The Best Looking Boat
 

The Nordica will sail circles, figure eights and hexagons around the
Sea Sprite 34.


RB
35s5
NY

The Best Looking Boat
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
That would be a serious mistake if you chose to race against my boat
in,
say, a fin keel Catalina 34 with a PHRF of 144. My boat tends to sail
with
C34s upwind and beats them easily off the wind or downwind.

A Sea Sprite 34 compared to a Catalina 34 is half a ton more with 5
feet less LWL.

I couldn't really expect you to know this, but boats of the generation of
mine have those overhangs for a reason: the waterline length increases
significantly when they heel. On paper the LWL looks incredibly short, but
it is well within the normal range of boats in her length range when heeled.
That's at least partly why her rating is so high--it's based upon the
resting LWL. Further, that short waterline is a huge advantage downwind,
when wetted surface area minimized is a plus. That probably has something
to do with her ability to easily sail around many larger boats with the wind
abaft. A Hunter 410 from our marina can't stay with her downwind. In fact
we lose sight of her astern within half an hour. Same story with a new
Catalina 350 from our marina.

There really is no way you'll overcome the Catalina's
LWL and lighter weight in a variety of conditions IF she's well sailed
with a clean bottom.

On paper that would seem to be the case. In reality it's not true. My wife
and I have coined a term: the Catalina one-eighty, which is what they
regularly seem to do ostensibly to avoid embarrassement.

On the LIS, the TL Cat is rated at 150.

She never fails to attract compliments and photographers
like flies every time she's on the water.

You must live someplace very unusual. Your boat and boats like it are
as common as flies here.

You aren't wrong on this point. We don't have many older traditional boats
here, just lots of Beneteaus and Catalinas and Hunters. Ours in not
unique, but it is rare, and most people have an eye for aesthetic sheer
lines and graceful overhangs. She's also bristol with forest green Awlgrip
topsides. On the right coast, CCA-type boats are plentiful. In fact, ours
is only one of two Luders 34 designs on Lake Michigan. The majority of the
others is in and around Maine.

It's funny how people always say "my boat
draws compliments." Hey, my boat one boat of the year in 3 countries
and in Cruising World.

It may have, but it looks like just about every other plastic boat being
produced today. It's got some great qualities, Bubbles, and it's a boat
worth owning. I'm sure you'll love it. But it's not exactly distinctive.
Perhaps if you sailed in the Persian Gulf your boat would draw attention.
g

Yeah okay, big deal. If YOU like your boat,
that's all that matters. And I only rated people who've had the balls
and confidence to share pics of their boats here.

I sent several photos to a photo website that someone--can't recall
who--provided for ASA boats a few years ago. I'll be happy to provide newer
ones to a similar website. I'll also send you some via email, if you're man
enough to accept 'em.


The Nordic isn't the prettiest of the canoe stern boats, but it is
better
looking than, say, something with a horrendous, big-ass swim platform.


I have a friend who can't get past the looks of my boat or even a
Catalina 30, which is pretty inoffensive in my book. If you only have
an eye for the older stuff that's fine. But Mooron's boat is more
distinctive in shape and a sharper looking boat.

It's all in the eye of the beholder. Mooron's boat is attractive, so is
yours and mine. The point is not which is better looking, but *to whom* it
is attractive. I like mine. CM likes his. I'm betting you like yours.
Just don't become so arrogant as to believe that your aesthetic
sensibilities are those of everyone else.

If your old Sea Sprite
is in bristol restored shape, I'm sure we'd all like to see pics. How
my swim platform fits into this is a mystery to anyone but you.

I guess I should have put the proverbial smiley face behind that swim
platform statement. I was ribbing you about your adamant declaration that a
swim platform is a necessity. To be honest, it would be nice on most boats,
but ridiculous on ours. Our freeboard is so low it simply isn't necessary,
but our friend's new Moorings 445 would be difficult to board from a dink
without one. And yes, my SS34 is bristol and probably the best-equipped of
any of the roughly 50 of them built. It's also one of the rare
factory-finished boats. Quite a few of them were owner finished--some are
nice, but some have amateurish joinerwork below.

Give me a website and you'll have photos.

Max

The Best Looking Boat
 

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:1%Cjf.182723$Io.55440@clgrps13...
Heh..... here is the sailcalc comparison between a Sea Sprite 34 & the
Nordica 30. I believe the Nordica 30 has a 180 PHRF. I think the telling
factor lies in the displacement to LWL which places the Sea Sprite in the
very heavy cruiser class at over 400.

All true, but don't forget who designed the SS34: Bill Luders. I don't
expect you to know much about him, but he was known as the quintessential
rule-beater during his naval architecture days. He designed Americas Cup
boats as well as racers of virtually every length and application. And his
boats won easily over boats that were purportedly "much faster yachts." He
often talked to the rating rule powers-that-be, informing them of loopholes
in their rules. They would say, "Go away, Bill--we like the rule as it is."
So he'd design a boat to exploit that loophole and beat all their cherished
rule-optimized yachts. This was through the CCA period, but also included
the early years of the IOR.

The SS34 has a high rating and rates like a floating concrete barge on paper
*because* of her short waterline. But her waterline increases dramatically
when heeled, and its shortness is a distinct advantage for minimizing wetted
surface area off the wind. That's why the boat sails well above her rating.
In fleets where SS34s are raced regularly against other boats, the PHRF is
almost always modified to around 145 in order to allow the other boats to
win. Seriously. But there are only 46 of them in existence, so they aren't
exactly overrepresented in racing fleets around the country. What I do know
is this: we can easily sail to weather, both in pointing ability and boat
speed, with a Catalina 34, and are quite a bit faster to weather than a
Pearson 33. We sail almost exactly knot for knot with a Tartan 34 with a
keel/CB and a competent skipper (much experience against that boat and
crew). We can't keep up with a Catalina 36 or most larger boats to weather.
Off the wind we can sail with boats that should be quite a bit faster, and
that's wing and wing. With main and our asymmetric spinnaker we leave them
behind. This boat sails consistently at half the wind speed in anything
over 5kts. up to about 14kts. Then it holds in around 6.5 to 7kts. unless
surfing. All those speeds are confirmed via GPS, by the way.

I'll tell you what I've told Bubbles: don't always presume that what you
see on paper has anything to do with reality. I'm sorry to say that your
boat probably can't stay with a SS34 on any point of sail. Don't take my
word for this--read all about the Luders 34 in Ferenc Mate's book, Best
Boats.

I like your boat, by the way. Looks like a great cruiser in the photos.

Max

The Best Looking Boat
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
The Nordica will sail circles, figure eights and hexagons around the
Sea Sprite 34.

Heh, heh. Okay.

Max

The Best Looking Boat
 

ive me a website and you'll have photos.


Max, send me a pic of your boat (to ) and I'll post it
so everyone can. See. I'll leave it up until you say to take it down.
Pick a good one.


RB
35s5
NY

The Best Looking Boat
 

We can't keep up with a Catalina 36 or most larger boats to weather.



Max, this doesn't make sense as the Catalina 36 and 34 have near
identical performance. Did I say near? The 34 is actually faster in
some situations while the 36 never is. I've sailed both WK versions and
one fin on a 34 that I'm currently trying to sell.

RB
35s5
NY

The Best Looking Boat
 

Joe wrote:
Are you telling me you think this:

http://www.nordicaboats.com/assets/i...k-smlo-opt.jpg

Is a better looking boat than this:

http://www.sailinglinks.com/images/RedCloud.jpg

No disrespect to Moorons boat..... but RedCloud is the better looking
boat all around.
Doug..Notice no hard chines?

Joe

Yup!

The Best Looking Boat
 

Capt.Mooron wrote:
Heh..... here is the sailcalc comparison between a Sea Sprite 34 & the
Nordica 30. I believe the Nordica 30 has a 180 PHRF. I think the telling
factor lies in the displacement to LWL which places the Sea Sprite in the
very heavy cruiser class at over 400.

Performance Comparison LOA Sea Sprite 34 34.08

Nordica 30 29.49

LWL Sea Sprite 34 24.26

Nordica 30 25

Beam Sea Sprite 34 10.4

Nordica 30 9.77

Displacement Sea Sprite 34 13208

Nordica 30 10220

Sail Area Sea Sprite 34 535

Nordica 30 502

Capsize Ratio Sea Sprite 34 1.76

Nordica 30 1.8

Hull Speed Sea Sprite 34 6.6

Nordica 30 6.7

Sail Area to Displacement Sea Sprite 34 15.32

Nordica 30 17.06

Displacement to LWL Sea Sprite 34 413

Nordica 30 292

LWL to Beam Sea Sprite 34 2.33

Nordica 30 2.56

Motion Comfort Sea Sprite 34 32.9

Nordica 30 28.57

Pounds/Inch Sea Sprite 34 902

Nordica 30 873


"Maxprop" wrote in message

I'll grant that CCA-type boats were relatively common in the 40s and 50s,
but not today. She never fails to attract compliments and photographers
like flies every time she's on the water. And at the dock. Her curving
sheerline and aesthetic overhangs never fail to draw praise and smiles.


That would be a serious mistake if you chose to race against my boat in,
say, a fin keel Catalina 34 with a PHRF of 144. My boat tends to sail
with C34s upwind and beats them easily off the wind or downwind. My boat
placed second in her class in the Chicago-Mac. Her rating of 190 is a
gift.



The Nordic isn't the prettiest of the canoe stern boats, but it is better
looking than, say, something with a horrendous, big-ass swim platform.

Max




One of the things you have to remember with designs like the Sea Sprite,
is that they increase waterline length significantly as they heel and
they always heel. If you increase her waterline by 2 feet the D/LWL
drops to 335. 3 feet makes it 290. The Sail Calc numbers are just for
upright boats. Unlike modern boat with fat asses, the older boats were
meant to be sailed on their sides. The old boat I sail has a waterline
length of 63 feet or so but we always sail her on her ear and the water
line is up around 80+ feet. The length on deck is about 96'. Modern
boats gain no WL when heeled and in fact some racers try to heel them in
light airs to reduce wetted area. They are meant to be sailed flat as
they lever the rudders out when heeled excessively. Note the prevalence
of twin rudders lately so sleds don't wipe out as much.

The Best Looking Boat
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
The Nordica will sail circles, figure eights and hexagons around the
Sea Sprite 34.


RB
35s5
NY

Interesting how it is boats that win races when it's someone elses and
skippers that win races when its your own. I would like to sail both
these boats but I think the Sea Sprite would have it on comfort and
liveability and the Nordica might be a bit quicker of the mark. In a
long distance race I would prefer the SS, in a beer can I would prefer
the Nordica or the 35s5.

The Best Looking Boat
 

"Gary" wrote in message

One of the things you have to remember with designs like the Sea Sprite,
is that they increase waterline length significantly as they heel and they
always heel. If you increase her waterline by 2 feet the D/LWL drops to
335. 3 feet makes it 290. The Sail Calc numbers are just for upright
boats. Unlike modern boat with fat asses, the older boats were meant to
be sailed on their sides. The old boat I sail has a waterline length of
63 feet or so but we always sail her on her ear and the water line is up
around 80+ feet. The length on deck is about 96'. Modern boats gain no
WL when heeled and in fact some racers try to heel them in light airs to
reduce wetted area. They are meant to be sailed flat as they lever the
rudders out when heeled excessively. Note the prevalence of twin rudders
lately so sleds don't wipe out as much.

I can concur with your observations Gary..... yet it's not LWL alone that
will qualify speed potential. Basically I believe both the Sea Sprite &
Nordica are downwind oriented vessels. Sail Area, wetted surface and
displacement are mitigating factors as to speed potential off the wind. My
Nordica carries her beam well forward and aft of amidships. From the
description of sailing given by Max... I can agree with his descriptions of
fair upwind and absolutely astounding downwind performance with my vessel as
well. I don't have a racing boat... not even close. I cruise and take my
time. It's the journey and not the destination.

CM