Thats the essense of quality according to the ISO9000 standard
(corresponding British Standards Institute BS 5750).

If you promise the customer a piece of crap, fast and for low price, then
it's bad quality to deliver late and for a higher price, even if the product
in it self has better data.

No, that I have not read the book about Zen. Is it relevant ?

/Bjarke


"Nigel" wrote in message
...
Remember the definition of "good qulity": That is when you get exactly
what you expect. Good or bad.


That's an unusual definition, are you saying that the quality of a product
is defined by the expectations of the purchaser?
Would that make a supermarket own brand cheap white loaf, quality bread ?
Have you ever read "Zen and the art of motor cycle maintenance" ?

Thats the essense of quality according to the ISO9000 standard
(corresponding British Standards Institute BS 5750).


I beg to differ, the essence of quality through 9001:2000 is "Continual
improvement", through setting objectives, improving your processes, and
being driven by customer satisfaction and customer focus.

But it's the same thing.

Bavaria continue to improve (think of the early boats), their objective is
to deliver "more boat for the money", they continue to improve the
production process to make it cheaper, faster and more reliant. Customers
are satisfied because they want space and can have a 42 footer for the cost
of a 36 foot Rassy and they can have it equiped as they want.

Fit's nicely into the ISO9000 definition of quality

/Bjarke

"MJ" wrote in message
...
Thats the essense of quality according to the ISO9000 standard
(corresponding British Standards Institute BS 5750).


I beg to differ, the essence of quality through 9001:2000 is "Continual
improvement", through setting objectives, improving your processes, and
being driven by customer satisfaction and customer focus.

OK, so if Bavaria customers are satisfied why do they seem to have such a
poor reputation ?.

"Bjarke Christensen" (nej, det skal selvfølgelig
være med K da jeg er dansker) wrote in message
. dk...
But it's the same thing.

Bavaria continue to improve (think of the early boats), their objective is
to deliver "more boat for the money", they continue to improve the
production process to make it cheaper, faster and more reliant. Customers
are satisfied because they want space and can have a 42 footer for the
cost of a 36 foot Rassy and they can have it equiped as they want.

Fit's nicely into the ISO9000 definition of quality

/Bjarke

"MJ" wrote in message
...
Thats the essense of quality according to the ISO9000 standard
(corresponding British Standards Institute BS 5750).


I beg to differ, the essence of quality through 9001:2000 is "Continual
improvement", through setting objectives, improving your processes, and
being driven by customer satisfaction and customer focus.

"MJ" wrote in message
...
OK, so if Bavaria customers are satisfied why do they seem to have such a
poor reputation ?.

"Bjarke Christensen" (nej, det skal selvfølgelig
være med K da jeg er dansker) wrote in message
. dk...
But it's the same thing.

Bavaria continue to improve (think of the early boats), their objective
is to deliver "more boat for the money", they continue to improve the
production process to make it cheaper, faster and more reliant. Customers
are satisfied because they want space and can have a 42 footer for the
cost of a 36 foot Rassy and they can have it equiped as they want.

Fit's nicely into the ISO9000 definition of quality

/Bjarke

"MJ" wrote in message
...
Thats the essense of quality according to the ISO9000 standard
(corresponding British Standards Institute BS 5750).


I beg to differ, the essence of quality through 9001:2000 is "Continual
improvement", through setting objectives, improving your processes, and
being driven by customer satisfaction and customer focus.

Actually, the ISO9000 standard is more about documenting what you do rather
than the actual quality of the result. Here's a good, simple link...
http://praxiom.com/iso-9001.htm

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Actually, the ISO9000 standard is more about documenting what you do
rather than the actual quality of the result. Here's a good, simple
link... http://praxiom.com/iso-9001

NO!

ISO 9001:2000 is less documentation than previous standards eg.
ISO9001:1994, BS5750. In fact you will often hear it quoted that 9001:2000
can be built around 6 procedures !.(If you read the standard you will only
find it says "Shall have a documented procedure 6 times) in escence you have
to define your processes(flow charts).

With all the standards you will have to keep documented records (drawings,
test results, training records..........) but even without the standards you
would have these.

9001:2000 was designed to reduce the document burden on companies (although
sometimes the auditors have the opposite effect, but this is not the fault
of the standard)

MJ

Isn't Bavaria bad reputation primarily among non-Bavaria-owners? Do you know
of a Bavaria owner that is not satisfied ?

(apart from 42 MATCH owners)

/Bjarke
non-Bavaria-sailor

"MJ" wrote in message
...
OK, so if Bavaria customers are satisfied why do they seem to have such a
poor reputation ?.

snip

Bjarke Christensen (nej, det skal selvfølgelig være med K da jeg er
dansker) wrote:
Isn't Bavaria bad reputation primarily among non-Bavaria-owners? Do you know
of a Bavaria owner that is not satisfied ?

I don't know a Bavaria owner who dislikes the boat, in fact the owners
all seem to love them. I _do_ know a Bavaria owner who is very unhappy
with Opal, the UK importer.

"MJ" wrote in message
...
Actually, the ISO9000 standard is more about documenting what you do
rather than the actual quality of the result. Here's a good, simple
link... http://praxiom.com/iso-9001

NO!

ISO 9001:2000 is less documentation than previous standards eg.
ISO9001:1994, BS5750. In fact you will often hear it quoted that 9001:2000
can be built around 6 procedures !.(If you read the standard you will only
find it says "Shall have a documented procedure 6 times) in escence you
have to define your processes(flow charts).

With all the standards you will have to keep documented records (drawings,
test results, training records..........) but even without the standards
you would have these.

9001:2000 was designed to reduce the document burden on companies
(although sometimes the auditors have the opposite effect, but this is not
the fault of the standard)

I'm willing to listen... please show me where there are defined standards
for the actual quality of an item in 9000:2000.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Exactly my point. They got what they want. A big cheap boat.

It seems like Opal is the company with bad quality. Probably they don't
deliver according to the expectations.

Bjarke

wrote in message
oups.com...
Bjarke Christensen (nej, det skal selvfølgelig være med K da jeg er
dansker) wrote:
Isn't Bavaria bad reputation primarily among non-Bavaria-owners? Do you
know
of a Bavaria owner that is not satisfied ?

I don't know a Bavaria owner who dislikes the boat, in fact the owners
all seem to love them. I _do_ know a Bavaria owner who is very unhappy
with Opal, the UK importer.