The "Practical" sailor?
 

my impression of the
Beneteau is essentially my impression of eurostyling in general. Its
like listening to Abba and calling it music. Yeah, its fun now, but
really no substance.
My impression of Catalina is that they've figured out how to do
something well without costing a fortune. They are not ultra-expensive

but truly functional at reasonable cost, the essence of good
engineering.



The above scary comments come from a sock-puppet or maybe a new voice
here...who knows? But it does bring forth an interesting question. Why
do you sail? I certainly don't want a "practical" boat. I've already
owned a Catalina 27 and Pearson 30....both very practical. They weren't
the best sailboats, not too fast or fun, but solid and capable boats.
Why buy a "flashy" fast boat? Why listen to Abba?
Well, maybe because you like to "sail" and your tastes in music are
without bounds and pretensions. It could be because you've sailed a
Catalina 27, 28, 30, 34, 36 and 400 and found them "practical" to the
point of being soulless. Much as I loath to say it, Donal was right. A
boat like his first series IS more fun...not because of the styling,
but because it has speed and subtle feedback missing from more
"practical" designs. Once you sail a good performing boat, piloting a
Catalina is almost a chore. If you're older, or just out for the
sights, a sailing pig may be fine...and I have no problem with that.
But if the thrill of sailing itself is what you crave, the word
"practical" doesn't work. Speed is all about fads and what's current.
The new C&Cs are distinctive as are the 1st series as are any
performance boat. The 35s5 is OLD compared to them, but still holds her
own.
So...if you love sailing (something people like Scotty, Jeff, and John
C. would know nothing about), you buy a boat that sails well and
fast...a boat with a sensitive helm that will challenge and grow with
you.
And if you want to just bounce around out there, hoping for occasional
conditions that will get your tub moving like a sailboat...a Catalina
28, Siedlemann 30, Hunter, Beneteau Oceanus, O'Day, PDQ 36, or Coronado
will do just fine.
Some of us want a bit more....and enjoy listening to an old Abba song
from time to time. Fun aint a crime, but practicality sure shouldn't
mix with passion when it can be avoided.


RB
35s5...a fun boat with Abba on the Ipod
NY

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
my impression of the
Beneteau is essentially my impression of eurostyling in general. Its
like listening to Abba and calling it music. Yeah, its fun now, but
really no substance.
My impression of Catalina is that they've figured out how to do
something well without costing a fortune. They are not ultra-expensive

but truly functional at reasonable cost, the essence of good
engineering.



The above scary comments come from a sock-puppet or maybe a new voice
here...who knows? But it does bring forth an interesting question. Why
do you sail? I certainly don't want a "practical" boat. I've already
owned a Catalina 27 and Pearson 30....both very practical. They weren't
the best sailboats, not too fast or fun, but solid and capable boats.
Why buy a "flashy" fast boat? Why listen to Abba?
Well, maybe because you like to "sail" and your tastes in music are
without bounds and pretensions. It could be because you've sailed a
Catalina 27, 28, 30, 34, 36 and 400 and found them "practical" to the
point of being soulless. Much as I loath to say it, Donal was right. A
boat like his first series IS more fun...not because of the styling,
but because it has speed and subtle feedback missing from more
"practical" designs. Once you sail a good performing boat, piloting a
Catalina is almost a chore. If you're older, or just out for the
sights, a sailing pig may be fine...and I have no problem with that.
But if the thrill of sailing itself is what you crave, the word
"practical" doesn't work. Speed is all about fads and what's current.
The new C&Cs are distinctive as are the 1st series as are any
performance boat. The 35s5 is OLD compared to them, but still holds her
own.
So...if you love sailing (something people like Scotty, Jeff, and John
C. would know nothing about), you buy a boat that sails well and
fast...a boat with a sensitive helm that will challenge and grow with
you.
And if you want to just bounce around out there, hoping for occasional
conditions that will get your tub moving like a sailboat...a Catalina
28, Siedlemann 30, Hunter, Beneteau Oceanus, O'Day, PDQ 36, or Coronado
will do just fine.
Some of us want a bit more....and enjoy listening to an old Abba song
from time to time. Fun aint a crime, but practicality sure shouldn't
mix with passion when it can be avoided.


RB
35s5...a fun boat with Abba on the Ipod
NY

Still rationalizing....................

The "Practical" sailor?
 

I think the disagreement comes down to why we sail and we all have
different reasons. For me, there is some thrill to sailing but not
that much. Mostly I like cruising and being "out there". Navigation
is like magic for me, the thrill of using basic trigonometry to find
position is my thrill and every time I plot my position it makes an odd
connection with something . I do not expect anyone else to understand
or appreciate this but thats ok. I'd be shocked if my boat impressed
anybody by her looks as I care little for looks. She is old, her
topsides are chalky and her black anodized mast has many dings, but her
rigging is all new and she sails very well.
My impression is that while I sail for antisocial reasons, Cap'n Rob
sails for social reasons. His boat seems ideal for why he sails but
his mistake is that he thinks others sail for his reasons.
This difference in perspective was made clear to me yesterday. Six
months ago I joined the local "Yat" club (and have felt out of place
since). I happen to have a slip right in front of the clubhouse and a
lot of people have asked about my homebuilt nesting dinghy that rests
on my foredeck. I always thouhgt they were admiring it so I would go
into of how well she works etc. Yesterday, I overheard someone saying
how tacky it looks there covering my deck, especially right in front of
the clubhouse. All along, these people were not admiring my great
functional dinghy, they were wondering when I would remove it. As I
have made a NEw Years resolution to try to get along better with
others, I'll offer to move to a more distant slip.
So, Rob, ya got a nice boat .....for you, but wouldnt be my choice. So
tell me, are the toe rails riveted? They always looked to me like a
sudden gust would rip em right off.

"Ragtime" with Neil Youngs "Thrashers" on the MP3

The "Practical" sailor?
 

For me, there is some thrill to sailing but not
that much.


Well there you have it.
And the toe railes are backed with SS plates as in the 32s5 and 38s5.
The discontinous rod rigging is fed through the deck and anhcored with
massive SS fittings set into glass. Chainplate failure on these boats
is virtually impossible. Her steering system is Whitlock geared R&P,
not a sloppy cable based setup, her fit and finish below was judged as
very fine by two surveys and most aspects of her design work better
than any other cruising boat I've sailed, including my nice C&C 32 and
the 37 I sailed...both very good boats. As I said these frist series
boats are not typical of Beneteau's construction used currently and
were priced very high when sold here. The interiors were shipped from
France, the hulls made in the USA. The boat won design awards and was
even featured in MOMA magazine. It's also a fast and winning race boat
for those who don't want to cruise. If you know an experienced
surveyor, ask him about the 35s5 as I did. The boat has some negatives,
totally missed by the folks here of course, but is far better built
than the current crop of Beneteau's. FYI, I used to "bash" Beneteau and
still think their current boats (though better sailing designs than
Catalina) are a bit cheap, especially below. A new 36.7 is a great
performance boat, but it's interior is pretty awful for fit and finish.

Here's the 36.7 nav station for example...poor seating room and a
rather small table.
http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/4/2/0/1/1420148_6.jpg

Here's my 35s5 Nav station. Good room and a large table that slides
back when not in use. There's also about 50% more storage. It's
superior design and looks more nautical...for those of us who like to
have "fun."
http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/images/int01.jpg

And those curved doors close with near air-tight perfection...unlike
most of the Tartan, C&C, J-Boat and even a Bristol 35.5 we looked at.
In some cases quality in boats appears to be based more on reputation
than reality. Most of the Cape Dory's we looked at (we were toying with
the idea of a heavy slow boat for an insane few weeks) were in great
shape. The Cape Dory lives up to it's rep, even better than Island
Packet.

RB
35s5
NY

The "Practical" sailor?
 

I hope you enjoy her (I mean the boat).

The "Practical" sailor?
 

The "Practical" sailor?
 

I tend to agree with Rob's opinions in several respects. - Sailing
isn't a "practical" endeavor, after all, and a "practical" boat sort of
misses the point. Although I appreciate the capabilities of heavier
boats built for safety and survivability, I personally enjoy a lighter,
more responsive boat. - To me, they're simply more fun to sail, which is
why I go sailing in the first place. (Obviously, "fun to sail" means
different things to different folks.) One analogy of "practical" vs
"fun" is like the difference between driving a Porshe 911 or a Ferrari
(light, lightly built, responsive cars in which the driver feels the
road and has greater control over the car's response, etc., as compared
to something like a Lincoln Town Car, in which the driver and passengers
are comfortable despite varying road conditions, etc., but which doesn't
provide the driving experience of a sports car. Of course, it's
obviously a matter of personal preference, and the Lincoln would be more
practical for extended trips, etc. In the same vein, I can understand
why some sailors prefer heavily built sailboats from builders with
established reputations, adapted for long blue-water crossings, and
also, why others prefer the responsiveness of lighter, more responsive
boats (such as the Mac 26M). But selecting a boat because it's "better
built" or more "practical," or because it will get you more respect from
your fellow sailors, etc. when you actually aren't going to take it on
extended crossings that would utilize its capabilities, etc., doesn't
make sense. As Rob points out, the bottom line is: is it fun to sail?

Jim



Capt. Rob wrote:

For me, there is some thrill to sailing but not
that much.


Well there you have it.
And the toe railes are backed with SS plates as in the 32s5 and 38s5.
The discontinous rod rigging is fed through the deck and anhcored with
massive SS fittings set into glass. Chainplate failure on these boats
is virtually impossible. Her steering system is Whitlock geared R&P,
not a sloppy cable based setup, her fit and finish below was judged as
very fine by two surveys and most aspects of her design work better
than any other cruising boat I've sailed, including my nice C&C 32 and
the 37 I sailed...both very good boats. As I said these frist series
boats are not typical of Beneteau's construction used currently and
were priced very high when sold here. The interiors were shipped from
France, the hulls made in the USA. The boat won design awards and was
even featured in MOMA magazine. It's also a fast and winning race boat
for those who don't want to cruise. If you know an experienced
surveyor, ask him about the 35s5 as I did. The boat has some negatives,
totally missed by the folks here of course, but is far better built
than the current crop of Beneteau's. FYI, I used to "bash" Beneteau and
still think their current boats (though better sailing designs than
Catalina) are a bit cheap, especially below. A new 36.7 is a great
performance boat, but it's interior is pretty awful for fit and finish.

Here's the 36.7 nav station for example...poor seating room and a
rather small table.
http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/4/2/0/1/1420148_6.jpg

Here's my 35s5 Nav station. Good room and a large table that slides
back when not in use. There's also about 50% more storage. It's
superior design and looks more nautical...for those of us who like to
have "fun."
http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/images/int01.jpg

And those curved doors close with near air-tight perfection...unlike
most of the Tartan, C&C, J-Boat and even a Bristol 35.5 we looked at.
In some cases quality in boats appears to be based more on reputation
than reality. Most of the Cape Dory's we looked at (we were toying with
the idea of a heavy slow boat for an insane few weeks) were in great
shape. The Cape Dory lives up to it's rep, even better than Island
Packet.

RB
35s5
NY

The "Practical" sailor?
 

I agree, fun is good.
Of course, there is some thrill in sailing a big boat although I find
more thrill in sailing a smaller boat. For me the thrill in the big
boat is the cruising aspect and not its sailing ability (although I do
appreciate how well she sails). I hope Rob enjoys his boat but he
mistakes his motivations for those of everybody else.

The "Practical" sailor?
 

wrote:

I agree, fun is good.
Of course, there is some thrill in sailing a big boat although I find
more thrill in sailing a smaller boat. For me the thrill in the big
boat is the cruising aspect and not its sailing ability (although I do
appreciate how well she sails). I hope Rob enjoys his boat but he
mistakes his motivations for those of everybody else.



I agree that there can be a thrill in sailing a larger boat. - We spent
a week crusing off Galveston in a chartered 40-foot Valiant, and I was
very impressed with its handling and response.

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

I would definitely catagorize the MacrapM as the polar opposite of a
well-found sailboat!

I think it's perfect for you!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
I tend to agree with Rob's opinions in several respects. - Sailing isn't a
"practical" endeavor, after all, and a "practical" boat sort of misses the
point. Although I appreciate the capabilities of heavier boats built for
safety and survivability, I personally enjoy a lighter, more responsive
boat. - To me, they're simply more fun to sail, which is why I go sailing
in the first place. (Obviously, "fun to sail" means different things to
different folks.) One analogy of "practical" vs "fun" is like the
difference between driving a Porshe 911 or a Ferrari (light, lightly built,
responsive cars in which the driver feels the road and has greater control
over the car's response, etc., as compared to something like a Lincoln Town
Car, in which the driver and passengers are comfortable despite varying
road conditions, etc., but which doesn't provide the driving experience of
a sports car. Of course, it's obviously a matter of personal preference,
and the Lincoln would be more practical for extended trips, etc. In the
same vein, I can understand why some sailors prefer heavily built sailboats
from builders with established reputations, adapted for long blue-water
crossings, and also, why others prefer the responsiveness of lighter, more
responsive boats (such as the Mac 26M). But selecting a boat because it's
"better built" or more "practical," or because it will get you more respect
from your fellow sailors, etc. when you actually aren't going to take it on
extended crossings that would utilize its capabilities, etc., doesn't make
sense. As Rob points out, the bottom line is: is it fun to sail?
Jim



Capt. Rob wrote:

For me, there is some thrill to sailing but not
that much.


Well there you have it.
And the toe railes are backed with SS plates as in the 32s5 and 38s5.
The discontinous rod rigging is fed through the deck and anhcored with
massive SS fittings set into glass. Chainplate failure on these boats
is virtually impossible. Her steering system is Whitlock geared R&P,
not a sloppy cable based setup, her fit and finish below was judged as
very fine by two surveys and most aspects of her design work better
than any other cruising boat I've sailed, including my nice C&C 32 and
the 37 I sailed...both very good boats. As I said these frist series
boats are not typical of Beneteau's construction used currently and
were priced very high when sold here. The interiors were shipped from
France, the hulls made in the USA. The boat won design awards and was
even featured in MOMA magazine. It's also a fast and winning race boat
for those who don't want to cruise. If you know an experienced
surveyor, ask him about the 35s5 as I did. The boat has some negatives,
totally missed by the folks here of course, but is far better built
than the current crop of Beneteau's. FYI, I used to "bash" Beneteau and
still think their current boats (though better sailing designs than
Catalina) are a bit cheap, especially below. A new 36.7 is a great
performance boat, but it's interior is pretty awful for fit and finish.

Here's the 36.7 nav station for example...poor seating room and a
rather small table.
http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/4/2/0/1/1420148_6.jpg

Here's my 35s5 Nav station. Good room and a large table that slides
back when not in use. There's also about 50% more storage. It's
superior design and looks more nautical...for those of us who like to
have "fun."
http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/images/int01.jpg

And those curved doors close with near air-tight perfection...unlike
most of the Tartan, C&C, J-Boat and even a Bristol 35.5 we looked at.
In some cases quality in boats appears to be based more on reputation
than reality. Most of the Cape Dory's we looked at (we were toying with
the idea of a heavy slow boat for an insane few weeks) were in great
shape. The Cape Dory lives up to it's rep, even better than Island
Packet.

RB
35s5
NY

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Are you telling me that you didn't take your Mac?? I'm disappointed!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


wrote:

I agree, fun is good.
Of course, there is some thrill in sailing a big boat although I find
more thrill in sailing a smaller boat. For me the thrill in the big
boat is the cruising aspect and not its sailing ability (although I do
appreciate how well she sails). I hope Rob enjoys his boat but he
mistakes his motivations for those of everybody else.


I agree that there can be a thrill in sailing a larger boat. - We spent a
week crusing off Galveston in a chartered 40-foot Valiant, and I was very
impressed with its handling and response.

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

I think it's perfect for you!


But if it serves his needs and he's happy with her, then she's a fine
boat.


RB
35s5
NY

The "Practical" sailor?
 

That's why I said it was perfect for him!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
I think it's perfect for you!


But if it serves his needs and he's happy with her, then she's a fine
boat.


RB
35s5
NY

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Stalking again? Pretty pathetic aren't you.... sad really.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message
...
On 4 Jan 2006 10:58:09 -0800, "Capt. Rob" wrote:

I think it's perfect for you!


But if it serves his needs and he's happy with her, then she's a fine
boat.


RB
35s5
NY

You should know by know that JG is a miserable person, and thinks
everyone else should be miserable too. When someone is happy, it makes
him nuts.


Commodore Joe Redcloud©

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Well, you're following me from thread to thread and newsgroup to newsgroup.
What do you call it?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:13:13 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

Stalking again? Pretty pathetic aren't you.... sad really.

It might help you to look up the word "stalking" before using it
again, nitwit.


Commodore Joe Redcloud©

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Capt. JG wrote:

That's why I said it was perfect for him!


You seem to be missing the point, as usual JG. Which is that the most
logical reason to go sailing is that you have fun doing it. - And if
you aren't going to take your boat on an extended crossing, then buying
a boat that COULD sail the Atlantic so that you can impress your
neighbors and brag on the newsgroup about how seaworthy your boat is
really isn't all that rational. - It's more important that you sail a
boat that's fun to sail. - Like my Mac M.

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

I suppose you also think that it's ok to post people's personal information,
including their street addresses and phone numbers. Well, ok. I guess I'm
delusional. Seriously though, you really need some help. Consider it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:41:51 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

Well, you're following me from thread to thread and newsgroup to
newsgroup.
What do you call it?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


I call you delusional if that's what you perceive is happening.

Here's help for you:

http://www.seroquel.com


Commodore Joe Redcloud©

The "Practical" sailor?
 

I'm so glad you like your boat!! It's perfect for you! Am I still missing
the point?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Capt. JG wrote:

That's why I said it was perfect for him!


You seem to be missing the point, as usual JG. Which is that the most
logical reason to go sailing is that you have fun doing it. - And if you
aren't going to take your boat on an extended crossing, then buying a boat
that COULD sail the Atlantic so that you can impress your neighbors and
brag on the newsgroup about how seaworthy your boat is really isn't all
that rational. - It's more important that you sail a boat that's fun to
sail. - Like my Mac M.

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

I'll defend the Mac as it provides a lot of value and gets some people
sailing who otherwise wouldnt.

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Never as far as I know. What's your point?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:51:03 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

I suppose you also think that it's ok to post people's personal
information,
including their street addresses and phone numbers. Well, ok. I guess I'm
delusional. Seriously though, you really need some help. Consider it.

When did I post your personal information, jonny? And yes, you ARE
delusional.


Commodore Joe Redcloud

The "Practical" sailor?
 

No need to defend it to me. I agree with you. That said, it's a lousy boat
at rip-off prices.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
ups.com...
I'll defend the Mac as it provides a lot of value and gets some people
sailing who otherwise wouldnt.

The "Practical" sailor?
 

yes, you Mac owners stick together.



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Mac this and Mac that
RB

35s5 the limo version of the Mac26X
NY

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Crying? You can see tears? Are you omniscient like God?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:56:52 -0800, "Capt. JG" wrote:

Never as far as I know. What's your point?

Well then, why do you keep crying as if I did?


Commodore Joe Redcloud

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Capt. JG wrote:

No need to defend it to me. I agree with you. That said, it's a lousy boat
at rip-off prices.



It's a great boat and lots of fun to sail. Regarding the price, it's
probably the greatest value going.

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Come on Jim. I know you can be a serious guy, but this is just too funny!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Capt. JG wrote:

No need to defend it to me. I agree with you. That said, it's a lousy boat
at rip-off prices.


It's a great boat and lots of fun to sail. Regarding the price, it's
probably the greatest value going.

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

You're quite pathetic... sorry. You need help!!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 19:32:43 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

Crying? You can see tears? Are you omniscient like God?

God? You ARE delusional, crybaby!


Commodore Joe Redcloud

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Capt. JG wrote:

Are you telling me that you didn't take your Mac?? I'm disappointed!



Not that time, JG. Unlike you, I can appreciate and enjoy the
attributes and capabilities of a number of different types of vessels,
including not only the Mac but also heavier built, LWL boats such as the
Valiant. - And if I was going to sail accross the Gulf, I think the
Valiant 40 would be a great choice.

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

JG, have you ever considered coming up with a few facts and statistics
to back up all that bull**** you keep spreading around?

Jim




Capt. JG wrote:

Come on Jim. I know you can be a serious guy, but this is just too funny!

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Unlike me? If you're talking about appreciating the "attributes and
capabilities" of your MacrapM, I certainly do!

Valiant wouldn't be my first choice, but at least it would make it vs. your
boat, which would likely sink.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Capt. JG wrote:

Are you telling me that you didn't take your Mac?? I'm disappointed!


Not that time, JG. Unlike you, I can appreciate and enjoy the attributes
and capabilities of a number of different types of vessels, including not
only the Mac but also heavier built, LWL boats such as the Valiant. - And
if I was going to sail accross the Gulf, I think the Valiant 40 would be a
great choice.

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

But Jim, you're supplying all the facts we need!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
JG, have you ever considered coming up with a few facts and statistics to
back up all that bull**** you keep spreading around?

Jim




Capt. JG wrote:

Come on Jim. I know you can be a serious guy, but this is just too funny!

The "Practical" sailor?
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
But Jim, you're supplying all the facts we need!

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Bwahhahahahahhahahhahahhahahahhahahha

John Cairns

"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
JG, have you ever considered coming up with a few facts and statistics to
back up all that bull**** you keep spreading around?

Jim




Capt. JG wrote:

Come on Jim. I know you can be a serious guy, but this is just too funny!

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Capt. JG wrote:

Unlike me? If you're talking about appreciating the "attributes and
capabilities" of your MacrapM, I certainly do!

Valiant wouldn't be my first choice, but at least it would make it vs. your
boat, which would likely sink.



Wrong again JG. - When will you ever learn? - The Mac 26M has built-in
flotation that keeps it afloat even if the hull is compromised. It won't
sail very well in that mode, but it won't sink. Perhaps you were
thinking of your own boat.

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Capt. JG wrote:

But Jim, you're supplying all the facts we need!



JG, if the Macs are that bad, and everyone knows it, why are you wasting
all this time and cyberspace? But as to my supplying all the facts you
need, which facts in particular are you referring to? Actually, you
have been having a great old time bashing the Mac26M, but so far, you
haven't come up with anything at all to back up all your assertions. Are
they falling apart by the hundreds all over the world JG? Are the
owners and crew perishing if they happen to sail in winds over 15 knots?
If so, why not give us some news reports or independent accounts about
all this carnage.

You also haven't told us where you are getting all your purported
information about the Mac 26M, or whether or not you ever even sailed
one of the 26M's. - Have you? No? Then, of course, you really don't
have much first-hand information about them, do you JG?

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Does your MacrapM ?ever? sail very well? I couldn't be thinking of my own
boat, since I don't own a boat!

I guess I just need to learn, but you know everything don't you?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Capt. JG wrote:

Unlike me? If you're talking about appreciating the "attributes and
capabilities" of your MacrapM, I certainly do!

Valiant wouldn't be my first choice, but at least it would make it vs.
your boat, which would likely sink.


Wrong again JG. - When will you ever learn? - The Mac 26M has built-in
flotation that keeps it afloat even if the hull is compromised. It won't
sail very well in that mode, but it won't sink. Perhaps you were thinking
of your own boat.

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Come on Jim... every time you type something, you're supplying us with
facts. That's simple logic and even the owner of a wonderful MacrapM would
know that. Are you sure you own one?

Fortunately, I'm allowed to waste my time any way I want. Isn't America
great!

You're right, though. The only way to back up my assertions that they are
pieces of garbage, designed for novice sailors who don't know better, would
be to own one myself. Well, I guess you've got me there!

Please show me where I've ever said that they fall apart by the hundreds or
their crew perish in winds over 15 kts. The fact that they're cheaply built
and sail poorly (sorry, just what I've observed) says absolutely nothing
about them being appropriate for some people.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Capt. JG wrote:

But Jim, you're supplying all the facts we need!


JG, if the Macs are that bad, and everyone knows it, why are you wasting
all this time and cyberspace? But as to my supplying all the facts you
need, which facts in particular are you referring to? Actually, you have
been having a great old time bashing the Mac26M, but so far, you haven't
come up with anything at all to back up all your assertions. Are they
falling apart by the hundreds all over the world JG? Are the owners and
crew perishing if they happen to sail in winds over 15 knots? If so, why
not give us some news reports or independent accounts about all this
carnage.
You also haven't told us where you are getting all your purported
information about the Mac 26M, or whether or not you ever even sailed one
of the 26M's. - Have you? No? Then, of course, you really don't have
much first-hand information about them, do you JG?
Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Capt. JG wrote:

Are you telling me that you didn't take your Mac?? I'm
disappointed!



Not that time, JG. Unlike you, I can appreciate and enjoy the
attributes and capabilities of a number of different types of
vessels,
including not only the Mac but also heavier built, LWL boats
such as the
Valiant. -

Doesn't your Mac have a LWL?

SV

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Capt. JG wrote:

Come on Jim... every time you type something, you're supplying us with
facts. That's simple logic and even the owner of a wonderful MacrapM would
know that. Are you sure you own one?

Fortunately, I'm allowed to waste my time any way I want. Isn't America
great!

You're right, though. The only way to back up my assertions that they are
pieces of garbage, designed for novice sailors who don't know better, would
be to own one myself. Well, I guess you've got me there!

Please show me where I've ever said that they fall apart by the hundreds or
their crew perish in winds over 15 kts. The fact that they're cheaply built
and sail poorly (sorry, just what I've observed) says absolutely nothing
about them being appropriate for some people.




JG, please show me where I said that you said the Macs fall apart by the
hundreds,or that their crew perish in winds over 15 kts. - What I did
say, of course, was:

"JG, IF the Macs are that bad, and everyone knows it, why are you
wasting all this time and cyberspace? ...... Actually, you have been
having a great old time bashing the Mac26M, but so far, you haven't come
up with anything at all to back up all your assertions. ARE THEY falling
apart by the hundreds all over the world JG? ARE THEIR OWNERS AND CREWS
PERISHING if they happen to sail in winds over 15 knots? If so, why not
give us some news reports or independent accounts about all this carnage. "


So if, as you keep saying, the Macs are "junk" or, "a pretend sailboat,"
or "a lousy boat at rip-off prices," etc., then why aren't they falling
apart by the hundreds, and why aren't their crews perishing in anything
over moderate winds? - As I have said, I don't consider them suitable
for extended blue water crossings or the like. But since there are
thousands of them on the water (Particularly since they are one of the
most popular sailboat ever made and are sailed in all kinds of
conditions), and if your assertions were correct, surely there would be
hundreds of them breaking apart in even moderate weather conditions. To
the contrary, if you check any of the Mac discussion groups you will
note many owners who have been sailing their Macs for years in a variety
of conditions, have sailed other boats, and,when they finally trade in
their boats, often choose another Mac.


From what you have said, you haven't even sailed any of the recent
models of the Mac26 (e.g., the Mac 26M). Again, you really don't have
any first-hand experience with the 26M's, and the nearest experience you
have with ANY Macs were several anecdotes about Macs that seemed to be
having some type of difficulty in SFbay. (And who on this ng hasn't
had "difficulties" in some sailing conditions?)

In other words, it's obvious that you really don't have anything to back
up your statements about the Macs, JG. - Stupid remarks like: "They
junk and look like it" don't contribute anything useful to the ng; they
don't help anyone; and they generally short-circuit what might become a
balanced, potentially helpful discussion.

Or are you just another troll JG, as Joe noted?

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Capt. JG wrote:

Come on Jim... every time you type something, you're supplying us with
facts. That's simple logic and even the owner of a wonderful MacrapM would
know that. Are you sure you own one?

Fortunately, I'm allowed to waste my time any way I want. Isn't America
great!

You're right, though. The only way to back up my assertions that they are
pieces of garbage, designed for novice sailors who don't know better, would
be to own one myself. Well, I guess you've got me there!

Please show me where I've ever said that they fall apart by the hundreds or
their crew perish in winds over 15 kts. The fact that they're cheaply built
and sail poorly (sorry, just what I've observed) says absolutely nothing
about them being appropriate for some people.
Capt. JG wrote:




JG, please show me where I said that you said the Macs fall apart by
the hundreds,or that their crew perish in winds over 15 kts. - What I
did say, of course, was:

"JG, IF the Macs are that bad, and everyone knows it, why are you
wasting all this time and cyberspace? ...... Actually, you have been
having a great old time bashing the Mac26M, but so far, you haven't
come up with anything at all to back up all your assertions. ARE THEY
falling apart by the hundreds all over the world JG? ARE THEIR OWNERS
AND CREWS PERISHING if they happen to sail in winds over 15 knots? If
so, why not give us some news reports or independent accounts about
all this carnage. "


So if, as you keep saying, the Macs are "junk" or, "a pretend
sailboat," or "a lousy boat at rip-off prices," etc., then why aren't
they falling apart by the hundreds, and why aren't their crews
perishing in anything over moderate winds? - As I have said, I don't
consider them suitable for extended blue water crossings or the like.
But since there are thousands of them on the water (Particularly
since they are one of the most popular sailboat ever made and are
sailed in all kinds of conditions), and if your assertions were
correct, surely there would be hundreds of them breaking apart in even
moderate weather conditions. To the contrary, if you check any of the
Mac discussion groups you will note many owners who have been sailing
their Macs for years in a variety of conditions, have sailed other
boats, and,when they finally trade in their boats, often choose
another Mac.


From what you have said, you haven't even sailed any of the recent
models of the Mac26 (e.g., the Mac 26M). Again, you really don't have
any first-hand experience with the 26M's, and the nearest experience
you have with ANY Macs were several anecdotes about Macs that seemed
to be having some type of difficulty in SFbay. (And who on this ng
hasn't had "difficulties" in some sailing conditions?)

In other words, it's obvious that you really don't have anything to
back up your statements about the Macs, JG. - Stupid remarks like:
"They junk and look like it" don't contribute anything useful to the
ng; they don't help anyone; and they generally short-circuit what
might become a balanced, potentially helpful discussion.

Or are you just another troll JG, as Joe noted?

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Capt. JG wrote:

Does your MacrapM ?ever? sail very well? I couldn't be thinking of my own
boat, since I don't own a boat!

I guess I just need to learn, but you know everything don't you?



Nope, I don't know everything. But I do have experience on the Mac 26M,
whereas you obviously don't.

Jim

The "Practical" sailor?
 

Come on now Jim, don't be so modest. This is usenet after all.

I concede that you have a vast amount of experience on your boat.. certain,
more than I have!! Perhaps someday, you'll gain enough experience to move up
to a decent boat.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Capt. JG wrote:

Does your MacrapM ?ever? sail very well? I couldn't be thinking of my own
boat, since I don't own a boat!

I guess I just need to learn, but you know everything don't you?


Nope, I don't know everything. But I do have experience on the Mac 26M,
whereas you obviously don't.
Jim