
any ports or bring down any buildings. All they need to do is have a few
knuckleheads figure out some rural school bus routes and start randomly
planting
easily obtainable/stealable construction explosives in drainage culverts
under
roads in scattered spots all over the country to blow up a few busloads of
little kids. You think they wouldn't? I'm completely surprised they
haven't.
We'd have a very hard time catching them all, and there is no way we could
guard
against something like that from becoming essentially an everyday
occurance.

Sounds like you've got a game plan for al Qaeda all figured out. Too bad
for them they don't consult you, huh? You are the deluded one. Al Qaeda no
doubt has examined every possible way to outrage Americans by killing,
maiming, destroying, or mass anhilating. And they've not done anything.
There *is* a reason for that. You have no answers of any sort, either in
the form of an explanation of why they've not done anything beyond 9/11, or
how to prevent them from committing future acts of violence against
Americans. Beyond being a chronic whiner, your rhetoric is meaningless.

I also don't know of anyone other than you and George Bush, who is foolish
enough to think we are in any measure safer flying now than we were prior
to
9/11

We are safer, if not completely. Again you have no evidence to support your
claim that we are no safer. My evidence is that no airplanes have been
hijacked in 4 1/2 years. My evidence is that it is literally impossible to
board domestic and overseas flights in this country with explosives or
weapons. There is absolutely no reason to believe that al Qaeda or some
other Islamist terror group would not have done something during that period
were they able to do so.

Their rules are a lot different than your rules.

And reality is a lot different that your delusional beliefs, distorted by
your hatred of Bush. I don't like him either, but at least I'm objective
enough to examine things logically and dispassionately.

Max

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:1Q%Lf.5321$M52.3777@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

This discussion is so amusing as to be comical. Do you honestly believe
a tiny broken wine bottle would have the same impact as an open Swiss
Army knife?

Damn Rights it would..... I know, I've actually been on the receiving
end of a fight where my opponent resorted to a broken bottle.

Now you are really getting amusing, Mooron. Do you honestly expect me to
believe that you would be intimidated by someone wielding a broken 2oz.
airline booze bottle?

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

I've also been in a knife fight. The cutting edge of a broken half litre
wine bottle

Okay, now tell me--which airline carries wine bottles that size?????

will do ten times the damage with half the effort to four times the amount
of people than a fricken swiss army knife with no locking blade!!

You need to pick your fighting companions more carefully, then. I'll fight
the bottle-wielder any day over one with a knife. A knife can inflict
permanent and/or fatal damage. I'm unaware of much concern over the deaths
caused by broken wine bottles. If they were really as lethal as you seem to
imply, the liberals would be screaming for banning glass wine and liquor
bottles.

The al Qaeda hijackers on 9/11 carried box cutters rather than Swiss Army
knives. They do lock in the open position, but they don't have much ability
to penetrate. I'd take the Swiss Army knife as my personal weapon over the
bottle (snicker) or the box cutter any day. Then again I know how to fight
with a knife, locked blade or no. Give me a tanto and you'll not defeat me
with anything short of a gun.

Max

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:is%Lf.5313$M52.51@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

I get fingerprinted every three years in order to obtain a firearms carry
permit. BFD--I have nothing to hide. It makes my fingers black and the
cleanup is a PITA, but hardly worth fretting over. It may be an
infringement on my privacy and personal freedom, but it is what I have to
do to accomplish my goal, so I do it without bitching. To refuse to do
so would mean that I am denied my permit to carry. That would affect
me--not those who have instigated the policies.

Good Grief!!... I have never been fingerprinted. I have a restricted
weapons permit, I have an airside access permit, I have a clean
record..... having something to hide isn't the issue here Max.....
having information about me stored within a system as displayed by the US
government is. I have the option not to have that information gathered.
Despite our idiotic gunlaws in Canada.... I don't require a retinal scan
nor fingerprinting to obtain restricted weapons permit.

A complete set of my prints have been on file with the local, state, and
fedral government for decades. And they've never been used for anything. I
have nothing to hide, and as long as that remains the case, that info just
sits there, full of no sound or fury, signifying nothing. You are truly
paranoid. Do you honestly believe that your prints and retinal scans will
be lying one someone's desktop and pulled up now and then and examined?
"Hmm, John, look here at this Mooron fellow. These prints looks awfully
suspicious. Maybe we'd better do some further investigating of this guy. I
think he may be al Qaeda . . ." In fact any prints taken at the US/Canadian
border will end up in an archive, lost and buried. Most won't even get put
on the fingerprint database servers at the FBI, there will simply be too
many of them.

And no, you don't offend my national pride, or any such silly, fallacious
conclusion you may concoct, in the least. My point is simply that your
indignation is placing limits on your ability to move about the world.
It has no effect whatever upon me or my countrymen. You're more than
welcome to stand on your principles and avoid the US. We don't care in
the slightest.

Bull****.... it's obvious it offends you.

Not in the least. I couldn't care less. This entire debate has been a
mildly amusing entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. To believe
otherwise would be arrogant of you--and you certainly don't want to be
viewed as arrogant, now do you? Fact is, Mooron, only you and Ozzy can
debate with something resembling intelligence and cogent arguments. This is
recreation only. Sorry if I've offended you buy informing you that I really
don't give a rat's posterior if you choose to stand on the border and ****
on our country.

It's not indignation on my part Max.... it's merely refusal to comply with
ridiculous demands.

That would actually suffice as a reasonable definition of indignation.

We are all limited as to our ability to "move about the world"... make no
mistake regarding that fact. Nonetheless... my not having access to the
USA in no way impedes my ability to travel to the remaining 80% of the
countries on this planet that are available to me.
...and Max, I most certainly will stand on my principals.

Good for you, Mooron. Everyone has a right to righteous indignation. Even
you.

I guess, then, that you'll not be going anywhere a passport is necessary,
eh?

You're suffering a brain fart there aren't you Max.... I have a passport
and can travel to the majority of the countries on this planet....
which do not require retinal scans and fingerprinting.

Since most countries eventually and ultimately emulate the security
procedures instituted in the US, you may discover fewer and fewer countries
where such identity records aren't accumulated. You may just achieve that
isolationist status yet.

I currently have an EEC Passport, microchipped and a Canadian Permanent
Resident Card as well as 2 entry visas to the USA labelled "
permanent.indefinite for business or pleasure" . I'm welcome almost
everywhere I choose to go.

I hear Damascus is lovely this time of year. g

Max

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 05:41:47 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


Don't be confused, I am and never have been anti American..though I
tended toward that when the American people re elected the guy who has
put the US in a position from which it is unlikely to recover.

I think you're being melodramatic, Ozzy. W has left us with a major
cluster****, and we won't be finding our way clear of it for some
time--possibly years. But time heals everything. WWI and WWII both came
to
an end, and so will this fiasco. People tire of conflicts, especially
old,
threadbare ones. The day will come when no one has the energy or the will
to continue to fight this war, and then it will disappear. Doomspeakers
said the same thing about Vietnam, but today American soldiers, who fought
there, visit the place and sit down over tea with those they were shooting
at just 25 years earlier.

Who was talking about war/wars?

Semantics. Call it what you will--we are involved in a war.



I am, and have been since Bush was elected, firmly anti US Govt.

Well, you're just a rank novice at it then. There are those of us who've
despised the US government for decades. The line forms at the rear,
around
the corner.

Max

Bwaaahahahhahahahahaaa!
Govt is govt...it's required, it's just that some don't spend such a
high percentage of its income on blowing stuff up.

P'shaw. What ours spends on blowing things up is a mere drop in the pork
barrel compared with domestic waste.

Max

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 05:48:58 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


What was the percentage of the US population who actually voted?

Rather small, compared with that percentage of Iraqi citizens that voted in
their first general election.

What percentage of those voters re elected the monkey?

Roughly half. The other half voted for the jackass.

Max

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:43:21 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 05:20:56 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:

The line that homeland security is the reason for no more
attacks....What was the reason in all the years prior to 911?

You seem to have conveniently ignored the other, failed al Qaeda attempt
to
level the WTC some years before 9/11.

You're correct of course....FBI did nothing to prevent the attack.
Guess the system works eh?

Whose system? Al Qaeda's? Yeah, that one seems to work. Ours? Nope,
that
one's broken and so far no one seems inclined to fix it.
FBI--CIA--NSA--they all grandstand and do everything they can to take
credit
for successes, all the while racking up more and more failures due to a
complete inability to cooperate and share intel.



Rather nicely confirms my contention that the system is broken, eh?

As long as incompetence and resistance to cooperate is the norm in
Washington--both in politics and in police work/intel--we can expect more
of
the same. I'm watching to see if our new Homeland Security system accrues
a
better track record, but I'm skeptical, human nature being what it is. So
far, so good, but the verdict is still out, of course, on HS.

Max



My point excatly.
Smoke and mirrors...no gain

Except that you've given no explanation why we've not been subjected to
further terrorist violence on these shores since HS was created and
implemented. I don't have the answer, but neither do you. So, until we get
attacked again, HS get the benefit of the doubt. *If* we sustain another
9/11-style attack, then your opinion will be vindicated. If not, your
opinion would appear to be inaccurate. That's not being duped--it's simple
logic.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
Now you are really getting amusing, Mooron. Do you honestly expect me to
believe that you would be intimidated by someone wielding a broken 2oz.
airline booze bottle?

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Try reading for comprehension and pay attention to the "half litre" part
Max. There are no 2 oz bottles of wine.

Okay, now tell me--which airline carries wine bottles that size?????

All airlines that serve wine have 1/2 litre bottles..... none have 2 oz
bottles.

You need to pick your fighting companions more carefully, then. I'll
fight the bottle-wielder any day over one with a knife. A knife can
inflict permanent and/or fatal damage. I'm unaware of much concern over
the deaths caused by broken wine bottles. If they were really as lethal
as you seem to imply, the liberals would be screaming for banning glass
wine and liquor bottles.

Now you are sounding like Bobsprit on sailing..... you have no idea of the
damage a broken bottle will inflict Max... I do! I assure you the damage is
a lot worse than a pen knife or even a standard pocket knife. A broken
bottle can inflict fatal wounds much more readily than a small blade.
Liberals drink wine.... why they haven't insisted on plastic bottles
probably follows the logic of retinal scans and confiscation of nail
clippers from old ladies with walkers.

.... and Max... I don't pick fighting companions.


The al Qaeda hijackers on 9/11 carried box cutters rather than Swiss Army
knives. They do lock in the open position, but they don't have much
ability to penetrate. I'd take the Swiss Army knife as my personal weapon
over the bottle (snicker) or the box cutter any day. Then again I know
how to fight with a knife, locked blade or no. Give me a tanto and you'll
not defeat me with anything short of a gun.

Oh cripes.... here we go... another American Suburban Superman... you are
now not only grasping straws... but talking through your hat. You have never
been in a knife fight... and obviously never faced an opponent wielding a
broken bottle. I have scars from encounters like that Max. The broken bottle
was by far much worse than the knife..... it's the reason I no longer carry
a blade to the bar.

Tantos.... are decorative knives. They have no use in real life. They were
designed for urban cowboys such as yourself who fancy themselves a closet
Chuck Norris... but have no real life experience with such situations.
Having owned a "Tanto Blade" because I collect knives as a hobby, I know for
a fact that piercing damage and slashing damage is no better than a common
hunting knife of Bowie design. They offer no more advantage in combat than a
common good blade. Finally... you would do exactly what everyone does when
faced with an attack from someone wielding a broken bottle at a bar fight...
fend off and look for an escape route.

....and Max.... you do not in any way conceivable ..."know how to fight". I
can tell that in a minute. You are a blowhard with no experience in
violence. I'm basing that on years of martial arts training and actual
street fighting experience. You talk the talk but can't walk the walk. There
may be some on this group who have had experience with such matters... but
neither you nor Bobsprit ever have... that's for certain. It's not your
"movie of the week on Spike channel" ... real fights are very quick, usually
dealing a majority of the damage within the first few seconds of engagement
and rarely go beyond 2 or 3 minutes. Fancy "Kung Fu" moves are useless.....
there is no choreography in a bar fight.

CM

"Maxprop" wrote in message

A complete set of my prints have been on file with the local, state, and
fedral government for decades. And they've never been used for anything.
I have nothing to hide, and as long as that remains the case, that info
just sits there, full of no sound or fury, signifying nothing. You are
truly paranoid. Do you honestly believe that your prints and retinal
scans will be lying one someone's desktop and pulled up now and then and
examined? "Hmm, John, look here at this Mooron fellow. These prints looks
awfully suspicious. Maybe we'd better do some further investigating of
this guy. I think he may be al Qaeda . . ." In fact any prints taken at
the US/Canadian border will end up in an archive, lost and buried. Most
won't even get put on the fingerprint database servers at the FBI, there
will simply be too many of them.

Wow..... you must be the poster boy for "Resistance is Futile... you will
be Assimilated". The obedient American Citizen. I commend you for your
abject acquiessence. Selection of "Hiding within the Masses" is a viable
method. Compliance to negate red flagging due to volume isn't the strategy I
would employ... but you seem comfortable with it.

Not in the least. I couldn't care less. This entire debate has been a
mildly amusing entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. To believe
otherwise would be arrogant of you--and you certainly don't want to be
viewed as arrogant, now do you? Fact is, Mooron, only you and Ozzy can
debate with something resembling intelligence and cogent arguments. This
is recreation only. Sorry if I've offended you buy informing you that I
really don't give a rat's posterior if you choose to stand on the border
and **** on our country.

I'm not offended.... why should I be? As you pointed out... it's a debate.
I've never considered "Arrogance" as a bad thing. You do however give a
"rat's ass"... that is obvious. My position brings into question your eager
compliance to your government's demands. You have in effect convinced
yourself that a total invasion of your privacy is the only option to keep
the dogs at bay. The problem is that what you view as ****ing on your
country ... is in effect my ability to enact my freedom of choice...
something your country fought hard and long to secure... only to have it
systematically removed, little by little, without question form you at all.
This is the point I don't understand.


That would actually suffice as a reasonable definition of indignation.

You'd best look up the definition of indignation..... then research "non
compliance".... it might indicate where you have gone so wrong and why I am
so right.

Good for you, Mooron. Everyone has a right to righteous indignation.
Even you.

You'll need better bait than that Max...... :-P


Since most countries eventually and ultimately emulate the security
procedures instituted in the US, you may discover fewer and fewer
countries where such identity records aren't accumulated. You may just
achieve that isolationist status yet.

OMG.... what a wonderful impression of an "Ugly American"!!! Let's see what
could I add.... Oh Yeah!.... the only way the USA undertakes geography is
by invasion. I bet hardly anyone in the USA knew where either Vietnam or
Iraq was until you launched a military action in those regions...
congrats.... in another hundred years and 500 thousand American lives...
you'll be at the Grade 4 level of geographic knowledge exibited by most
other nations!

I hear Damascus is lovely this time of year. g

I would be welcomed in Damascus with either a Belgian or Canadian Flag....
what kind of reception would you expect there? Oh Wait... your comment
explains that already.

CM

In article , a.a.t.
wrote:

On Sat. Feb. 18, 2006, 3:41pm (PST+19)
OzOne posted:

".......Flew in from that sewer called Los Angeles......"


and on Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 10:17am (PST + 19)
OzOne posted:

"..Unfortunately, you also have sewers like Los Angeles........"


Mr. Oz, I am respectfully asking if you would kindly explain what causes
you to describe Los Angeles in such terms? Granted, as every mega
metropolis, Los Angeles has it's ugly areas, and granted, Los Angeles
is not like our European capitals with gracious architecture and tree
lined boulevards. However..........

Just what areas of Los Angeles were you in? And perhaps you were
limited in time and did not have the time to see areas that would not
cause you to compare them to effluvia?

I really would appreciate your answer, as your reaction is not the
usual one that I hear from other visitors to Los Angeles.

Thanks.........a.a.t.

I'm not Oz but I can answer in 3 letters - LAX.

That's what international visitors experience as their entrance to LA.
Worse than a 3rd World airport in function and service.

PDW

In article et,
Maxprop wrote:

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 05:12:37 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:14:08 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:



Eaxactly my point.
Every non US citizen is subject to the most rigorous scrutiny yet 95%
of containers are left untouched....homeland security is a sham.

Let me play the devil's advocate here for a moment: So we've
established
that examining incoming containers is not feasible. For that reason, is
it
reasonable to simply ignore all other aspects of homeland security that
ARE
feasible, such as clearing individuals for entry?

Max

T's feasible....just look at the number of people employed to check
baggage, people and crdentials at every airport in the US.
Thing is, putting that same number of people into checking containers
has little political advantage because Joe Public won't see the work
being done and be able to wrap himself in that warm fuzzy security
blanket.


Have you ever looked at a shipping container packed full of, say, boxes
with
electronics? There might be literally hundreds or thousands of cardboard
cartons in a single container packed wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling. How
does an inspector check each carton to be sure it contains what the label
specifies? A single carton could contains plastique or the makings of a
dirty bomb. Are you going to open each and every one? Some containers
are
packed with loose items, and would be even more difficult to inspect.
From
a cost effectivity standpoint, it isn't feasible to inspect the contents
of
every container entering this country.


Ever thought that the level of personal inspection has lulled most
passengers into a very false sense of security so they are now not on
the lookout for stuff happening onboard?

I think about it every time I fly. But there is little or nothing the
average passenger can do if he spots something or someone suspicious once
airborne. Getting lulled into a false sense of security has obviously
helped the airlines avoid a plunge into the abyss of financial ruin. Most
of them, anyhow.

If, however, we abandon the personal inspections, what prevents a repeat
of
9/11?

Max


Max that's my point...smoke an mirrors and personal inspections are
there to make Joe Public feel as if there's something happening..where
in fact there is no way of protecting the US against an attack

Joe Public isn't as easily fooled as you might choose to believe. The vast
majority of us are fully aware that the measures currently taken by HS are
but a finger in a 12 foot hole in the dike. I have yet to speak with anyone
who actually believes we are even modestly secure now, thanks to measures
taken.

Most of feel we have a somewhat lessened likelihood of becoming part of an
airborne bomb now.

Hell, Max, all you needed to do *before* was to put decent lockable
doors between the pilot's compartment & the passenger compartment. All
this crap about glass, box knives, knitting needles et al is just that
- crap.

PDW