On alt.sailing.asa we have some Sllllooooowwww boats! These boats are
not bad boats, but they are generally pretty darn slow and need help
from their engines in certain conditions.

Joe's Steel Motorsailer:
Even though she can certainly move with a fresh breeze and carry her
heavy LWL with some speed, she's not a performer. In light air you'd
best start the motor, which Joe does often.

Jeff's PDQ 36:
Strange how the fastest boat is also the slowest. In light air the PDQ
suffers and tacking requires some hand work with the jib or even the
engines. Jeff has admitted (and well he should) that this is a weak
point on the boat and he "generally motors when speeds drop below 5
knots."

Mooron's Nordica 30:
In many ways she's the best performing slow boat here, having
reasonable sail area for her displacement. Still, she's got some heft
and more wetted surface to deal with along with a less then modern
shape.

Maxi's Sea Sprite 34:
A devastingly old underbody combined with some serious weight and a
small rig make for a boat that needs real air to be at her best. If
Maxi is carrying older sails he's really in trouble.

John's Catalina 28:
It's hard to imagine a more boring boat, especially as a newer entry
from Catalina. It's also hard to image a boat that's slower for her
age. A Hunter 28 rates as fast. People buy Catalina 28's and 30's for
space and not for the sailing experience.


RB
First 35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
On alt.sailing.asa we have some Sllllooooowwww boats! These boats are
not bad boats, but they are generally pretty darn slow and need help
from their engines in certain conditions.

Certain conditions? You mean like, trying to do 50 to 100 miles in a
day and getting secured before dark? Or making through a canal or
hole before the tide turns? Since you've never actually done these
things, you have no idea what you're talking about.

And what does it mean that I fire up an engine if we're doing under 5
knots? That says nothing about my light air performance, it really
speaks more of the performance in conditions I frequently encounter.
Since I usually do 6 to 8 knots, and sometimes average higher than
that, my planning is based on doing 7 knots. If I'm only doing 3.5,
that turns a 6 hour trip into 12 hours; not necessarily fun.

Further, it says nothing about the speed of the boat. You could have
the world's best light air sailer and still decide to power when the
speed goes below 5 knots. When I had a slower boat, my cutoff was
lower. And, of course, when I daysailed, the engine was hardly ever used.

I appreciate that you think 5 knots is an odd "cutoff" point. Since
you've chosen to live where there's no wind, you'll be lucky to see
even that speed most of the time. As a daysailor, all you ever do is
go out for an hour, then head for an hour; the actual boat speed is
irrelevant. Your boat will tip and bounce and give the illusion of
speed while you drift around and impress your friends.

And remember, your boat was singled out for having an extra 24 point
handicap in light air. So while you might think its a great light air
boat, the computer doesn't.

And for the record, if I were given your boat, the first thing I would
do is put it on the market. All of the other boats you've listed, I
would consider keeping.




Joe's Steel Motorsailer:
Even though she can certainly move with a fresh breeze and carry her
heavy LWL with some speed, she's not a performer. In light air you'd
best start the motor, which Joe does often.

Jeff's PDQ 36:
Strange how the fastest boat is also the slowest. In light air the PDQ
suffers and tacking requires some hand work with the jib or even the
engines. Jeff has admitted (and well he should) that this is a weak
point on the boat and he "generally motors when speeds drop below 5
knots."

Mooron's Nordica 30:
In many ways she's the best performing slow boat here, having
reasonable sail area for her displacement. Still, she's got some heft
and more wetted surface to deal with along with a less then modern
shape.

Maxi's Sea Sprite 34:
A devastingly old underbody combined with some serious weight and a
small rig make for a boat that needs real air to be at her best. If
Maxi is carrying older sails he's really in trouble.

John's Catalina 28:
It's hard to imagine a more boring boat, especially as a newer entry
from Catalina. It's also hard to image a boat that's slower for her
age. A Hunter 28 rates as fast. People buy Catalina 28's and 30's for
space and not for the sailing experience.


RB
First 35s5
NY

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Capt. Rob wrote:
On alt.sailing.asa we have some Sllllooooowwww boats! These boats are
not bad boats, but they are generally pretty darn slow and need help
from their engines in certain conditions.

Certain conditions? You mean like, trying to do 50 to 100 miles in a
day and getting secured before dark? Or making through a canal or
hole before the tide turns? Since you've never actually done these
things, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Do you think urgency or purpose ever crosses RB's plate?



And what does it mean that I fire up an engine if we're doing under 5
knots? That says nothing about my light air performance, it really
speaks more of the performance in conditions I frequently encounter.
Since I usually do 6 to 8 knots, and sometimes average higher than
that, my planning is based on doing 7 knots. If I'm only doing 3.5,
that turns a 6 hour trip into 12 hours; not necessarily fun.


You mean to say that starting up the engine is a subjective based act of
volition?

Don't engines start by themselves automatically as a factor of PHRF? Isn't
it like some law of physics?



Further, it says nothing about the speed of the boat. You could have
the world's best light air sailer and still decide to power when the
speed goes below 5 knots. When I had a slower boat, my cutoff was
lower. And, of course, when I daysailed, the engine was hardly ever used.

I appreciate that you think 5 knots is an odd "cutoff" point. Since
you've chosen to live where there's no wind, you'll be lucky to see
even that speed most of the time. As a daysailor, all you ever do is
go out for an hour, then head for an hour; the actual boat speed is
irrelevant. Your boat will tip and bounce and give the illusion of
speed while you drift around and impress your friends.

This is getting brutal...



And remember, your boat was singled out for having an extra 24 point
handicap in light air. So while you might think its a great light air
boat, the computer doesn't.


Why let facts and objective measurement get in the way of lacking experience
and delusional opinion?


And for the record, if I were given your boat, the first thing I would
do is put it on the market. All of the other boats you've listed, I
would consider keeping.


If the foo ****s, should RB wear it?

Certain conditions? You mean like, trying to do 50 to 100 miles in a
day and getting secured before dark?


Afraid to sail at night as well, aye? Boo!

Or making through a canal or
hole before the tide turns? Since you've never actually done these
things, you have no idea what you're talking about.


Gee, I think my many dealings with the east river and hells gate says
otherwise. Boo!


And what does it mean that I fire up an engine if we're doing under 5

knots? That says nothing about my light air performance.

You said that you GENERALLY start the engines when doing less than 5
knots. I know EXACTLY what kind of sailor your are, Jeff. I could care
less how far you sail. Just takes time. You're a notch above a
powerboater and sail that way.


And remember, your boat was singled out for having an extra 24 point

handicap in light air. So while you might think its a great light air
boat, the computer doesn't.

Does the computer like my big wheel???

And for the record, if I were given your boat, the first thing I
would
do is put it on the market.

That's because you're not a sailor. If I was given ANY boat the first
thing I'd do is sail it.
But you know best!

Good gawd! Crantz...stay on Jeff's side. He needs help But are you
helping?


RB
First 35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Good gawd! Crantz...stay on Jeff's side. He needs help But are you
helping?



Gasoline poured onto a fire warms all bystanders.

Amen!

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Good gawd! Crantz...stay on Jeff's side. He needs help But are you
helping?



Gasoline poured onto a fire warms all bystanders.

Amen!

Tossin' a box of shotshells in loaded with bird shot.... that's another
thing altogether.

CM

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
Maxi's Sea Sprite 34:
A devastingly old underbody combined with some serious weight and a
small rig make for a boat that needs real air to be at her best. If
Maxi is carrying older sails he's really in trouble.

Newer high-tech cruising laminates, actually. And she does half the wind
speed over 5kts of wind. Not too bad for a "devastatingly old underbody
combined with some serious weight."

Max

Newer high-tech cruising laminates, actually. And she does half the
wind
speed over 5kts of wind. Not too bad for a "devastatingly old
underbody
combined with some serious weight."

Sounds faster than Jeff's boat! And better looking of course.

RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
Certain conditions? You mean like, trying to do 50 to 100 miles in a
day and getting secured before dark?


Afraid to sail at night as well, aye? Boo!

Let's see how many night sails you do with Thomas on board. I've done
a dozen or so night passages of over 100 miles (not counting OPB's),
most of them before GPS and Radar. We don't do them much with a child
on board.

And actually, the issue is often arriving in time to get a mooring
inside the harbor.

And since you've been more than a few miles from shore, you have no
right to comment on any aspect of cruising.



Or making through a canal or
hole before the tide turns? Since you've never actually done these
things, you have no idea what you're talking about.


Gee, I think my many dealings with the east river and hells gate says
otherwise. Boo!

Your "many dealings"? BWAHAHAHAHA! Maybe, just maybe, you can get
someone to believe you took your own boat through Hell Gate once. If
you had, you might know the correct spelling.

And besides, Hell Gate is not particularly challenging compared to
Wood's Hole. And you would wet your pants if you saw what happens at
the ends of the CC Canal if there's an opposing wind.

Is there something about the East River? I never found that any
problem at all, other than dodging the swimmers.




And what does it mean that I fire up an engine if we're doing under 5

knots? That says nothing about my light air performance.

You said that you GENERALLY start the engines when doing less than 5
knots. I know EXACTLY what kind of sailor your are, Jeff.

And we all know what kind you are.

I could care
less

And I could care less what you care.

how far you sail. Just takes time.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Sure thing, booby. Going out for a month or two away from home,
cruising Down East where there aren't too many marinas, navigating in
thick fog, being prepared to anchor out in any weather, handle any
repairs ... why should I bother? You claimed that "sailing without
A/C would be horrific" and you don't even have a genset!


You're a notch above a
powerboater and sail that way.

And you're about ten notches below. In 10 years of sailing you're
still talking about maybe doing a few overnights. Why do you even
bother owning a boat?




And remember, your boat was singled out for having an extra 24 point

handicap in light air. So while you might think its a great light air
boat, the computer doesn't.

Does the computer like my big wheel???

And for the record, if I were given your boat, the first thing I
would
do is put it on the market.

That's because you're not a sailor. If I was given ANY boat the first
thing I'd do is sail it.
But you know best!

I gave that some thought, but in this case I'd be afraid it would
depreciate too much. Aren't you the one who said: "Beneteau: Crap
floats, but you can't sleep on it." and "Beneteau is well packaged
junk."?


Good gawd! Crantz...stay on Jeff's side. He needs help But are you
helping?

I don't really need anyone's help. But haven't you noticed, they all
agree with me!