OzOne wrote in message ...
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 06:15:26 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:31:13 +0000, Peter Wiley
scribbled thusly:


Eaxactly my point.
Every non US citizen is subject to the most rigorous scrutiny yet 95%
of containers are left untouched....homeland security is a sham.

Couldn't agree more.

The real joke here is, after you pass thru the scanners, you can buy
drinks in glass bottles on the inside. And they're worried about Swiss
Army knives and the like?

Security? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa.

PDW

And on the aircraft, you're given bottles of wine, are served from
bottles, can purchase duty free in bottles, and your teeth are not
pulled in the name of security.

I've flown regularly for the past five years--often in first class--and I
have yet to be given a glass anything on a plane. Even the forks and
knives
are plastic.

Max

You fly on some crappy airlines!

United, American, Delta, Southwest, a few other connectors. Lufthansa, El
Al, and Virgin don't seem to have intra-US routes these days, Oz. Maybe on
international flights I'd actually get a real glass wine bottle, huh? Then,
by God, I'd have a weapon to ward off those nasty terrorist people.

This discussion is so amusing as to be comical. Do you honestly believe a
tiny broken wine bottle would have the same impact as an open Swiss Army
knife?

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message

This discussion is so amusing as to be comical. Do you honestly believe a
tiny broken wine bottle would have the same impact as an open Swiss Army
knife?

Damn Rights it would..... I know, I've actually been on the receiving end
of a fight where my opponent resorted to a broken bottle. I've also been in
a knife fight. The cutting edge of a broken half litre wine bottle will do
ten times the damage with half the effort to four times the amount of people
than a fricken swiss army knife with no locking blade!!

CM

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:1Q%Lf.5321$M52.3777@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

This discussion is so amusing as to be comical. Do you honestly believe
a tiny broken wine bottle would have the same impact as an open Swiss
Army knife?

Damn Rights it would..... I know, I've actually been on the receiving
end of a fight where my opponent resorted to a broken bottle.

Now you are really getting amusing, Mooron. Do you honestly expect me to
believe that you would be intimidated by someone wielding a broken 2oz.
airline booze bottle?

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

I've also been in a knife fight. The cutting edge of a broken half litre
wine bottle

Okay, now tell me--which airline carries wine bottles that size?????

will do ten times the damage with half the effort to four times the amount
of people than a fricken swiss army knife with no locking blade!!

You need to pick your fighting companions more carefully, then. I'll fight
the bottle-wielder any day over one with a knife. A knife can inflict
permanent and/or fatal damage. I'm unaware of much concern over the deaths
caused by broken wine bottles. If they were really as lethal as you seem to
imply, the liberals would be screaming for banning glass wine and liquor
bottles.

The al Qaeda hijackers on 9/11 carried box cutters rather than Swiss Army
knives. They do lock in the open position, but they don't have much ability
to penetrate. I'd take the Swiss Army knife as my personal weapon over the
bottle (snicker) or the box cutter any day. Then again I know how to fight
with a knife, locked blade or no. Give me a tanto and you'll not defeat me
with anything short of a gun.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
Now you are really getting amusing, Mooron. Do you honestly expect me to
believe that you would be intimidated by someone wielding a broken 2oz.
airline booze bottle?

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Try reading for comprehension and pay attention to the "half litre" part
Max. There are no 2 oz bottles of wine.

Okay, now tell me--which airline carries wine bottles that size?????

All airlines that serve wine have 1/2 litre bottles..... none have 2 oz
bottles.

You need to pick your fighting companions more carefully, then. I'll
fight the bottle-wielder any day over one with a knife. A knife can
inflict permanent and/or fatal damage. I'm unaware of much concern over
the deaths caused by broken wine bottles. If they were really as lethal
as you seem to imply, the liberals would be screaming for banning glass
wine and liquor bottles.

Now you are sounding like Bobsprit on sailing..... you have no idea of the
damage a broken bottle will inflict Max... I do! I assure you the damage is
a lot worse than a pen knife or even a standard pocket knife. A broken
bottle can inflict fatal wounds much more readily than a small blade.
Liberals drink wine.... why they haven't insisted on plastic bottles
probably follows the logic of retinal scans and confiscation of nail
clippers from old ladies with walkers.

.... and Max... I don't pick fighting companions.


The al Qaeda hijackers on 9/11 carried box cutters rather than Swiss Army
knives. They do lock in the open position, but they don't have much
ability to penetrate. I'd take the Swiss Army knife as my personal weapon
over the bottle (snicker) or the box cutter any day. Then again I know
how to fight with a knife, locked blade or no. Give me a tanto and you'll
not defeat me with anything short of a gun.

Oh cripes.... here we go... another American Suburban Superman... you are
now not only grasping straws... but talking through your hat. You have never
been in a knife fight... and obviously never faced an opponent wielding a
broken bottle. I have scars from encounters like that Max. The broken bottle
was by far much worse than the knife..... it's the reason I no longer carry
a blade to the bar.

Tantos.... are decorative knives. They have no use in real life. They were
designed for urban cowboys such as yourself who fancy themselves a closet
Chuck Norris... but have no real life experience with such situations.
Having owned a "Tanto Blade" because I collect knives as a hobby, I know for
a fact that piercing damage and slashing damage is no better than a common
hunting knife of Bowie design. They offer no more advantage in combat than a
common good blade. Finally... you would do exactly what everyone does when
faced with an attack from someone wielding a broken bottle at a bar fight...
fend off and look for an escape route.

....and Max.... you do not in any way conceivable ..."know how to fight". I
can tell that in a minute. You are a blowhard with no experience in
violence. I'm basing that on years of martial arts training and actual
street fighting experience. You talk the talk but can't walk the walk. There
may be some on this group who have had experience with such matters... but
neither you nor Bobsprit ever have... that's for certain. It's not your
"movie of the week on Spike channel" ... real fights are very quick, usually
dealing a majority of the damage within the first few seconds of engagement
and rarely go beyond 2 or 3 minutes. Fancy "Kung Fu" moves are useless.....
there is no choreography in a bar fight.

CM

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news_iMf.7503$vC4.2309@clgrps12...

"Maxprop" wrote in message
Now you are really getting amusing, Mooron. Do you honestly expect me to
believe that you would be intimidated by someone wielding a broken 2oz.
airline booze bottle?

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Try reading for comprehension and pay attention to the "half litre" part
Max. There are no 2 oz bottles of wine.

Okay, now tell me--which airline carries wine bottles that size?????

All airlines that serve wine have 1/2 litre bottles..... none have 2 oz
bottles.

You need to pick your fighting companions more carefully, then. I'll
fight the bottle-wielder any day over one with a knife. A knife can
inflict permanent and/or fatal damage. I'm unaware of much concern over
the deaths caused by broken wine bottles. If they were really as lethal
as you seem to imply, the liberals would be screaming for banning glass
wine and liquor bottles.

Now you are sounding like Bobsprit on sailing..... you have no idea of
the damage a broken bottle will inflict Max... I do! I assure you the
damage is a lot worse than a pen knife or even a standard pocket knife. A
broken bottle can inflict fatal wounds much more readily than a small
blade. Liberals drink wine.... why they haven't insisted on plastic
bottles probably follows the logic of retinal scans and confiscation of
nail clippers from old ladies with walkers.

Damn right. It's sure as hell time we outlawed those damned half-liter wine
bottles before we find ourselves having to step over the dead in the
streets. Oh yeah, I know the neocons are going to say "wine bottles don't
kill people--winos kill people."


... and Max... I don't pick fighting companions.

They pick you? Hell, I took you for the last one to get picked for any
"sport."



The al Qaeda hijackers on 9/11 carried box cutters rather than Swiss Army
knives. They do lock in the open position, but they don't have much
ability to penetrate. I'd take the Swiss Army knife as my personal
weapon over the bottle (snicker) or the box cutter any day. Then again I
know how to fight with a knife, locked blade or no. Give me a tanto and
you'll not defeat me with anything short of a gun.

Oh cripes.... here we go... another American Suburban Superman... you are
now not only grasping straws... but talking through your hat. You have
never been in a knife fight...

Good thing for any conceivable opponent.

and obviously never faced an opponent wielding a broken bottle.

Actually I have.

I have scars from encounters like that Max. The broken bottle was by far
much worse than the knife..... it's the reason I no longer carry a blade
to the bar.

Good point. Why carry a blade when you can just break a bottle. I see.

Seriously, however, we aren't talking about scars, rather your life.

Tantos.... are decorative knives. They have no use in real life.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahaha.

They were designed for urban cowboys such as yourself who fancy themselves
a closet Chuck Norris... but have no real life experience with such
situations.

Your cluelessness is uncanny, Mooron. Proficient in the use of the daito
(you probably call this a katana), the wakizashi, and the tanto, I can
assure you that you are mistaken. I studied with two of the four top
swordsmen in the US for 5 years while attending college--a form of
recreation and a self-imposed method of keeping myself out of trouble.
While most people regard the tanto as the instrument of hara-kiri, it is
among the best defensive weapons in existence, mostly due to its diminutive
length and light weight. It's no daito, but it is lethal. The Samurai used
them for more than just committing sepuchu, or for decoration. Used
properly, only a gun-weilding opponent can defeat a combatant with a tanto.
For the untrained, it's no more valuable than a common jackknife.

Having owned a "Tanto Blade" because I collect knives as a hobby, I know
for a fact that piercing damage and slashing damage is no better than a
common hunting knife of Bowie design.

So, I suppose you also believe that the daito has no greater effectiveness
than a broadsword??? The tanto is not a point-penetrating blade. You
really know nothing about it, do ya?

They offer no more advantage in combat than a common good blade.

Why do you think the blade is thin, narrow, very hard, and slightly curved?
Do you think that's an aesthetic affectation? You really know nothing about
the Samurai weapons, do ya?

Finally... you would do exactly what everyone does when faced with an
attack from someone wielding a broken bottle at a bar fight... fend off
and look for an escape route.

Yes, I would, primarily because I have absolutely no desire to kill anyone,
or even engage in a fight, if it can be avoided in any way. That is
precisely how I was trained. Cornered, however, I'd have no choice but to
fight. And I'd likely dispatch the bottle-wielder without incuring so much
as a scratch. That, too, is how I was trained. You, OTOH, might do well to
urinate in your pants--tends to put off would-be bottle-wielding attackers
somewhat.

...and Max.... you do not in any way conceivable ..."know how to fight". I
can tell that in a minute. You are a blowhard with no experience in
violence. I'm basing that on years of martial arts training and actual
street fighting experience. You talk the talk but can't walk the walk.
There may be some on this group who have had experience with such
matters... but neither you nor Bobsprit ever have... that's for certain.
It's not your "movie of the week on Spike channel" ... real fights are
very quick, usually dealing a majority of the damage within the first few
seconds of engagement and rarely go beyond 2 or 3 minutes. Fancy "Kung Fu"
moves are useless..... there is no choreography in a bar fight.

Believe what you will. Being ignorant is no crime, even in Canada.

Max

In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:1Q%Lf.5321$M52.3777@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

This discussion is so amusing as to be comical. Do you honestly believe
a tiny broken wine bottle would have the same impact as an open Swiss
Army knife?

Damn Rights it would..... I know, I've actually been on the receiving
end of a fight where my opponent resorted to a broken bottle.

Now you are really getting amusing, Mooron. Do you honestly expect me to
believe that you would be intimidated by someone wielding a broken 2oz.
airline booze bottle?

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Indeed, Max. You are, indeed, wrong and everyone here knows it. I
wasn't referring to those little 2 oz spirits bottles. I guess you
don't drink wine and/or travel on crappy airlines.

Keep digging a deeper hole. Oz is an ex-cop and I believe Mooron WRT
fighting experience far more than I believe you. As for me, I have no
'hands-on' experience, but I know what you can fashion from a broken
bottle, and unlike a box cutter, it's a weapon with both a cutting edge
*and* stabbing ability sufficient to reach major organs.

I just snipped the rest - irrelevant. You're just flailing about in a
****-poor attempt to avoid admitting the whole airline 'security' caper
is smoke & mirrors, incapable of achieving its stated purpose.

All that was needed was secure doors between the pilot's compartment &
the pax space. Damn, that was real difficult to work out oh, about 30
years ago...........

PDW

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:1Q%Lf.5321$M52.3777@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

This discussion is so amusing as to be comical. Do you honestly
believe
a tiny broken wine bottle would have the same impact as an open Swiss
Army knife?

Damn Rights it would..... I know, I've actually been on the receiving
end of a fight where my opponent resorted to a broken bottle.

Now you are really getting amusing, Mooron. Do you honestly expect me to
believe that you would be intimidated by someone wielding a broken 2oz.
airline booze bottle?

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Indeed, Max. You are, indeed, wrong and everyone here knows it. I
wasn't referring to those little 2 oz spirits bottles. I guess you
don't drink wine and/or travel on crappy airlines.

No, I don't drink the bilgewater wine served on airplanes. I do see the
little wine bottles, however, and they aren't much bigger than the 2oz.
liquour bottles--maybe 6 oz. max. Mooron says he sees half liter bottles on
planes. I don't believe I've ever seen half liter bottles--half bottles
(375 ml.) yes, but half liter? Never heard of 'em. And I've never seen
half bottles on a plane. Only the peewee ones.


Keep digging a deeper hole. Oz is an ex-cop and I believe Mooron WRT
fighting experience far more than I believe you.

And why is that? Because he's supportive of your argument? Because he's
Canadian, not American? Your rationale for assessing credibility
demonstrates a lack of knowledge and more than a bit of prejudice, methinks.
To your credit, I've had very little fighting experience--mostly parking lot
brawls after drinking too much in college. But I have had fairly extensive
training that neither you nor he knows anything about (at least prior to my
last post to him in this thread). Your decree that you believe him more
than me is not borne of knowledge, rather of prejudice.

As for me, I have no
'hands-on' experience, but I know what you can fashion from a broken
bottle, and unlike a box cutter, it's a weapon with both a cutting edge
*and* stabbing ability sufficient to reach major organs.

You should have quit with the "I have no hands-on experience." Your last
statement is redundant.

I just snipped the rest - irrelevant. You're just flailing about in a
****-poor attempt to avoid admitting the whole airline 'security' caper
is smoke & mirrors, incapable of achieving its stated purpose.

No, I admitted it may be just that. I also acknowledge that it *may* be
effective and working as intended. The evidence sides with the latter, but
no one really knows for sure. Certainly you, Mooron, and Ozzy don't. Until
another plane is hijacked, it's anyone's guess. You, however, make blanket
statements with no supporting evidence whatsoever. Your antipathy toward
the US is your only basis for making such statements, and that shows your
ignorance. If another four planes had been hijacked subsequent to 9/11,
your opinion would bear some credibility. As it is, your opinion is just
that--an unsupported opinion.


All that was needed was secure doors between the pilot's compartment &
the pax space. Damn, that was real difficult to work out oh, about 30
years ago...........

I can't believe I'm reading this from a purportedly intelligent human. So
such a secure cockpit access door would stop a flight crew from acceding to
hijackers' demands if they were carrying a bomb? Are you implying that
hijackers would simply give up if they couldn't gain access to the cockpit.
(Oh ****, Achmed, the pilot won't let us in, and the door is locked. Let's
give the bomb and our guns to the flight attendants and maybe they'll let us
off with a slap on the wrist.") The key to preventing a repeat of 9/11 is
to prevent the hijacking in the first place.

While I'm digging the hole you seem to think I am, you might notice the
self-imposed 20' deep well you're currently standing in, Pete.


Max

In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:1Q%Lf.5321$M52.3777@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

This discussion is so amusing as to be comical. Do you honestly
believe
a tiny broken wine bottle would have the same impact as an open Swiss
Army knife?

Damn Rights it would..... I know, I've actually been on the receiving
end of a fight where my opponent resorted to a broken bottle.

Now you are really getting amusing, Mooron. Do you honestly expect me to
believe that you would be intimidated by someone wielding a broken 2oz.
airline booze bottle?

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Indeed, Max. You are, indeed, wrong and everyone here knows it. I
wasn't referring to those little 2 oz spirits bottles. I guess you
don't drink wine and/or travel on crappy airlines.

No, I don't drink the bilgewater wine served on airplanes. I do see the
little wine bottles, however, and they aren't much bigger than the 2oz.
liquour bottles--maybe 6 oz. max. Mooron says he sees half liter bottles on
planes. I don't believe I've ever seen half liter bottles--half bottles
(375 ml.) yes, but half liter? Never heard of 'em. And I've never seen
half bottles on a plane. Only the peewee ones.

So, your experience is limited. We knew that.

Keep digging a deeper hole. Oz is an ex-cop and I believe Mooron WRT
fighting experience far more than I believe you.

And why is that? Because he's supportive of your argument? Because he's
Canadian, not American? Your rationale for assessing credibility
demonstrates a lack of knowledge and more than a bit of prejudice, methinks.
To your credit, I've had very little fighting experience--mostly parking lot
brawls after drinking too much in college. But I have had fairly extensive
training that neither you nor he knows anything about (at least prior to my
last post to him in this thread). Your decree that you believe him more
than me is not borne of knowledge, rather of prejudice.

You can call it that, if you wish. Given that few of us have ever met
in RL, all we really go on is what we can read here combined with our
personal life experiences.

I've been working in the marine area, on & off, most of my life.
Fishermen, heavy cargo ships, oceanographic research vessels. As a tech
type, I am with but not really part of the general crew, but I drink
with them before we sail & after we get into port. I've seen a lot of
brawls in various places. I've seen sailors who routinely carry knives
and fight for fun back off from someone with a broken bottle. Then I
read how you think a broken bottle isn't as dangerous as a box knife.
Of course I discount what you say.

As for me, I have no
'hands-on' experience, but I know what you can fashion from a broken
bottle, and unlike a box cutter, it's a weapon with both a cutting edge
*and* stabbing ability sufficient to reach major organs.

You should have quit with the "I have no hands-on experience." Your last
statement is redundant.

Actually, it's not. If you want to argue about how to make weapons, I
have a pretty good knowledge base. What do you know? I don't mean from
reading a book, what can you, personally, *make*?


I just snipped the rest - irrelevant. You're just flailing about in a
****-poor attempt to avoid admitting the whole airline 'security' caper
is smoke & mirrors, incapable of achieving its stated purpose.

No, I admitted it may be just that. I also acknowledge that it *may* be
effective and working as intended. The evidence sides with the latter, but
no one really knows for sure. Certainly you, Mooron, and Ozzy don't. Until
another plane is hijacked, it's anyone's guess. You, however, make blanket
statements with no supporting evidence whatsoever. Your antipathy toward
the US is your only basis for making such statements, and that shows your
ignorance.

You're projecting, Max. I feel the exact same way about the exact same
stupid rules in Australia. I suppose you think that makes me
antipathetic to Australia, too.

Clue time Max - a stupid law is a stupid law regardless of location.
People like you who try to shift discussion to supposed personal
attributes merely demonstrate that you can't argue on the issues.

If another four planes had been hijacked subsequent to 9/11,
your opinion would bear some credibility. As it is, your opinion is just
that--an unsupported opinion.

Funny, you're agreeing with all the whackos like Oz who want to remove
guns from people. Rationale, there was a mass murder using firearms
here in Tasmania in 1996. Subsequent, following forced surrender of all
auto, semiauto and many other firearms plus compulsory licensing, there
have been no further massacres. Therefore the law is successful in
preventing massacres using firearms.

Unlike you, Max, I have an understanding of statistics and experimental
design.


All that was needed was secure doors between the pilot's compartment &
the pax space. Damn, that was real difficult to work out oh, about 30
years ago...........

I can't believe I'm reading this from a purportedly intelligent human. So
such a secure cockpit access door would stop a flight crew from acceding to
hijackers' demands if they were carrying a bomb? Are you implying that
hijackers would simply give up if they couldn't gain access to the cockpit.
(Oh ****, Achmed, the pilot won't let us in, and the door is locked. Let's
give the bomb and our guns to the flight attendants and maybe they'll let us
off with a slap on the wrist.") The key to preventing a repeat of 9/11 is
to prevent the hijacking in the first place.

Max, Max, Max. Do try to keep up. We are discussing the uselessness of
banning people with Swiss Army knives, knitting needles, nail files,
nail clippers and similar objects while permitting glass bottles et al.
We're not talking about guns & bombs.

Your desperation is showing, I'm afraid.

While I'm digging the hole you seem to think I am, you might notice the
self-imposed 20' deep well you're currently standing in, Pete.

Translation: Max is losing badly and desperately wants to slide onto a
new topic.

PDW