Rigging inspection service
 

If I could develop a fast and better way to detect cracks in rigging
while it is on the boat, would this service be useful enough to warrant
a person specializing in it?

Rigging inspection service
 

Still no answer to my query on which Beneteau First Series you
inspected?


RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

Read my post to you in rod rigging.

You can find the cracks optically too.

Amen!


wrote in message
oups.com...
If I could develop a fast and better way to detect cracks in rigging
while it is on the boat, would this service be useful enough to warrant
a person specializing in it?

Rigging inspection service
 

Rob:

I have no idea as I pay no more attention to them than to old Irwins or
old Ventures. It just looked lightly built with light guage aluminum
toerails that looked to be fastened with undersized rivets.

Rigging inspection service
 

I have no idea as I pay no more attention to them than to old Irwins or

old Ventures. It just looked lightly built with light guage aluminum
toerails that looked to be fastened with undersized rivets.


Well, now we can all know you're full of it. You noticed the rivets,
but not the BOAT? Oh, okay. How did you judge the rivent size...by the
heads? Did you pull one out to see it's diameter? Did you know that the
first series 35s5 has the toe rail fastened through the hull joint and
backed with SS fittings? Other builders simply bed the toe rail
(Typicall) through a cored deck with backing plates...which is weaker
and prone to leaks. Beneteau's method means fewer holes in the deck
(less leaks) and a stronger toe rail.

I'm really interested to hear your measured and studied response to the
above!


RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

And of course you saw no rivets that were undersized....the Beneteau
first series 35s5 doesn't use rivets.
Next!


RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

Sure looked like rivets to me, aluminum ones at that. Being an
engineer/physics person, construction details interest me, boat length
means little to me as I already have a boat although I might build a
smaller one.
Its possible the rivets were SS but they sure looked to have the same
finish as the toe rail. The toe rail was definitely light guage.

Rigging inspection service
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote:

And of course you saw no rivets that were undersized....the Beneteau
first series 35s5 doesn't use rivets.\

That's what I thought, they use SS screws and nuts with washers do they
not? However I seem to recall earlier Bennies with rivits.

Cheers
Marty

Rigging inspection service
 

That's what I thought, they use SS screws and nuts with washers do they

not? However I seem to recall earlier Bennies with rivits.


Anything's possible, but every first series I've seen had SS screws and
that's going back to the early First 38's. This fellow claimed he saw a
first series, then claimed it had undersized rivets after saying he
didn't know which boat he was actually on. All had toe rails that
looked identical to any others I'd had on my C&C. He claims to be an
engineer person, yet he was able to judge the rivets as undersized with
only seeing the tops and doesn't even know what they were made of,
except that they were finished to match the rail.
Yeah...some engineer type. Keep him away from my boat. I wonder what
kind of boat he'll claim to own.


RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

Rob:

I own an olod 28' S2

Rigging inspection service
 

There is a relation between rivet head size and rivet diameter in the
industry. Just like the relation between screw diameter and minimum screw
hole depth.

http://www.erivet.co.uk/standards.htm

http://www.mesteel.com/cgi-bin/w3-ms...s_fastener.htm

http://www.eos.org.eg/web_en/cat/21.060.40.html

Dave is a good engineer.

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
That's what I thought, they use SS screws and nuts with washers do they

not? However I seem to recall earlier Bennies with rivits.


Anything's possible, but every first series I've seen had SS screws and
that's going back to the early First 38's. This fellow claimed he saw a
first series, then claimed it had undersized rivets after saying he
didn't know which boat he was actually on. All had toe rails that
looked identical to any others I'd had on my C&C. He claims to be an
engineer person, yet he was able to judge the rivets as undersized with
only seeing the tops and doesn't even know what they were made of,
except that they were finished to match the rail.
Yeah...some engineer type. Keep him away from my boat. I wonder what
kind of boat he'll claim to own.


RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

I assume you mean the 8.6. Never heard an S2 owner call their boat a 28
or 36? Welcome to the world of the leakiest windows in the free world.
I have turned down 3 S2's for brokerage due to water damage from those
ports. Otherwise an okay boat though even slower than John's Catalina
28. Not my cup of tea...left all that stuff behind with my Catalina
27...thank god!

RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

My S2 is the 8.5M. Odd, my windows dont leak. I have heard of this
problem but have not had it happen.
My comments about the toerail on the Beneteau are based soley on a look
at from the exterior as I have noted before. I noted them because the
rivets had the same aluminum looking finish as the aluminum toerail and
I wondered if this was due to compatability problems with ss bolts and
an Al toerail although this was never a prob for me. I further
wondered if these rivets (or bolts although they looked like rivets)
were an Al alloy I had heard about with tensile strength greater than
steel.
There may NOT be anything wrong with rivets but in the late 80s riveted
toerails had a bad reputation for failure with rivets popping when the
toerail got hit. By the 90s, perhaps the problem was solved. I had
seen such rivets on old Irwins and the el cheapo Ventures.

Rigging inspection service
 

Also bear in mind that blind rivets are but one style. In short, you
can't tell much of anything about a rivet by looking at the head,
except to know that the head is bigger than the shank.


Engineer types take notice! But maybe he quickly reached down, yanked
it out, measured and tested to see if it was high grade SS and so on.
Being the Engineer type I bet he also counted them and observed the
spacing for load distribution.
Yup...he's the engineer type alright.

RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

I never heard anybody call the 8.5 M S2 slow. Interesting, is the 8.6
that different?

Rigging inspection service
 

I never heard anybody call the 8.5 M S2 slow. Interesting, is the 8.6
that different?

Maybe everyone you know sails Coronado 27s.
On the LIS your boat is rated 192. That's slow. A C&C 27 rates a 180. A
Cal 28-2 rates 180. Hunter 28.5 rates 183. J 28 rates 177. Tartan 28
rates 180.
Need I go on?


RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message
...


Also bear in mind that blind rivets are but one style. In short, you
can't tell much of anything about a rivet by looking at the head,
except to know that the head is bigger than the shank.

One can also tell by looking at the head if it is a blind rivet or not, the
type of material, what type of load it is designed for (sheer vs tension),
and a whole host of other factors.

Maybe you can't tell much.

Anemia takes it toll.

Amen!

Rigging inspection service
 

One can also tell by looking at the head if it is a blind rivet or not,
the
type of material, what type of load it is designed for (sheer vs
tension),
and a whole host of other factors.


I guess this would all be very interesting if only my 35s5 had rivets
in the first place. It might also be of some interest if our resident
"engineer type" had a clue as to what boat he was on.
Ah well. I think this one's finished.

RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

When it comes to engineering I'd trust his opinion over yours.
You can only rely on other's opinions and experience or very simple first
observations on your part.
You can't deal in higher order abstractions or the application of principles
to problems.
In short, you have the problem solving skills of a chimpanzee.

Amen!

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
One can also tell by looking at the head if it is a blind rivet or not,
the
type of material, what type of load it is designed for (sheer vs
tension),
and a whole host of other factors.


I guess this would all be very interesting if only my 35s5 had rivets
in the first place. It might also be of some interest if our resident
"engineer type" had a clue as to what boat he was on.
Ah well. I think this one's finished.

RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

Right you are Marty,

The early models used the rivets and were a source of trouble. They
changed over to the bolts. Seems to have cured the problems???

Rigging inspection service
 

All the years I owned my boat I never once looked up her rating cuz I
never wanted to race. However, recently, she did go from Clearwater to
Shell Pt, Fl under sail, 130 miles in just under 28 hours which is
pretty good for a 28' sailboat for that far.
Rob seems so concerned about how hard his rod is and how long his
"boat" is its funny. We all havta compensate for our "shortcomings"
somehow but mostly we arent so obvious.
Seein that he's so into "style", not that theres anything wrong with
that, he oughta jes git some copies of GQ and put em next to the head.
His buddies would all feel at home.

Rigging inspection service
 

Bob Crantz wrote:
When it comes to engineering I'd trust his opinion over yours.
You can only rely on other's opinions and experience or very simple first
observations on your part.

I don't think Bubbles can make any observations at all,
outside the Matrix.

You can't deal in higher order abstractions or the application of principles
to problems.
In short, you have the problem solving skills of a chimpanzee.


Nah, any chimpanzee would have better grasp of principle &
more relevant technical info off the top of his head.

DSK

Rigging inspection service
 

OTOH, mine is old and worn out from use and sometimes sorta slow.
These have never been problems.

Rigging inspection service
 

When it comes to engineering I'd trust his opinion over yours.


Yep...trust the guy who observed rivets that may or may not have been
SS on a boat he can't idenitify....though he somehow recalls it's a 1st
series Beneteu, which did not have rivets.

Sorry, Bob. Wrong wagon to hitch onto.

RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

don't think Bubbles can make any observations at all,
outside the Matrix.

I can make two very valid observations!

1) Your last cruising boat was a Hunter 19!!!!
2) Your current cruising boat is a powerboat!!!!

Okie dokie!!! Sorry, Doug.

RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

The early models used the rivets and were a source of trouble. They
changed over to the bolts. Seems to have cured the problems???

Even this wrong, Beneteau CONTINUES to use rivets on boats like the 352
built as recently as 2000. But not on ANY modern first series boats
ever.
You clowns just don't get that a First series is not a Oceanus, a
Mercedes is not a Chrysler and a Lincoln Town car is not a Pinto.

The more you all chatter, the more certain it is that you know nothing
about these boats or even your own.

RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

Bob is actually a good guy. He just likes to troll everyone with his boat.
But look at what he is getting: others are researching his boat for him,
providing him with information, good/bad critcism, etc. In a twisted way the
topics are sailing related, there is learning on both sides.
If you don't take it personally, it is entertaining and educational. I do
have to hand it to Bob, he puts himself out there, mistakes and all, takes
it all in stride and keeps coming back. You have to admit that he is right a
good number of times.
He does have a "nice" boat and it is fast. Whether it's "better" than anyone
else's is a matter of opinion based upon individual criteria.
Those Beneteau owners must be in a tither with him as point man for the
bunch! Thank God he doesn't own a Pacific Seacraft.
I am concerned, though, about the light air Western Long Island Sound PHRF
for his boat. It knocks it somewhere in the 160 range. Ouch!

Amen!


wrote in message
oups.com...
All the years I owned my boat I never once looked up her rating cuz I
never wanted to race. However, recently, she did go from Clearwater to
Shell Pt, Fl under sail, 130 miles in just under 28 hours which is
pretty good for a 28' sailboat for that far.
Rob seems so concerned about how hard his rod is and how long his
"boat" is its funny. We all havta compensate for our "shortcomings"
somehow but mostly we arent so obvious.
Seein that he's so into "style", not that theres anything wrong with
that, he oughta jes git some copies of GQ and put em next to the head.
His buddies would all feel at home.

Rigging inspection service
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
I never heard anybody call the 8.5 M S2 slow. Interesting, is the 8.6
that different?

Maybe everyone you know sails Coronado 27s.
On the LIS your boat is rated 192. That's slow. A C&C 27 rates a 180. A
Cal 28-2 rates 180. Hunter 28.5 rates 183. J 28 rates 177. Tartan 28
rates 180.
Need I go on?


RB
35s5
NY

I thought you had something to do to keep you busy?

Rigging inspection service
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
The early models used the rivets and were a source of trouble. They
changed over to the bolts. Seems to have cured the problems???

Even this wrong, Beneteau CONTINUES to use rivets on boats like the 352
built as recently as 2000. But not on ANY modern first series boats
ever.
You clowns just don't get that a First series is not a Oceanus, a
Mercedes is not a Chrysler and a Lincoln Town car is not a Pinto.

The more you all chatter, the more certain it is that you know nothing
about these boats or even your own.

RB
35s5
NY

Why on Yachtworld are the Oceanus generally more money than similarly
sized and aged Firsts?

You are not comparing Mercedes and Lincolns, your comparing K cars and
Reliants.

Rigging inspection service
 

I'm having fun. In a few days I'll leave to sail south again.

Rigging inspection service
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
I never heard anybody call the 8.5 M S2 slow. Interesting, is the 8.6
that different?


Talk to a racer with vast experience like bubbles, you'll learn a lot!

Bwahahahhahhahhahhahahhahhahahhahahhahahahahahha

John Cairns

Rigging inspection service
 

don't think Bubbles can make any observations at all,
outside the Matrix.

"Capt." Rob wrote:
I can make two very valid observations!

1) Your last cruising boat was a Hunter 19!!!!

Which sailed more miles than you ever will, often in weather
that would have you calling for a new diaper


2) Your current cruising boat is a powerboat!!!!


And it actually cruises, too. In fact, with it's light draft
and low bridge clearance it goes many places that a sailboat
cannot... which was part of our intentions.

Okie dokie!!! Sorry, Doug.


Are you trying to pretend to be a human being, apologizing
and all? Don't bother, you don't fool anybody. Go back to
playing with your sock puppets.

DSK

Rigging inspection service
 

Why on Yachtworld are the Oceanus generally more money than similarly
sized and aged Firsts?


Are you seriously asking this question??? Good lord. It's becasue
cruisers outsell racers by a wide margine. Cost is effected by demand
as much as quality. The cruising Beneteau's are the company's bread and
butter both to private buyers and charter companies. 90% of sailors
just want a comfy boat and the first series puts performance 1st.
Racers also date faster and have less market value in most cases. Look
at the price of a C&C 34R vs and XL version.
Hope you're getting a clue, but I doubt it.

RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

You are not comparing Mercedes and Lincolns, your comparing K cars and
Reliants.

Not even an intelligent comparison there. Did you know that the K car
platform was used for the ahead of it's time Mitsubishi Starion? Of
course you didn't. Another area where you know zilch.
The question about cruisers outselling races was a doozy.

RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Why on Yachtworld are the Oceanus generally more money than similarly
sized and aged Firsts?


Are you seriously asking this question??? Good lord. It's becasue
cruisers outsell racers by a wide margine. Cost is effected by demand
as much as quality. The cruising Beneteau's are the company's bread and
butter both to private buyers and charter companies. 90% of sailors
just want a comfy boat and the first series puts performance 1st.
Racers also date faster and have less market value in most cases. Look
at the price of a C&C 34R vs and XL version.
Hope you're getting a clue, but I doubt it.

RB
35s5
NY

Why do you persist with the insults? It can't be good for your
business. Anyone googles you and these all come up. The "troll" excuse
doesn't work.

My question was based on your claim that your boat is better and worth
more than the Oceanus series which you said were poorly built yada,
yada, yada.

I guess that wasn't right?

Rigging inspection service
 

Why do you persist with the insults?


Gary, do you not read? Look at this forum. It's mostly insults. Beyond
that you're obviously a person of limited intelligence. Sadly this has
not obstructed you from forming opinions, all quite laughable.
My business is just fine. I own, among other things, a nice sailboat
and it's paid for.

RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

My question was based on your claim that your boat is better and worth
more than the Oceanus series which you said were poorly built yada,
yada, yada.


It is worth more, though that concept only means money to your sort.
It's certainly built better. The Oceanus are built okay, but suffer
from pretty poor fit and finish. Sadly this has extended to the current
First series boats in recent years. Why don't you ask a Beneteau dealer
about the efforts to make improvements in US boats or better still,
find a nice 345 or 35s5 and compare for yourself. Nothing beats having
a clue, Gary. Try it and then get back to me.

RB
35s5
NY

Rigging inspection service
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Why do you persist with the insults?


Gary, do you not read? Look at this forum. It's mostly insults. Beyond
that you're obviously a person of limited intelligence. Sadly this has
not obstructed you from forming opinions, all quite laughable.
My business is just fine. I own, among other things, a nice sailboat
and it's paid for.

RB
35s5
NY

You are the only one being that way so consistently. The others don't
seem to be playing your game. Odd.

Rigging inspection service
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote:



Look at this forum. It's mostly insults. Beyond
that you're obviously a person of limited intelligence.

Why you worthless piece of a pale pigs ear! I resent that remark, I
NEVER insult anyone!

Cheers
Marty

Rigging inspection service
 

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
nk.net...
Bob is actually a good guy.

yeah, a good guy who wrote;

''Go have sex with your mother again.
Your father can hold her down while your
sister watches!
Is that what you wanted, dickless? ''


RB