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Holy Crap!!!!
The Catalina 28 Interior...
http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...a/28salon.jpeg Why not just pay for a kick in the balls and save some money!!??? RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
Holy Moley... It Looks Just Like the Interior of the 35s5
Those French *******s copy all of the Cheap American designs! CM "Capt. Rob" wrote in message oups.com... The Catalina 28 Interior... http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...a/28salon.jpeg Why not just pay for a kick in the balls and save some money!!??? RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
This....
http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...a/28salon.jpeg Looks like this???? http://www.floridaboats.net/images/3.../slides/20.JPG You sure know boats, Mooron! How's that shabby interior on your Nordica holding up? Finish the refit? RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
Capt. Rob wrote:
This.... http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...a/28salon.jpeg Looks like this???? http://www.floridaboats.net/images/3.../slides/20.JPG You sure know boats, Mooron! How's that shabby interior on your Nordica holding up? Finish the refit? RB 35s5 NY Pretty much. One is a better photo and the boat is a little bigger but they are pretty much the same. Beneteau and Catalina and Hunter are all in the same league basically. ompare the 28 foot Bene and you won't see much difference or the 35 foot Catalina and Hunter. They are all mid price production boats with little to tell them apart. Even the dealers work hard to find real differences as selling points. |
Holy Crap!!!!
Beneteau and Catalina and Hunter are all in the same league basically.
ompare the 28 foot Bene and you won't see much difference or the 35 foot Catalina and Hunter. They are all mid price production boats with little to tell them apart. Even the dealers work hard to find real differences as selling points. It's really amazing that folks like Gary have the guts to yap about boats they never sailed and probably never even stepped aboard. Even sadder is the comment about dealers. What dealer has a hard time telling the differences between Catalina and Beneteau First series? The first clue that they are not the same is that the First series are substantially faster. Catalina makes nothing like them. They don't look alike, and they certainly don't sail alike. Gary suggests that the Philip Stark interior with it's curved surfaces, deco coach liner and honeycomb bulkheads is in the same league. I would hope that a dealer would know that the Beneteau's are better sailing boats, even today. But in the case of my 35s5, did you know that it cost 40K more than a Catalina 36 new? Did you know that it was priced slightly higher than Tartans and Sabres in 1990? Not only has Catalina and Hunter never built a boat like the 35s5, but the new First series boats will also outsail any Catalina or Hunter by a wide margin. What dealer doesn't know this? What dealer doesn't know about the chainplate arrangement on a Beneteau? Rod rigging? Fractional rigs? The unique hunter rigs? The Beneteau solid hulls? Gary must meet some ignorant dealers...and they appear to be teaching him well. RB 35s5...former owner of a Catalina..when I didn't know any better. NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
"Capt. Rob" wrote
Looks like this???? http://www.floridaboats.net/images/3.../slides/20.JPG Nope, Cat looks better to me but hard to tell cuz of the poor photography. What's the big chrome tube in the middle, a vent for the holding tank? |
Holy Crap!!!!
"Capt. Rob" wrote
The first clue that they are not the same is that the First series are substantially faster. What do you consider "substantially faster"? 20 kts faster? Why quibble over a 2 or 3 knot difference when a swimming pig is faster than either one? Jeeeze a big-assed bird farm can do 50 for weeks on end. |
Holy Crap!!!!
Nope, Cat looks better to me but hard to tell cuz of the poor
photography. What's the big chrome tube in the middle, a vent for the holding tank? Bwahahahahahaha! He's probably serious! Meanwhile it's good to see some folks prefer carpeting in their boats like Vito! Oh, and a pig swims at about 2 MPH maximum, so add that to the long long list of things you nothing about...just like boats! RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
Think of the interior of Flash Gordon's rocketship.
You can think of the exterior too! Emporer Ming "Vito" wrote in message ... "Capt. Rob" wrote Looks like this???? http://www.floridaboats.net/images/3.../slides/20.JPG Nope, Cat looks better to me but hard to tell cuz of the poor photography. What's the big chrome tube in the middle, a vent for the holding tank? |
Holy Crap!!!!
Capt. Rob wrote:
It's really amazing that folks like Gary have the guts to yap about boats they never sailed and probably never even stepped aboard. Sure, I've never ridden in a Ford or Chev either. Even sadder is the comment about dealers. What dealer has a hard time telling the differences between Catalina and Beneteau First series? It easy, they have the brand on the side. Try from a couple hundred yards. The first clue that they are not the same is that the First series are substantially faster. Catalina makes nothing like them. Debatable. They don't look alike, and they certainly don't sail alike. Gary suggests that the Philip Stark interior with it's curved surfaces, deco coach liner and honeycomb bulkheads is in the same league. Tacky. Trailer park. Common. They all have curved surfaces. Honeycomb started with Rangers and Soverels back in the mid 70s. I would hope that a dealer would know that the Beneteau's are better sailing boats, even today. Debatable. But in the case of my 35s5, did you know that it cost 40K more than a Catalina 36 new? My quick research (which you can duplicate) on Yacht World: All Catalinas, Hunters and Beneteaus between 34 and 36 feet and 1990 -1992 indicated these price ranges: Catalina: $21k - $94K Hunter: $49k - $85k Beneteau: $59k -$129k (all the beneteaus over $88k were the Oceanus series starting with the 350) The 35s5 ranged from $60k - $88k Did you know that it was priced slightly higher than Tartans and Sabres in 1990? There were only two Tartans in my search $79k and $114k, and one Sabre at $119k. There were dozens of benehuntalinas! Not only has Catalina and Hunter never built a boat like the 35s5, but the new First series boats will also outsail any Catalina or Hunter by a wide margin. What dealer doesn't know this? What dealer doesn't know about the chainplate arrangement on a Beneteau? Rod rigging? Fractional rigs? The unique hunter rigs? The Beneteau solid hulls? Gary must meet some ignorant dealers...and they appear to be teaching him well. RB 35s5...former owner of a Catalina..when I didn't know any better. NY Gaz Without any nasty comments. Just facts. Catalina 27 - the most popular boat in the world. Over 7000 built and they have even circumnavigated! |
Holy Crap!!!!
It easy, they have the brand on the side. Try from a couple hundred
yards. Sorry, Gary. You dug your grave, now you can dig your way out. The Catalina's looking nothing like the euro styled Beneteau. In fact everyone here has had a strong for or against opinion regarding the style of my boat inside and out. It does not look like a Catalina in any way and no one, except you has ever suggested that they do. Catalina makes nothing like them. Debatable. Go ahead and TRY to debate it. What Catalina between 30 and 40 feet offers the performance of the 35s5? None. In fact, some might even use the S&S designed Catalina as the ONLY design that sails anything like a First series 35s5. You haven't sailed them so you're just talking out of your arse. There were only two Tartans in my search $79k and $114k, and one Sabre at $119k. There were dozens of benehuntalinas! Of course. Do you know ANYthing about boats and builders? Tartan is a tiny builder compared to Beneteau. Beneteau is the largest sailboat builder in the world. Catalina and Hunter are also good sized builders. Do you even know that Beneteau has a premium brand well above anything that Tartan builds? I looked at and sailed a 1988 Tartan 34, which could have been mine for about 65K. That's what people are paying. The Tartan 34 had lesser fit and finish, a smaller cabin, a horrible helm and a beautiful classic exterior...which did not help it to sail as well as the 35s5. Experience compared to your "magazine knowledge." Just facts. Catalina 27 - the most popular boat in the world. Over 7000 built and they have even circumnavigated! I'm the former owner of a Catalina 27. Owner her for 5 years. She was fun and cheap to own. But I wouldn't confuse or compare one, or anything Catalina builds, with the First series Racer/Cruisers from Beneteau. They look nothing alike and have much different types of performance. The mid 80's to mid 90's First series were also built to a higher standard. You COULD compare to the Oceanus line to Catalina on the other hand, though most would agree that most of the Oceanus line outsails the US Catalinas as well. I wonder if you can figure out why the largest sailboat builder in the world also makes some of the fastest cruiser/racers for the mid market? I doubt it, especially if you think this.... http://www.ays.com/new/C3614.jpg looks like this.... http://www.carrybit.de/img/35s5-spin.jpg Don't see a difference in coach roof, hull or rig???....ahh well. Enjoy your Catalina 27. Mine was a 1973 with Atomic 4 called Yoda. She cost me just 5K....a bit less than the tax on my 1st 35s5. RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
Capt. Rob wrote:
I'm the former owner of a Catalina 27. Owner her for 5 years. She was fun and cheap to own. But I wouldn't confuse or compare one, or anything Catalina builds, with the First series Racer/Cruisers from Beneteau. They look nothing alike and have much different types of performance. The mid 80's to mid 90's First series were also built to a higher standard. You COULD compare to the Oceanus line to Catalina on the other hand, though most would agree that most of the Oceanus line outsails the US Catalinas as well. I wonder if you can figure out why the largest sailboat builder in the world also makes some of the fastest cruiser/racers for the mid market? I doubt it, especially if you think this.... http://www.ays.com/new/C3614.jpg looks like this.... http://www.carrybit.de/img/35s5-spin.jpg Don't see a difference in coach roof, hull or rig???....ahh well. Enjoy your Catalina 27. Mine was a 1973 with Atomic 4 called Yoda. She cost me just 5K....a bit less than the tax on my 1st 35s5. RB 35s5 NY I don't own a Catalina 27. It was just an interesting fact like the rest of my comments. Like I said, you can check the stats yourself at Yachtworld. Similar boats. Similar prices. Indistinguishable from a distance. |
Holy Crap!!!!
Similar
boats. Similar prices. Indistinguishable from a distance of 25 miles. I guess everyone here would agree that the Euro-styled Beneteau's look JUST like the Catalina's!!!? Okay...from 25 miles away....nope. I can still tell the difference. RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
Capt. Rob wrote:
Similar boats. Similar prices. Indistinguishable from a distance of 25 miles. I guess everyone here would agree that the Euro-styled Beneteau's look JUST like the Catalina's!!!? Okay...from 25 miles away....nope. I can still tell the difference. RB 35s5 NY I see Beneteau recalled the furler on the first few years of 35s5. It seems it was the Isofurl. Has yours been changed? http://hisse-et-oh.com/forum/index.p...a62110d585e5ba Sorry if you can't read French. Basically, if you have an 88, 89 or maybe a 90 35s5 or a 98 or 99 35s5, contact Beneteau. Gaz |
Holy Crap!!!!
I see Beneteau recalled the furler on the first few years of 35s5. It
seems it was the Isofurl. Has yours been changed? Another great reason to buy a boat from an active builder. Gave Beneteau the hull number and they reported all warranty work done, including the furler changout in 1996. RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
Capt. Rob wrote:
I see Beneteau recalled the furler on the first few years of 35s5. It seems it was the Isofurl. Has yours been changed? Another great reason to buy a boat from an active builder. Gave Beneteau the hull number and they reported all warranty work done, including the furler changout in 1996. RB 35s5 NY That is nice. |
Holy Crap!!!!
"Gary" wrote in message news:wCRuf.18706$tl.2250@pd7tw3no... Gaz Without any nasty comments. Just facts. Catalina 27 - the most popular boat in the world. Over 7000 built and they have even circumnavigated! But they don't have 'Euro style' . Scotty |
Holy Crap!!!!
they have even circumnavigated!
But they don't have 'any style' Well put. RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
"Capt. Rob" wrote
What's the big chrome tube in the middle, a vent for the holding tank? Bwahahahahahaha! He's probably serious! Ooops, sorry, I forgot that LIS sailors vent their tanksinto the cabin. They like the smell - helps cover the natural scent of the region. Meanwhile it's good to see somefolks prefer carpeting in their boats like Vito! Sure do! Warmer on bare feet! Looked at a Benny-toe once but owner had removed some inner panels made to look like wood. What scared me away is being able to see daylight through the thin f'glass on the hull. Oh, and a pig swims at about 2 MPH maximum, .... I'll have to bow to your vastly greater knowledge about racing pigs. Must have been French pigs or not very motivated. Add a gator and see .... |
Holy Crap!!!!
What scared me away is being able to
see daylight through the thin f'glass on the hull. I can see daylight through the hull of just about any glass hull, dopey...unless she's been painted with a lot of coats of awlgrip. You sure know boats! RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
Say what???
My boat has 3/4" of handlaid mat & woven roving above the waterline. No way you'll see daylight. The 35s5 has less than that below the waterline. 35s5...French for Flimsy! BTW- 1" thick below the waterline on my Nordica. CM "Capt. Rob" wrote in message oups.com... What scared me away is being able to see daylight through the thin f'glass on the hull. I can see daylight through the hull of just about any glass hull, dopey...unless she's been painted with a lot of coats of awlgrip. You sure know boats! RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
My boat has 3/4" of handlaid mat & woven roving above the waterline. No
way you'll see daylight. The 35s5 has less than that below the waterline. You can see bright sunlight through an inch of fiberglass, Mooron. I've been aboard some old-time Albergs and such and you can see light. Means nothing of course. You can also see light through bullet proof glass. I helped install a radar on a Sweden last season....plenty of light coming through the hull of the proven blue water sailor as well. Vito is just an idiot and likes to prove it often. 1" thick was because no one knew how touch glass could be at that time. My old Catalina also had some pretty thick sections. Nowadays they're building thin strong hulls like mine and that's yet another reason why my boat is the better sailor. Plus my boat doesn't rot inside like the Nordica...don't make me post those pics of the Nordica frame rotting! RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message ups.com... You can see bright sunlight through an inch of fiberglass, Mooron. I've been aboard some old-time Albergs and such and you can see light. Means nothing of course. You can also see light through bullet proof glass. I helped install a radar on a Sweden last season....plenty of light coming through the hull of the proven blue water sailor as well. That light coming through depends on the woven material. Fibreglass matt is usually white, so it reflects all light. The reason light gets through is because the weave has gaps in it. The reason there are gaps is that the glass isn't laid up properly, it is stretched beyond specification. Amen! |
Holy Crap!!!!
What scared me away is being able to
see daylight through the thin f'glass on the hull. "Capt." Rob wrote I can see daylight through the hull of just about any glass hull, dopey...unless she's been painted with a lot of coats of awlgrip. You sure know boats! Capt.Mooron wrote: Say what??? My boat has 3/4" of handlaid mat & woven roving above the waterline. No way you'll see daylight. Depends on the resin, how it was laid up, and whether or not it's painted. Fiberglass is, after all, glass. I've seen very well made structural panels of fiberglass (holding up a roof over an industrial plant, one that had trucks driving over it) that were about 2" ( 5 cm) thick, and were translucent enough to spot the sun. OTOH a layup that has milky resin, bubbles, impurities, etc etc, will be less clear. Then again, some types of resin are not clear... it's important to know what you're looking at, specifically. But just because a fiberglass panel is "too clear" doesn't mean it's flimsy. You'll often hear talk about how older boats are built so thick because "they didn't know how strong fiberglass is" which is baloney. Back in the early 1950s, when the Navy began buying fiberglass boats, they commissioned a series of engineering studies of the material which (as gov't research) became public domain. Anybody who bothered to look it up could find out exactly the properties of several different types of laminate. And thick isn't necessarily strong, most resin is brittle. To make fiberglass strong, you want a very high thread/resin ratio and tight interstitial bonding (vacuum bagging helps with both). A very thick fiberglass layup that used a lot of random strand (matt or chopper gun), cheap cloth or no woven roving at all, poor bonding, poorly catalyzed resin, etc etc, can just about fall apart if you look at it funny. Believe it or not, laminated wood is more reliable structure... and people who should know say it takes less maintenance. There have been some very fancy & fast boats built of wood laminated over foam core... seems bizarre to me, but it works! .... The 35s5 has less than that below the waterline. 35s5...French for Flimsy! I thought it was French for "extra garlic on my snails, please." BTW- 1" thick below the waterline on my Nordica. That's so the ice floes won't cut right thru. Helps keep out the leapord seals & narwhals, too! ;) Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
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The reason light gets through is
because the weave has gaps in it. The reason there are gaps is that the glass isn't laid up properly, it is stretched beyond specification. So Sweden, Pearson, C&C, Catalina, Beneteau, Tartan, Vindo, Bristol and Alberg all have hulls stretched beyond spec? And I do mean EVERY hull because I can see light through portions of just about any boat's hull. Again, the only hulls that I've ever seen to stop light were awlgripped, wood or steel. RB 35s5 NY |
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Bob Crantz wrote:
That light coming through depends on the woven material. Fibreglass matt is usually white, so it reflects all light. That's the wax holding it together. .... The reason light gets through is because the weave has gaps in it. The reason there are gaps is that the glass isn't laid up properly, it is stretched beyond specification. Maybe, maybe not. The ratings on fiberglass cloth tell how long the component strands are.... longer is better of course... cheap cloth or roving, such as used for auto-body repairs, will be made up of a lot of short strands spun into yarn to make up the weave, but it's not as strong as the same weight of cloth with more continuous strand. Very interesting stuff, I'm learning. DSK |
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I've made aircraft radomes out of extremely high quality fibreglass. You
couldn't see through .05" of the stuff. Amen! "DSK" wrote in message .. . Bob Crantz wrote: That light coming through depends on the woven material. Fibreglass matt is usually white, so it reflects all light. That's the wax holding it together. .... The reason light gets through is because the weave has gaps in it. The reason there are gaps is that the glass isn't laid up properly, it is stretched beyond specification. Maybe, maybe not. The ratings on fiberglass cloth tell how long the component strands are.... longer is better of course... cheap cloth or roving, such as used for auto-body repairs, will be made up of a lot of short strands spun into yarn to make up the weave, but it's not as strong as the same weight of cloth with more continuous strand. Very interesting stuff, I'm learning. DSK |
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Bob Crantz wrote:
I've made aircraft radomes out of extremely high quality fibreglass. You couldn't see through .05" of the stuff. If you could see thru it, it wouldn't be stealth technology, would it?? DSK |
Holy Crap!!!!
I've made aircraft radomes out of extremely high quality fibreglass.
You couldn't see through .05" of the stuff. Please don't tell me my 35s5 hull is weaker than .05" radome material!!!! RB 35s5 NY |
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Of interest:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/c...TRY=1&SRETRY=0 http://oemagazine.com/fromTheMagazin.../testtalk.html Amen! "DSK" wrote in message .. . Bob Crantz wrote: I've made aircraft radomes out of extremely high quality fibreglass. You couldn't see through .05" of the stuff. If you could see thru it, it wouldn't be stealth technology, would it?? DSK |
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"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message ... The opacity has nothing to do with either quality or strength. Tell these guys then: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/c...TRY=1&SRETRY=0 http://oemagazine.com/fromTheMagazine/sep05/testtal Amen! |
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Why? They agree with me that only failed (cracked and broken)
fiberglass will have less transparency than good, strong, unbroken fiberglass. When the fibers break, they expose unwetted glass, which is translucent. He's right, Bob. And all this proves that my thin 35s5 hull may be a good deal tougher than Mooron's 3/4" hull, though probably less tough than those radomes. RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
Your hull is as strong as jet turbine blades. In fact, only one substance
known to man is tougher. Amen! "Capt. Rob" wrote in message oups.com... Why? They agree with me that only failed (cracked and broken) fiberglass will have less transparency than good, strong, unbroken fiberglass. When the fibers break, they expose unwetted glass, which is translucent. He's right, Bob. And all this proves that my thin 35s5 hull may be a good deal tougher than Mooron's 3/4" hull, though probably less tough than those radomes. RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
Bob Crantz wrote:
Your hull is as strong as jet turbine blades. In fact, only one substance known to man is tougher. The calluses on his knuckles? Cheers Marty |
Holy Crap!!!!
"Capt. Rob" wrote
I can see daylight through the hull of just about any glass hull, dopey... Nope! No light thru my old Catalina 30. No light thru my neighbor's Cal 30. |
Holy Crap!!!!
Nope! No light thru my old Catalina 30. No light thru my neighbor's
Cal 30. Bull....I owned a Catalina 27 for 5 seasons, and worked an an 88' Catalina 30 last summer. I could see daylight with either, especially in the aft sections. Same deal on the old Cal 29 that's parked right next to me. And same deal for a Sweden 39 I put a new head in last season. Doesn't matter. Light coming through does not mean the material is poor, weak and so on...especially if light transmission is uniform across the area. RB 35s5 NY |
Holy Crap!!!!
"DSK" wrote
If you could see thru it, it wouldn't be stealth technology, would it?? Maybe. The stuff I'm used to reflects a certain % of incident radar waves. We put a screen 1/4 wavelength inside that reflects the same (1/2 wave total). The two cancel in the radar's reciever. |
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"Bob Crantz"
Your hull is as strong as jet turbine blades. Which come apart with great regularity ... like it they hit a bird. |
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"Swab Rob" wrote And same deal for a Sweden 39 I put a new head in last season. Why, did you sit on it and break it? Scotty |
Holy Crap!!!!
OK, Y'all, here's the physics. The fiberglass fibers would be nearly
clear if they were not small enough to scatter light. Imbedding them in a matrix of resin that has an index of refraction close to that of the glass reduces the scatter and makes it seem more transparent. "Opaqueness" of some hulls is most likely due to excessive scatter from impefections in the resin. Thus, you might expect a very well built hull to be nearly transparent except for some tinting due to absorption of color. This makes me wonder if it might be possible to make a hull bottom nearly transparent. |
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