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Nursing at Sea
Hi Sailors,
What is in your first aid kit on your sailboat? SB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
Great question!
We carry a very complete first aid kit, which Suzanne assembled from several smaller kits. But the most significant item we carry is the Philips HeartStart External Defibrillator. This cost us 1100.00, BUT we carry it because Suzanne's father sails with us and has a heart condition and also one of the girls we sail with has some heart problems. As with the rest of our kit, we hope to not ever have the need to use the AED. RB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message oups.com... Great question! We carry a very complete first aid kit, which Suzanne assembled from several smaller kits. But the most significant item we carry is the Philips BREAST PUMP. This cost us 1100.00, BUT we carry it because Suzanne's father sails with us. sick |
Nursing at Sea
SUZY wrote:
Hi Sailors, What is in your first aid kit on your sailboat? SB 35s5 NY 2 kinds of antibiotic cream an assortment and variety of gauze and telfa bandages band-aids hydrogen peroxide aloe vera gel ACE bandages a few straws (never know when you're going to have to do that emergency trach) aspirin, tylenol, ibuprogen, and some prescription painkillers an EPI pen an assortment of needles and fishing line ( works great on stitching up horses, too) matches |
Nursing at Sea
"SUZY" wrote in message Hi Sailors, What is in your first aid kit on your sailboat? 2 bottles of Lambs Navy 151 overproof rum and a roll of duct tape. If that fails to cure an injury or disease..... it's over the rail and in the water. Everybody has to carry their own weight aboard and frankly I don't have the time nor inclination to suffer a slackard aboard. Rum is a sure cure for Sea Sickness. BTW - the duck tape is to secure the injured/ sick ex-crew member and facilitate the jettison process. CM |
Nursing at Sea
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message oups.com... Great question! We carry a very complete first aid kit, which Suzanne assembled from several smaller kits. But the most significant item we carry is the Philips HeartStart External Defibrillator. This cost us 1100.00, BUT we carry it because Suzanne's father sails with us and has a heart condition and also one of the girls we sail with has some heart problems. As with the rest of our kit, we hope to not ever have the need to use the AED. RB 35s5 NY Do you have a big red cross painted on the side of the ship? What are you sailing, a hospital boat? Why don't your ailing friends get implantable defibrillators? If they are that prone to heart problems, that's an indication for an implant. Do you have an on board pulse-ox? Why not? Do you have liability insurance for that defib? Remember, Suzy is a nurse, she's no longer a good samaritan. Hospital boat! Bwaaahaahahaaahahahahaahahahahaaaaa!!!!! |
Nursing at Sea
"Capt" Rob ...
.... the most significant item we carry is the Philips HeartStart External Defibrillator. Do you know which symptoms to use it for? Do you know which conditions it will not help? Oddly enough, my wife & I were sitting around with some sailing friends and this exact subject came up. Fortunately there was a knowledgeable professional present who laid out the basic facts very plainly. Bob Crantz wrote: Do you have a big red cross painted on the side of the ship? What are you sailing, a hospital boat? I don't think it's unreasonalbe to carry an AED, especially for somebody to whom the cost (so important to Bubbles, he had to mention it first) is trivial. Why don't your ailing friends get implantable defibrillators? If they are that prone to heart problems, that's an indication for an implant. Yeah but then they wouldn't be depending on the generosity & courage of Bobsprit. Do you have an on board pulse-ox? Why not? No, he carries a REAL ox... no wait, that may be a buffalo... Do you have liability insurance for that defib? Remember, Suzy is a nurse, she's no longer a good samaritan. And that's a big big issue, especially in combination with the requirement for coming to aid of other mariners. Bobsprit could be sued by any boater nearby who had a cardiac incident. No wonder he's so unwilling to go far from his slip! DSK |
Nursing at Sea
DSK wrote:
"Capt" Rob ... .... the most significant item we carry is the Philips HeartStart External Defibrillator. Do you know which symptoms to use it for? Do you know which conditions it will not help? Oddly enough, my wife & I were sitting around with some sailing friends and this exact subject came up. Fortunately there was a knowledgeable professional present who laid out the basic facts very plainly. Bob Crantz wrote: Do you have a big red cross painted on the side of the ship? What are you sailing, a hospital boat? I don't think it's unreasonalbe to carry an AED, especially for somebody to whom the cost (so important to Bubbles, he had to mention it first) is trivial. Why don't your ailing friends get implantable defibrillators? If they are that prone to heart problems, that's an indication for an implant. Yeah but then they wouldn't be depending on the generosity & courage of Bobsprit. Do you have an on board pulse-ox? Why not? No, he carries a REAL ox... no wait, that may be a buffalo... Do you have liability insurance for that defib? Remember, Suzy is a nurse, she's no longer a good samaritan. And that's a big big issue, especially in combination with the requirement for coming to aid of other mariners. Bobsprit could be sued by any boater nearby who had a cardiac incident. No wonder he's so unwilling to go far from his slip! DSK My fear is that with the spread of these machines to local establishments and businesses, more harm than hurt is going to occur. And the thought of some little kid playing "doctor" on his friends or siblings leaves me cold.... |
Nursing at Sea
katysails wrote:
My fear is that with the spread of these machines to local establishments and businesses, more harm than hurt is going to occur. And the thought of some little kid playing "doctor" on his friends or siblings leaves me cold.... Well, my understanding is that the machines sold to the public as Automatic External Defibrillators cannot be made to shock a person who isn't already dead (ie no pulse). The problem I see with the AEDs are that people will assume that they're magical devices that eliminate the need for common sense. After all, why worry about a heart attack when every MacDonalds and every Jiffy Gas-N-Go has an AED handy? Another issue is that there are a large number of people whom these machines cannot help, and if the people on the scene waste valuable time fooling around with an AED instead of getting real medical aid, those people will suffer great harm or death. Regards Doug King |
Nursing at Sea
In article ,
DSK wrote: "Capt" Rob ... .... the most significant item we carry is the Philips HeartStart External Defibrillator. Do you know which symptoms to use it for? Do you know which conditions it will not help? Actually, all you have to do is suspect that it'll help. As soon as you hook it up and stand clear, it will tell you if a shock is applicable. They're pretty fool proof, even warning you to stand clear, since you could possibly shock yourself if in contact with the victim. Oddly enough, my wife & I were sitting around with some sailing friends and this exact subject came up. Fortunately there was a knowledgeable professional present who laid out the basic facts very plainly. Hahaha... No, he carries a REAL ox... no wait, that may be a buffalo... Do you have liability insurance for that defib? Remember, Suzy is a nurse, she's no longer a good samaritan. And that's a big big issue, especially in combination with the requirement for coming to aid of other mariners. Bobsprit could be sued by any boater nearby who had a cardiac incident. No wonder he's so unwilling to go far from his slip! You would need to be trained in its use to probably avoid liability as a good samaritan... depending on your using it appropriately of course. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Nursing at Sea
In article ,
katy wrote: My fear is that with the spread of these machines to local establishments and businesses, more harm than hurt is going to occur. And the thought of some little kid playing "doctor" on his friends or siblings leaves me cold.... I don't see how it could be an issue, since the unit will not work if the condition isn't a match. Of course, anything is possible I suppose... -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Nursing at Sea
In article ,
DSK wrote: katysails wrote: My fear is that with the spread of these machines to local establishments and businesses, more harm than hurt is going to occur. And the thought of some little kid playing "doctor" on his friends or siblings leaves me cold.... Well, my understanding is that the machines sold to the public as Automatic External Defibrillators cannot be made to shock a person who isn't already dead (ie no pulse). The problem I see with the AEDs are that people will assume that they're magical devices that eliminate the need for common sense. After all, why worry about a heart attack when every MacDonalds and every Jiffy Gas-N-Go has an AED handy? Another issue is that there are a large number of people whom these machines cannot help, and if the people on the scene waste valuable time fooling around with an AED instead of getting real medical aid, those people will suffer great harm or death. Well, maybe, but typically if you don't know how to use it, you're not even going to try, because you probably don't know what it is. :-) If you've had a basic CPR class, then you would know the ABCs and it wouldn't be an issue. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Nursing at Sea
Do you have liability insurance for that defib? Remember, Suzy is a
nurse, she's no longer a good samaritan. Bad news for you ignorant folks....Suzanne is working for a heart center, one of the best. She was trained to use the Phillips unit and may even take a gig teaching others. She's now teaching me the basics. We are NOT PERMITTED to use it on ANYONE ELSE. It's for two people and even her father had to sign a special set of forms so that we can use it on him legally. Now the big question: Would we use it one someone when no other help was feasable and death seemed certain otherwise? Yes. Our finances are pretty much untouchable, so I'd try to save a life rather than worrying about a lawsuit. RB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
In article ,
katy wrote: SUZY wrote: Hi Sailors, What is in your first aid kit on your sailboat? SB 35s5 NY 2 kinds of antibiotic cream an assortment and variety of gauze and telfa bandages band-aids hydrogen peroxide aloe vera gel ACE bandages a few straws (never know when you're going to have to do that emergency trach) aspirin, tylenol, ibuprogen, and some prescription painkillers an EPI pen an assortment of needles and fishing line ( works great on stitching up horses, too) matches I hope you have the proper medical training to do a tracheotomy, since if you don't and you attempt it, there is a very good probability you'll be sued back to the stone age. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Nursing at Sea
In article . com,
Capt. Rob wrote: Do you have liability insurance for that defib? Remember, Suzy is a nurse, she's no longer a good samaritan. Bad news for you ignorant folks....Suzanne is working for a heart center, one of the best. She was trained to use the Phillips unit and may even take a gig teaching others. She's now teaching me the basics. We are NOT PERMITTED to use it on ANYONE ELSE. It's for two people and even her father had to sign a special set of forms so that we can use it on him legally. Now the big question: Would we use it one someone when no other help was feasable and death seemed certain otherwise? Yes. Our finances are pretty much untouchable, so I'd try to save a life rather than worrying about a lawsuit. It sounds like you're implying that you wouldn't try and save someone's life if the only mitigating consideration were your personal fortune. If I were on a boat or any place where there was no reasonable expectation of help from the outside, I would try and save the person's life by whatever means I had available. Even if I wasn't trained in a particular technique of if my CPR card had expired. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Nursing at Sea
You would need to be trained in its use to probably avoid liability as
a good samaritan... depending on your using it appropriately of course. You don't expect Doug or Crantz to know this, do you? Suzanne had to have classes in the use of the unit. She's to get additional training from Phillips next month. In spite of being designed for easy use, training on the system is prefered. On another interesting note, we HAD to provide the unit's possible locations to the vender, who then contacted our insurance company. Our rate was not effected even though the unit was added to our boat's list of transportable gear. RB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
Jonathan Ganz wrote: In article , katy wrote: SUZY wrote: Hi Sailors, What is in your first aid kit on your sailboat? SB 35s5 NY 2 kinds of antibiotic cream an assortment and variety of gauze and telfa bandages band-aids hydrogen peroxide aloe vera gel ACE bandages a few straws (never know when you're going to have to do that emergency trach) aspirin, tylenol, ibuprogen, and some prescription painkillers an EPI pen an assortment of needles and fishing line ( works great on stitching up horses, too) matches I hope you have the proper medical training to do a tracheotomy, since if you don't and you attempt it, there is a very good probability you'll be sued back to the stone age. Oh Jon, A trake (as us nurses call it) is easy as pie, tilt your neck back, feel your windpipe? it has ridges like a vaccume clearner hose, right under your adams apple, use your finger and make sure you feel no viens, plunge cut a 1/2" slit between the rings into the pipe, a straw is a bit small for a full grown man I use a cardboard tampax tube, just remember to remove the tampax first..Thhee hehe. Stick your finger in the slit to expand it, then insert the tube, rinse with vodka ect, and tape up. Rob chokes all the time. I could do it blindfolded. SB 35s5 NY -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Nursing at Sea
You lie!
It's an over-the counter medical device: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...15146?v=glance You don't need permission or a prescription to use it! You lie! BUSTED! "Capt. Rob" wrote in message ups.com... Do you have liability insurance for that defib? Remember, Suzy is a nurse, she's no longer a good samaritan. Bad news for you ignorant folks....Suzanne is working for a heart center, one of the best. She was trained to use the Phillips unit and may even take a gig teaching others. She's now teaching me the basics. We are NOT PERMITTED to use it on ANYONE ELSE. It's for two people and even her father had to sign a special set of forms so that we can use it on him legally. Now the big question: Would we use it one someone when no other help was feasable and death seemed certain otherwise? Yes. Our finances are pretty much untouchable, so I'd try to save a life rather than worrying about a lawsuit. RB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message ups.com... You don't expect Doug or Crantz to know this, do you? Suzanne had to have classes in the use of the unit. I can buy it on Amazon and use it with no classes! She's to get additional training from Phillips next month. I can buy it from Amazon and use it with no training! In spite of being designed for easy use, training on the system is prefered. It is designed to be used with no training! Training is optional! On another interesting note, we HAD to provide the unit's possible locations to the vender, who then contacted our insurance company. I can buy it from Amazon! You probably had insurance pay for it. Our rate was not effected even though the unit was added to our boat's list of transportable gear. That's because you are viewed as a medical liability! Liar!!!! RB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
Oh Bob,
Your well educated, and worldly. Rob hates my new uniform, he says it's not proper for the heart ward. http://www.electric-lingerie.com/costumes/01.jpg What do you think Bob? SB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
"SUZY" wrote in message ups.com... Oh Bob, Your well educated, and worldly. Rob hates my new uniform, he says it's not proper for the heart ward. http://www.electric-lingerie.com/costumes/01.jpg What do you think Bob? Is it made of rubber? I think Robbie wants a rubber nurse. |
Nursing at Sea
It sounds like you're implying that you wouldn't try and save
someone's life if the only mitigating consideration were your personal fortune. Jonathan, are you nuts? Where did I write that. I said we would use the unit and only added the part about finances because another shallow person brought it up. RB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
designed for easy use, training on the system is prefered.
It is designed to be used with no training! Training is optional! This is not a topic I'll get involved as far as trolling is concerned. Training is optional, yes. Suzanne had the training. You have no point. Just more jealousy from poor Crantz...who has no boat, no woman, no sex life and no one to shock is fat encased heart back to life when it finally shudders it's last. Good thread until Doug and Crantz fouled it. Buh-bye. RB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
oh baby don't get mad, he's just playing..Now be a big boy and go back
and play nice. Bob you be nice too! SB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
"Capt" Rob wrote:
I said we would use the unit and only added the part about finances because another shallow person brought it up. So, the first person who brought up finances was shallow? Better review, Bubbles. The first thing you mentioned about your alleged AED was how much it cost. And you really should get some facts before you post medical stuff on the internet. Of course, everybody here knows you're an unreliable whacko, but your words might be read by some other person and taken seriously. Is Bitty-Bill/ComoJo going to swoop in and join your team any minute now? You need some support. Nobody has said this in too long: Bubbles, you're nuts! DSK |
Nursing at Sea
In article .com,
Capt. Rob wrote: It sounds like you're implying that you wouldn't try and save someone's life if the only mitigating consideration were your personal fortune. Jonathan, are you nuts? Where did I write that. I said we would use the unit and only added the part about finances because another shallow person brought it up. No accusation intended... you said that you weren't worried about your finances, since they were protected. It seemed like you were saying that if they were not protected, that would mitigate your response. I have no idea who brought up the original subject of finances. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Nursing at Sea
A rubber nurse.....
Oh Thee hehe I get it. I feel like such a slut ;) Oh thank you Bob, I was not properly dressed. Now I know better. Like this Rob will respect me again http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...00/g178337.jpg SB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
DSK wrote:
katysails wrote: My fear is that with the spread of these machines to local establishments and businesses, more harm than hurt is going to occur. And the thought of some little kid playing "doctor" on his friends or siblings leaves me cold.... Well, my understanding is that the machines sold to the public as Automatic External Defibrillators cannot be made to shock a person who isn't already dead (ie no pulse). The problem I see with the AEDs are that people will assume that they're magical devices that eliminate the need for common sense. After all, why worry about a heart attack when every MacDonalds and every Jiffy Gas-N-Go has an AED handy? Another issue is that there are a large number of people whom these machines cannot help, and if the people on the scene waste valuable time fooling around with an AED instead of getting real medical aid, those people will suffer great harm or death. Regards Doug King I remember an incident at one place I worked at where an employee collapsed and a well meaning soul proceeded, without training, to try to administer CPR. Unfortunately, the person was not suffering from a heart attack or respiratory failure, but was having a grand mal seizure and ended up breaking a few teeth and biting his tongue severly. He also sustained bruises on his chest where the samaritan had thumped him. It was fortunate that someone in the know arrived in time before the savior became a killer. |
Nursing at Sea
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article , katy wrote: SUZY wrote: Hi Sailors, What is in your first aid kit on your sailboat? SB 35s5 NY 2 kinds of antibiotic cream an assortment and variety of gauze and telfa bandages band-aids hydrogen peroxide aloe vera gel ACE bandages a few straws (never know when you're going to have to do that emergency trach) aspirin, tylenol, ibuprogen, and some prescription painkillers an EPI pen an assortment of needles and fishing line ( works great on stitching up horses, too) matches I hope you have the proper medical training to do a tracheotomy, since if you don't and you attempt it, there is a very good probability you'll be sued back to the stone age. On my husband?????Don't think so.... |
Nursing at Sea
2 kinds of antibiotic cream
an assortment and variety of gauze and telfa bandages band-aids hydrogen peroxide aloe vera gel ACE bandages a few straws (never know when you're going to have to do that emergency trach) aspirin, tylenol, ibuprogen, and some prescription painkillers an EPI pen an assortment of needles and fishing line ( works great on stitching up horses, too) matches Jonathan Ganz wrote: I hope you have the proper medical training to do a tracheotomy, since if you don't and you attempt it, there is a very good probability you'll be sued back to the stone age. katysails wrote: On my husband?????Don't think so.... Are you saying Mr. Sails ain't the suin' kind? Hmm, that would make a good country song... Anyway, as somebody else posted, doing a tracheotomy isn't that hard. Shucks, they gave instructions how to do it on M*A*S*H (one of the only TV shows I've ever watched) and it worked perfectly. DSK |
Nursing at Sea
How did you know I am big and fat?
Amen! "Capt. Rob" wrote in message ups.com... designed for easy use, training on the system is prefered. It is designed to be used with no training! Training is optional! This is not a topic I'll get involved as far as trolling is concerned. Training is optional, yes. Suzanne had the training. You have no point. Just more jealousy from poor Crantz...who has no boat, no woman, no sex life and no one to shock is fat encased heart back to life when it finally shudders it's last. Good thread until Doug and Crantz fouled it. Buh-bye. RB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message ups.com... This is not a topic I'll get involved as far as trolling is concerned. Training is optional, yes. Suzanne had the training. See I am right! You have no point. But I do. I just deflated your troll. Just more jealousy from poor Crantz...who has no boat, no woman, no sex life and no one to shock is fat encased heart back to life when it finally shudders it's last. That all is true, but the defib is to shock your colon back into action. I just hope the thing doesn't spark and ignite your flatus. Poor Thomas would be traumatized seeing flames coming out both ends of your sluice box. Good thread until Doug and Crantz fouled it. Buh-bye. In other words, Doug and Crantz just flattened me. Good work Doug! RB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
In article ,
DSK wrote: Anyway, as somebody else posted, doing a tracheotomy isn't that hard. Shucks, they gave instructions how to do it on M*A*S*H (one of the only TV shows I've ever watched) and it worked perfectly. Talk about lawsuits waiting to happen! I can just imagine your attorney cringing when you try to explain to the jury that you saw it on MASH. :-) -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Nursing at Sea
"Mys Terry" wrote in No wonder you are an ignorant, arrogant, lout! There is a thin line between ignorance and arrogance and only I have managed to erase that line! Amen! |
Nursing at Sea
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote No accusation intended... you said that you weren't worried about your finances, since they were protected. It seemed like you were saying that if they were not protected, that would mitigate your response. Yup, that's exactly what he said. S |
Nursing at Sea
If you owned anything worth more than the average person you would
understand Scotty. But you don't your living in Plowsville ......Good lord...thats dirt town. Somethings just can not be replaced, and I'm not going to let some loser sue me and get my good stuff. It's best to pretend you did not see them fall, ect...and sail the other way as fast as a 35s5. RB 35s5 NY |
Nursing at Sea
DSK wrote:
2 kinds of antibiotic cream an assortment and variety of gauze and telfa bandages band-aids hydrogen peroxide aloe vera gel ACE bandages a few straws (never know when you're going to have to do that emergency trach) aspirin, tylenol, ibuprogen, and some prescription painkillers an EPI pen an assortment of needles and fishing line ( works great on stitching up horses, too) matches Jonathan Ganz wrote: I hope you have the proper medical training to do a tracheotomy, since if you don't and you attempt it, there is a very good probability you'll be sued back to the stone age. katysails wrote: On my husband?????Don't think so.... Are you saying Mr. Sails ain't the suin' kind? Hmm, that would make a good country song... Anyway, as somebody else posted, doing a tracheotomy isn't that hard. Shucks, they gave instructions how to do it on M*A*S*H (one of the only TV shows I've ever watched) and it worked perfectly. DSK Heck, I've assisted at so many vet surgeries that not much fazes me...had to sit on the neck of a filly that jumped a piece of farm equipment in a fit of pique and opened her gut up so wide her intestines fell out....that was a trat..she lived and ended up being a quite satisfactory pet for her owner's kids....jabbing a little old pen knife into someone's neck when they're turning purple wouldn't be hard to do at all... |
Nursing at Sea
Tell 'em what you do to monkeys.
Amen! "katy" wrote in message ... DSK wrote: 2 kinds of antibiotic cream an assortment and variety of gauze and telfa bandages band-aids hydrogen peroxide aloe vera gel ACE bandages a few straws (never know when you're going to have to do that emergency trach) aspirin, tylenol, ibuprogen, and some prescription painkillers an EPI pen an assortment of needles and fishing line ( works great on stitching up horses, too) matches Jonathan Ganz wrote: I hope you have the proper medical training to do a tracheotomy, since if you don't and you attempt it, there is a very good probability you'll be sued back to the stone age. katysails wrote: On my husband?????Don't think so.... Are you saying Mr. Sails ain't the suin' kind? Hmm, that would make a good country song... Anyway, as somebody else posted, doing a tracheotomy isn't that hard. Shucks, they gave instructions how to do it on M*A*S*H (one of the only TV shows I've ever watched) and it worked perfectly. DSK Heck, I've assisted at so many vet surgeries that not much fazes me...had to sit on the neck of a filly that jumped a piece of farm equipment in a fit of pique and opened her gut up so wide her intestines fell out....that was a trat..she lived and ended up being a quite satisfactory pet for her owner's kids....jabbing a little old pen knife into someone's neck when they're turning purple wouldn't be hard to do at all... |
Nursing at Sea
Anyway, as somebody else posted, doing a tracheotomy isn't
that hard. Shucks, they gave instructions how to do it on M*A*S*H (one of the only TV shows I've ever watched) and it worked perfectly. Jonathan Ganz wrote: Talk about lawsuits waiting to happen! I can just imagine your attorney cringing when you try to explain to the jury that you saw it on MASH. :-) I could prove I did it perfectly, by doing another one on the opposing lawyer, right there in the court room. DSK |
Nursing at Sea
In article ,
DSK wrote: Anyway, as somebody else posted, doing a tracheotomy isn't that hard. Shucks, they gave instructions how to do it on M*A*S*H (one of the only TV shows I've ever watched) and it worked perfectly. Jonathan Ganz wrote: Talk about lawsuits waiting to happen! I can just imagine your attorney cringing when you try to explain to the jury that you saw it on MASH. :-) I could prove I did it perfectly, by doing another one on the opposing lawyer, right there in the court room. DSK Step 1: Duct tape his mouth shut. :-) -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
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