Adrian Smith wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
oups.com...
Adrian Smith wrote:

Are we saying that modern EU production line boats are not as strong as
the
ones made in 'the good old days' when things was done proper:-)

Yes, and no. Some say that a heavily laid-up boat must be intrinsically
stronger and more seaworthy than a lightweight boat. Others argue that
if a lightweight boat has adequate strength in the necessary areas then
materials saving in areas where strength is not required is not a
problem.

I'm new here, but if the 'B' word is Beneteau

No, another B.


What manufacturer is the 'B' then.

What manufacturers should one avoid if any?

I think maybe Bavaria.

Speaking for myself I've never had problems on the three Bavaria's I've
sailed but I have a friend who had terrible problems with Opal the
British importer.

"Adrian Smith" wrote in message
...
"peter" wrote in message
ups.com...
Graham Frankland wrote:
a good 10-20 year old Hallberg Rassey, Contest, Rival, Westerly, Moody
etc. may have a few blisters but will still be stronger than many brand
new popular EU production line boats are today.

Oh no, here we go again :-)
Nobody mention the 'B' word...

Are we saying that modern EU production line boats are not as strong as
the ones made in 'the good old days' when things was done proper:-)
I'm new here, but if the 'B' word is Beneteau. How strong and what is the
durability of their hulls?
Adrian Smith

Yes and No. What's "done proper" as you put it, depends on the viewpoint
and proposed use. Not everyone (me included) can afford whatever our
lottery dream boat is, be it a HR, Rival Bowman, Pacific Seacraft or
whatever but, for some reason, we always seem to use them as a benchmark
when comparing "affordable" boats costing 75% less.

Under the EC Rules, boats are categorised for a purpose but, don't imagine
that because a boat may meet the stability/righting criteria for "A" Ocean
use, it's build quality is suitable for repeated heavy weather sailing or,
its design is suitable for extended offshore passages.

OTOH for the vast majority on a limited budget who mainly day or weekend
sail in coastal waters and have a two week summer holiday on board with the
kids, they're fine.

Graham.

Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

/Bjarke

wrote in message
ups.com...
Adrian Smith wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
oups.com...
Adrian Smith wrote:

Are we saying that modern EU production line boats are not as strong
as
the
ones made in 'the good old days' when things was done proper:-)

Yes, and no. Some say that a heavily laid-up boat must be intrinsically
stronger and more seaworthy than a lightweight boat. Others argue that
if a lightweight boat has adequate strength in the necessary areas then
materials saving in areas where strength is not required is not a
problem.

I'm new here, but if the 'B' word is Beneteau

No, another B.


What manufacturer is the 'B' then.

What manufacturers should one avoid if any?

I think maybe Bavaria.

Speaking for myself I've never had problems on the three Bavaria's I've
sailed but I have a friend who had terrible problems with Opal the
British importer.

I fly glassfibre aircraft, sailplanes actually - structure lifespan is
a topic of interest when you are at 20 000' above ground level flying
at 200 kph plus and the outside air temperature is below -15 degrees
Celcius.

The technical body that co-ordinates the efforts of a lot of research
and development around sailplanes ( OSTIV ) recently published a rather
reassuring article giving an estimated service lifespan of a glassfibre
sailplane of around half a million flying hours. and that was with a
safety factor of at least 1 order of magnitude.

Although yacht hulls are stressed by rigging and water loads I suspect
that the stresses involved ( in a normal cruising boat ) are somewhat
less than experienced by an aircraft structure. The wings on my 25m
span Nimbus regularly deflect by a metre or so in normal flight. Even
using the same figure of half a million hours one gets 47 odd years of
'use', not just sitting in a berth.

I would say that for all intents and purposes the useable lifespan of a
'well built' glassfibre hull is probably in the order of several
hundred years with only minimal attention to care.

Of course if you insist on building a hull only millimetres thick out
of Nomex, Kevlar, Carbon and other exotics, sail it in across Biscay in
a gale with only one hull of three in the water and driving through 5m
high swells then 'all bets are off' and you may well run into
mechanical limits of the structure.

Ian

Bjarke Christensen wrote:
Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

Would you mind telling us what's your opinion based at? I've never sailed a
Bavaria, but I've been to them in boat shows. It seemed to me that at least
deck-equipment were much better in Beneteau First -line than in Bavarias.
According to this wast experience I have - I'd have Beneteau First over
Bavaria anyday


--
Markus

Just the feel when touching the interior, the lockers, the wood and so on.
One thing I've noticed is that the floor of the Bavaria is more firm/stable
than the one of Beneteau. But I agree that it's totally subjective.

I'm in no doubt that the deck fitting of First is superior, but you have to
compare apples to apples, which in this case is Bavaria Cruiser to Beneteau
Oceanis.

Bjarke

"Markus Rautanen" wrote in message
...
Bjarke Christensen wrote:
Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

Would you mind telling us what's your opinion based at? I've never sailed
a Bavaria, but I've been to them in boat shows. It seemed to me that at
least deck-equipment were much better in Beneteau First -line than in
Bavarias. According to this wast experience I have - I'd have Beneteau
First over Bavaria anyday


--
Markus

You should compare modern GRP to boats made in
the 1960's through the early 1970's. Those hulls will
last 100 years or longer. They will certainly outlive you.

There is not enough data on newer hulls. However,
as long as you patch the cracks they should last just
as long--assuming you make it back to a travel lift
in time.

Although an argument could be made that flexing absorbs
energy, however, I find the concept disquieting.

Still, in either case, failures will occur due to repetitive
stresses. A solid hull in general will last longer than one
that will oil can. BTW, the SCRIMP boats seem
particularly strong.

I hope you are not thinking of taking that day sailor
offshore! Before you do that you should hitch a ride
a few trips to 1) see if you like it, 2) see if you can
handle the puking.

Finally, you need to stop cross posting if you want
answers in here.

"Adrian Smith" wrote
How long should a modern GRP hull lasts as compared to one made 10 years
ago?

And how old is considered too old when taking a boat offshore into
potential rough conditions?

It depends whether the Bavaria was made for Europe or the US.

I found the build quality in European Bavarias to be low grade.

For example. Life-line terminations. Good swages in the
US, cheap loops and clamps on a Bavaria I sailed in Barecelona.

"Bjarke Christensen" (nej,
Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

wrote in message

Adrian Smith wrote:
"peter" wrote
Adrian Smith wrote:
What manufacturers should one avoid if any?

I think maybe Bavaria.

Speaking for myself I've never had problems on the three Bavaria's I've
sailed but I have a friend who had terrible problems with Opal the
British importer.

I tought they were all build on the same factory in Germany ??

Bjarke


"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
It depends whether the Bavaria was made for Europe or the US.

I found the build quality in European Bavarias to be low grade.

For example. Life-line terminations. Good swages in the
US, cheap loops and clamps on a Bavaria I sailed in Barecelona.

"Bjarke Christensen" (nej,
Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

wrote in message

Adrian Smith wrote:
"peter" wrote
Adrian Smith wrote:
What manufacturers should one avoid if any?

I think maybe Bavaria.

Speaking for myself I've never had problems on the three Bavaria's I've
sailed but I have a friend who had terrible problems with Opal the
British importer.

Thats because your a fool.

What other brain dead retard would sign a newgroup like you do?

Get with it Gert you
dedumb****enfartenzootensnowinplowinbackwoddsdumbf uckinswedishloserwithoutaounceofbrintofartennoogen slackermofodipr****longwindenmother****er.

RB
35s5
NY