Trailerable Sailboats
 

Hi awhile ago I sold my Westsail 32, after many long years of fine
service. I just can't afford the slip fees any longer. I held on as
long as I could but when they decided to turn our marina into a condo
and private marina it was time to sell. Anyway, It's really hard being
without a boat, so I have been thinking about a trailerable sailboat as
there is plenty of room next to the house to store the boat on a
trailer. Something in the 18-20' range. My offshore days are in the
past so she will pretty much spend her time on the ICW and the St Johns
River with an occasional venture offshore if the weather is
exceptional. A boat that is large enough to have a small cabin yet
small enough for one man to rig. Does anyone know where I might start
my search? what boats I might start looking at?

Thanks ahead,

Phil

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Check the Nordica 20

http://www.nordicaboats.com/

CM


"Capri" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi awhile ago I sold my Westsail 32, after many long years of fine
service. I just can't afford the slip fees any longer. I held on as
long as I could but when they decided to turn our marina into a condo
and private marina it was time to sell. Anyway, It's really hard being
without a boat, so I have been thinking about a trailerable sailboat as
there is plenty of room next to the house to store the boat on a
trailer. Something in the 18-20' range. My offshore days are in the
past so she will pretty much spend her time on the ICW and the St Johns
River with an occasional venture offshore if the weather is
exceptional. A boat that is large enough to have a small cabin yet
small enough for one man to rig. Does anyone know where I might start
my search? what boats I might start looking at?

Thanks ahead,

Phil

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Express 20

Trailerable Sailboats
 

"Capri" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi awhile ago I sold my Westsail 32, after many long years of fine
service. I just can't afford the slip fees any longer. I held on as
long as I could but when they decided to turn our marina into a condo
and private marina it was time to sell. Anyway, It's really hard being
without a boat, so I have been thinking about a trailerable sailboat as
there is plenty of room next to the house to store the boat on a
trailer. Something in the 18-20' range. My offshore days are in the
past so she will pretty much spend her time on the ICW and the St Johns
River with an occasional venture offshore if the weather is
exceptional. A boat that is large enough to have a small cabin yet
small enough for one man to rig. Does anyone know where I might start
my search? what boats I might start looking at?

I had a Starwind 19 for a few years. Did quite a few overnights (2 adults)
and took it offshore quite a few times too (Jersey coast). It was a sturdy
little boat and sailed very well. I sold it when I moved. Here is a review I
found online; I'd say it's right on the money.
Scout

Strengths: easy to setup and sail. Trailers like a breeze. Factory
deck plan is adequate with few modifications necessary. handles 25 mph winds
and choppy water surprisingly well. Very stable design with big boat lines.
GREAT boat to learn on before moving up. Large cockpit for the size of boat
(19').
Weaknesses: Not as fast as most some 18-20. Hull rating somewhere
around 5.8 mph. Stern rail guard not necessary, but factory original main
traveler uses the rail guard as a simple traveler system.
Review Summary: Overall a very pleasant boat to sail and own if you
are limited to a trailerable style. Taylor's designs are superb (as now seen
in Precision sailboats) especially where maximizing available space in a
small boat is essential. Wellcraft is known for building brickhouses in boat
hulls. The Starwind 19 is a sturdy as she can be. The construction is
commendable.

Trailerable Sailboats
 

West Wight Potter 19.

Amen!



"Capri" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi awhile ago I sold my Westsail 32, after many long years of fine
service. I just can't afford the slip fees any longer. I held on as
long as I could but when they decided to turn our marina into a condo
and private marina it was time to sell. Anyway, It's really hard being
without a boat, so I have been thinking about a trailerable sailboat as
there is plenty of room next to the house to store the boat on a
trailer. Something in the 18-20' range. My offshore days are in the
past so she will pretty much spend her time on the ICW and the St Johns
River with an occasional venture offshore if the weather is
exceptional. A boat that is large enough to have a small cabin yet
small enough for one man to rig. Does anyone know where I might start
my search? what boats I might start looking at?

Thanks ahead,

Phil

Trailerable Sailboats
 

We love our Matilda 20.
http://members.shaw.ca/matildasail/

Regards,
JR

--


---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Eliminate annoying spam!
My mailbox is protected by iHateSpam, the #1-rated spam buster."

http://www.ihatespam.net


"Capri" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi awhile ago I sold my Westsail 32, after many long years of fine
service. I just can't afford the slip fees any longer. I held on as
long as I could but when they decided to turn our marina into a condo
and private marina it was time to sell. Anyway, It's really hard being
without a boat, so I have been thinking about a trailerable sailboat as
there is plenty of room next to the house to store the boat on a
trailer. Something in the 18-20' range. My offshore days are in the
past so she will pretty much spend her time on the ICW and the St Johns
River with an occasional venture offshore if the weather is
exceptional. A boat that is large enough to have a small cabin yet
small enough for one man to rig. Does anyone know where I might start
my search? what boats I might start looking at?

Thanks ahead,

Phil

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Melges 24. It is a racing class, and because of this it
will hold it's value well, and be easy to resell. The mast
is carbon and easy to raise. It can be ramp launched,
and it's fast.

http://www.melges.com/24melges.html



"Capri" wrote
Hi awhile ago I sold my Westsail 32, after many long years of fine
service. I just can't afford the slip fees any longer. I held on as
long as I could but when they decided to turn our marina into a condo
and private marina it was time to sell. Anyway, It's really hard being
without a boat, so I have been thinking about a trailerable sailboat as
there is plenty of room next to the house to store the boat on a
trailer. Something in the 18-20' range. My offshore days are in the
past so she will pretty much spend her time on the ICW and the St Johns
River with an occasional venture offshore if the weather is
exceptional. A boat that is large enough to have a small cabin yet
small enough for one man to rig. Does anyone know where I might start
my search? what boats I might start looking at?

Thanks ahead,

Phil

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Sounds like a West Wight Potter P19 would fit your requirements. The
folks at International Marine would be worth contacting!

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Capri wrote:
Hi awhile ago I sold my Westsail 32, after many long years of fine
service. I just can't afford the slip fees any longer.

These things come & go in cycles. Ironically enough the
"waterfront is too valuable to waste on boaters" cycle is
peaking at the same time the "let's go ahead and pollute the
heck out of the water while there's still some left" cycle
seem to have peaked at the same time. Just think of the look
on those rich condo-dwellers faces when they realize they've
got a front row seat on a cess pool.


.... Anyway, It's really hard being
without a boat, so I have been thinking about a trailerable sailboat as
there is plenty of room next to the house to store the boat on a
trailer.

You can afford a house but not a boat??

... Something in the 18-20' range. My offshore days are in the
past so she will pretty much spend her time on the ICW and the St Johns
River with an occasional venture offshore if the weather is
exceptional. A boat that is large enough to have a small cabin yet
small enough for one man to rig. Does anyone know where I might start
my search? what boats I might start looking at?


Yep, sure do.

Since you like the classic type, start out with a Com-Pac
16. Small, shippy, easily handled, not expensive... a fun
boat. They also make a newer catboat version in some sizes
up into the 20+ foot range, they are really easy to rig up
and roomier, but have a higher price tag.

How about
http://www.boatshow.com/BayHen.html
one of these in our sailing club, a classic looking and
smart-sailing little boat... a bit tippy like all sharpies,
and not enough room in the cabin for a real party, but all
boats are a compromise

Or
http://www.sailingtexas.com/sdovekiea.html
unfortunately this particular one is gone but these are
awesomely practical little boats.

My wife and I sailed & cruised in a water-ballast Hunter 19
for some years, and found that to be unmatched by any
trailerable I ever saw for easy handling on water or wheels,
room & comfort, and sailing characteristics. But I doubt
you'd like the looks of it, I never particularly did. We
sailed in company with a lot of trailerable sailors and I
was constantly amazed at how tippy, cramped, unhandy (people
spend hours rigging & unrigging, but if you ask them "it
only takes 15 minutes" is the standard reply) most
trailerables are. So careful shopping is in order unless you
already know exactly what you are willing to compromise on.

BTW the recommendation of a West Wight Potter is also a good
one.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Trailerable Sailboats
 

In article . com,
Capri wrote:
Hi awhile ago I sold my Westsail 32, after many long years of fine
service. I just can't afford the slip fees any longer. I held on as
long as I could but when they decided to turn our marina into a condo
and private marina it was time to sell. Anyway, It's really hard being
without a boat, so I have been thinking about a trailerable sailboat as
there is plenty of room next to the house to store the boat on a
trailer. Something in the 18-20' range. My offshore days are in the
past so she will pretty much spend her time on the ICW and the St Johns
River with an occasional venture offshore if the weather is
exceptional. A boat that is large enough to have a small cabin yet
small enough for one man to rig. Does anyone know where I might start
my search? what boats I might start looking at?

Well, it's pretty easy to pick up a Cal 20 or Santana 22 for a low
cost. Both are very stiff, seaworthy boats (with some work), and have
drafts of about 3-1/2, so trailering isn't a problem. The Cal, for
example can accomodate three people in a pinch, depending on the
interior, but I wouldn't recommend it for more than a night. Even one
person for more than a couple of days isn't a lot of fun.

Both are easily rigged and sailed by one person. The Cal has an
exceptionally large standard rudder/tiller, which makes it easy to
handle even if the wind picks up.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Trailerable Sailboats
 

In article 7hxgf.158749$Io.57567@clgrps13,
Capt.Mooron wrote:
Check the Nordica 20

http://www.nordicaboats.com/

CM


"Capri" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi awhile ago I sold my Westsail 32, after many long years of fine
service. I just can't afford the slip fees any longer. I held on as
long as I could but when they decided to turn our marina into a condo
and private marina it was time to sell. Anyway, It's really hard being
without a boat, so I have been thinking about a trailerable sailboat as
there is plenty of room next to the house to store the boat on a
trailer. Something in the 18-20' range. My offshore days are in the
past so she will pretty much spend her time on the ICW and the St Johns
River with an occasional venture offshore if the weather is
exceptional. A boat that is large enough to have a small cabin yet
small enough for one man to rig. Does anyone know where I might start
my search? what boats I might start looking at?

I would think a bulb-like or fin keel would be more appropriate for
what you're looking for. The Cal, for example, has a fairly modern
keel design, given how long ago it was designed.

http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Dave wrote:
Dunno. Up here the first seems to be going strong. But the water quality has
been improving for some time.

OK let's see you drink some.

DSK

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
I would think a bulb-like or fin keel would be more appropriate for
what you're looking for. The Cal, for example, has a fairly modern
keel design, given how long ago it was designed.

http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html


The Cal 20 is a ridiculous choice. It's all cockpit and no cabin. It
performs poorly in heavy air and it is no easier to step the mast than on a
Nordica 16 or Nordica 20.

The Nordica 20 is one of the few boats that has an inboard diesel, can be
ramp launched and will sleep 4 in comfort with a built in head , galley and
has only a 2.5ft draft. It will out perform a Cal 20 anyday as I have proven
on many occasions. You can actually walk around the deck of a Nordica 20 and
it has life lines all around. The 2 cylinder diesel can be hand cranked,
there is actual plumbing with a sink and stove inside. The bunks are 8 feet.
The storage is excellent.

Fairly modern keel design... what a laugh! The Cal 20 is a low end pig in a
poke.

CM

Trailerable Sailboats
 

In article TdKgf.207483$ir4.176733@edtnps90,
Capt.Mooron wrote:
Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
I would think a bulb-like or fin keel would be more appropriate for
what you're looking for. The Cal, for example, has a fairly modern
keel design, given how long ago it was designed.

http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html


The Cal 20 is a ridiculous choice. It's all cockpit and no cabin. It
performs poorly in heavy air and it is no easier to step the mast than on a
Nordica 16 or Nordica 20.

You know nothing about the Cal, obviously. It was designed for sailing
on the SF bay, and handles heavy air with out a problem. It's a
relatively dry boat for its size and has a very decent interior, with,
as I said room for three if necessary. Cals have crossed the Pacific
more than a few times.

I can't speak to the comparison of stepping the mast with a Nordica,
but it's pretty easy to do if you plan it well. I put it up on the
water with one other person, and on the hard it would be easier.

The Nordica 20 is one of the few boats that has an inboard diesel, can be
ramp launched and will sleep 4 in comfort with a built in head , galley and
has only a 2.5ft draft. It will out perform a Cal 20 anyday as I have proven
on many occasions. You can actually walk around the deck of a Nordica 20 and
it has life lines all around. The 2 cylinder diesel can be hand cranked,
there is actual plumbing with a sink and stove inside. The bunks are 8 feet.
The storage is excellent.

Why the heck would I want the weight of an inboard engine on a 20 foot
boat??? That's crazy. I suppose the Nordica 20 has 6 foot headroom
also. New ones are wildly expensive... $15K, whereas you can get a Cal
20 that is near perfect for under $2K. The Cal will kick your butt all
over the bay and back. You wouldn't stand a chance.

Fairly modern keel design... what a laugh! The Cal 20 is a low end pig in a
poke.

Like the Nordica has a modern one.... right, sure.

The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.

Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Trailerable Sailboats
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

You know nothing about the Cal, obviously. It was designed for sailing
on the SF bay, and handles heavy air with out a problem. It's a
relatively dry boat for its size and has a very decent interior, with,
as I said room for three if necessary. Cals have crossed the Pacific
more than a few times.


I've sailed them... they suck and not one Cal 20 has crossed the Pacific. A
Nordica 20 though has crossed the North Atlantic. They are cheap and
worthless as the asking price shows!


Why the heck would I want the weight of an inboard engine on a 20 foot
boat???

WTF are you on about.... it's a 150 lb engine!! It's not like you're
frickin' car-topping you IDIOT!

That's crazy. I suppose the Nordica 20 has 6 foot headroom

You suppose wrong... then again that's no surprise.

also. New ones are wildly expensive... $15K,

You dipstick... they have been out of production since 1985 and average at
about 7K Cdn

whereas you can get a Cal
20 that is near perfect for under $2K.

Because it's a POS!!!

The Cal will kick your butt all
over the bay and back. You wouldn't stand a chance.

I just told you I beat Cal 20s all the time in a full keeler. Those Cal 20s
suck backwash. They are wet, sail poorly and are a poor choice for anything
but a day sail.


Like the Nordica has a modern one.... right, sure.

It's a full keel cut-away forefoot.... did you even go to the site I
indicated?


The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.

What a load of desperate CRAP! It's dated, a slug and useless for anything
but short daysails in very protected waters. A MacGregor 19 is a better boat
than your crappy Cal 20


Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....

You're GAY!!


CM

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Dave wrote:
I don't drink salt water.

That's a convenient excuse.

How about fresh water with some arsenic & PCB's? Yummy!

DSK

Trailerable Sailboats
 

In article Y0Lgf.207490$ir4.172254@edtnps90,
Capt.Mooron wrote:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

You know nothing about the Cal, obviously. It was designed for sailing
on the SF bay, and handles heavy air with out a problem. It's a
relatively dry boat for its size and has a very decent interior, with,
as I said room for three if necessary. Cals have crossed the Pacific
more than a few times.

I've sailed them... they suck and not one Cal 20 has crossed the Pacific. A
Nordica 20 though has crossed the North Atlantic. They are cheap and
worthless as the asking price shows!

I guess John Vigor is wrong...

Bull****. I bet you haven't but claim you did.

Why the heck would I want the weight of an inboard engine on a 20 foot
boat???

WTF are you on about.... it's a 150 lb engine!! It's not like you're
frickin' car-topping you IDIOT!

That's a lot for a 20 ft boat!

That's crazy. I suppose the Nordica 20 has 6 foot headroom

You suppose wrong... then again that's no surprise.

But, it's big enough for a jerk like you! Your ego is at least that
big.

also. New ones are wildly expensive... $15K,

You dipstick... they have been out of production since 1985 and average at
about 7K Cdn

That's still wildly more than a Cal 20.

whereas you can get a Cal
20 that is near perfect for under $2K.

Because it's a POS!!!

You're an expert on POS. I defer to you.

The Cal will kick your butt all
over the bay and back. You wouldn't stand a chance.

I just told you I beat Cal 20s all the time in a full keeler. Those Cal 20s
suck backwash. They are wet, sail poorly and are a poor choice for anything
but a day sail.

BS. You know nothing about Cals.

Like the Nordica has a modern one.... right, sure.

It's a full keel cut-away forefoot.... did you even go to the site I
indicated?

It's not a modern design. Sorry.

The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.

What a load of desperate CRAP! It's dated, a slug and useless for anything
but short daysails in very protected waters. A MacGregor 19 is a better boat
than your crappy Cal 20

Sure, whatever you say.

Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....

You're GAY!!

Still angry at being thrown off Usenet I see. What did you do that
your ISP tossed you? Please tell us.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Capt.Mooron wrote:
I've sailed them... they suck and not one Cal 20 has crossed the Pacific

Depends on how you define. A few have sailed to Hawaii,
which is offically termed a TransPac by many.


... A
Nordica 20 though has crossed the North Atlantic.

So has at least one Cal 20, there was a magazine article
about it. 2 college kids, one of whom later went on record
describing the trip as "crazy" and saying he'd never do it
again.

But it's possible, because it's been done.



Why the heck would I want the weight of an inboard engine on a 20 foot
boat???


WTF are you on about.... it's a 150 lb engine!! It's not like you're
frickin' car-topping you IDIOT!


Yep

Depnds on the boat. A Cal 20 is not all that light weight,
it could easily benefit from an inboard.





I just told you I beat Cal 20s all the time in a full keeler.

A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They
will plane nicely.


The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.


hmm, that's a bit of an exaggeration IMHO


What a load of desperate CRAP! It's dated, a slug and useless for anything
but short daysails in very protected waters. A MacGregor 19 is a better boat
than your crappy Cal 20


OK, that's a LOT of an exaggeration. Was your mom scared by
a fin keel just before you were born, or something??


Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....


You're GAY!!


Why don't you two get a room?

The Cal 20 is a nice boat, but it's not really trailerable
unless you have either a perfect ramp or a lift, and don't
mind setting up a more complex rig. And I'm sorry Mooron,
I've sailed in company with a Halman and there's no way in
heck one of those is going to keep up with a Cal 20.

BTW how about one of these
http://www.selectyachts.co.uk/crabbershome.asp?ArtID=5

http://www.boatshow.com/CornishShrimper.html

This is one of the boats that Navvie (remember him?)
insisted should be considered in his wager that he could
name a more seaworthy 15 footer...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Trailerable Sailboats
 

"DSK" wrote in message

A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They will plane
nicely.

No.. I beat him easily with my Nordica 20.... he was one of those whiny
sailors... you know... like Ganz! Going on and on about PHRF and windward
ability. A text book sailor....

OK, that's a LOT of an exaggeration. Was your mom scared by a fin keel
just before you were born, or something??


Fin Keelers are okay... if you can't get a real sailboat! :-)


The Cal 20 is a nice boat, but it's not really trailerable unless you have
either a perfect ramp or a lift, and don't mind setting up a more
complex rig. And I'm sorry Mooron, I've sailed in company with a Halman
and there's no way in heck one of those is going to keep up with a Cal 20.

Like we've stated here before... it's not the boat ... it's the sailor. I
have easily bested a Cal 20 on many occasions with my Nordica 20.

BTW how about one of these
http://www.selectyachts.co.uk/crabbershome.asp?ArtID=5

http://www.boatshow.com/CornishShrimper.html

This is one of the boats that Navvie (remember him?) insisted should be
considered in his wager that he could name a more seaworthy 15 footer...

They look okay... but I don't have any practical experience with either of
them. I do however have experience with a Cal 20..... it sucks! I've sailed
them and have been left with less than a good impression of the vessel's
abilities.

Look Doug... a fin keeler that can be overtaken by a full keeler to windward
is beyond skill sets... it just illustrates a design problem that can't be
compensated for by skill. The Cal 20 and Catalina 22 I regularly trounced
both were in a quandary as to how I managed it. No it wasn't the inboard.
There was a 17 ft fin keeler that always beat the Cal 20.

There was even the time that I sailed through the fleet on the Wednesday
Night Race [I wasn't in the race that night and yes going in their
direction] ... towing a 10ft inflatable dinghy with a 15hp outboard with my
30 footer. Now that settled a lot of conjectures as to my vessel's
abilities.

CM

Trailerable Sailboats
 

In article ,
DSK wrote:
Depnds on the boat. A Cal 20 is not all that light weight,
it could easily benefit from an inboard.

Actually, it has a well for an "inboard" outboard. Personally, I
didn't like it and closed it up. You have to slow the boat to almost
zero to pull the outboard out of the well without getting soaked. A
transom mount is much better.

I just told you I beat Cal 20s all the time in a full keeler.

A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They
will plane nicely.

Hmmm... never thought of that.

The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.


hmm, that's a bit of an exaggeration IMHO

This is Usenet!!

What a load of desperate CRAP! It's dated, a slug and useless for anything
but short daysails in very protected waters. A MacGregor 19 is a better boat
than your crappy Cal 20


OK, that's a LOT of an exaggeration. Was your mom scared by
a fin keel just before you were born, or something??

You should not, definitely not, bring Mooron's mom into the
conversation.

Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....
You're GAY!!
Why don't you two get a room?

Sorry, but I prefer my privacy.

The Cal 20 is a nice boat, but it's not really trailerable
unless you have either a perfect ramp or a lift, and don't
mind setting up a more complex rig. And I'm sorry Mooron,
I've sailed in company with a Halman and there's no way in
heck one of those is going to keep up with a Cal 20.

The rig isn't really that complicated. Two stays per side, as the
third set don't need to be used. Even the guy I know who worked at the
Cal factory couldn't understand why they did that. The forward stays
just interfere with the jib.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Trailerable Sailboats
 

In article hYLgf.158916$Io.90437@clgrps13,
Capt.Mooron wrote:
A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They will plane
nicely.

No.. I beat him easily with my Nordica 20.... he was one of those whiny
sailors... you know... like Ganz! Going on and on about PHRF and windward
ability. A text book sailor....

Sounds to me like you're the winning whiner.

The Cal 20 is a nice boat, but it's not really trailerable unless you have
either a perfect ramp or a lift, and don't mind setting up a more
complex rig. And I'm sorry Mooron, I've sailed in company with a Halman
and there's no way in heck one of those is going to keep up with a Cal 20.

Like we've stated here before... it's not the boat ... it's the sailor. I
have easily bested a Cal 20 on many occasions with my Nordica 20.

More bs. Gee, you're great at it!

They look okay... but I don't have any practical experience with either of
them. I do however have experience with a Cal 20..... it sucks! I've sailed
them and have been left with less than a good impression of the vessel's
abilities.

No you don't.

Look Doug... a fin keeler that can be overtaken by a full keeler to windward
is beyond skill sets... it just illustrates a design problem that can't be
compensated for by skill. The Cal 20 and Catalina 22 I regularly trounced
both were in a quandary as to how I managed it. No it wasn't the inboard.
There was a 17 ft fin keeler that always beat the Cal 20.

There's no comparison between the Cal and the Cat. More proof that you
don't know what you're talking about.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Capt.Mooron wrote:
Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
I would think a bulb-like or fin keel would be more appropriate for
what you're looking for. The Cal, for example, has a fairly modern
keel design, given how long ago it was designed.

http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html



The Cal 20 is a ridiculous choice. It's all cockpit and no cabin. It
performs poorly in heavy air and it is no easier to step the mast than on a
Nordica 16 or Nordica 20.

The Nordica 20 is one of the few boats that has an inboard diesel, can be
ramp launched and will sleep 4 in comfort with a built in head , galley and
has only a 2.5ft draft. It will out perform a Cal 20 anyday as I have proven
on many occasions. You can actually walk around the deck of a Nordica 20 and
it has life lines all around. The 2 cylinder diesel can be hand cranked,
there is actual plumbing with a sink and stove inside. The bunks are 8 feet.
The storage is excellent.

Fairly modern keel design... what a laugh! The Cal 20 is a low end pig in a
poke.

CM


There is a huge racing fleet of Cal 20s up here in the PNW. The class
racing is very competitive. Lots of them cruise in the summer. Not
many are trailer sailed though. Cheap, honest fun.

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Capt.Mooron wrote:
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

You know nothing about the Cal, obviously. It was designed for sailing

on the SF bay, and handles heavy air with out a problem. It's a
relatively dry boat for its size and has a very decent interior, with,
as I said room for three if necessary. Cals have crossed the Pacific
more than a few times.



I've sailed them... they suck and not one Cal 20 has crossed the Pacific. A
Nordica 20 though has crossed the North Atlantic. They are cheap and
worthless as the asking price shows!



Why the heck would I want the weight of an inboard engine on a 20 foot
boat???


WTF are you on about.... it's a 150 lb engine!! It's not like you're
frickin' car-topping you IDIOT!


That's crazy. I suppose the Nordica 20 has 6 foot headroom


You suppose wrong... then again that's no surprise.


also. New ones are wildly expensive... $15K,


You dipstick... they have been out of production since 1985 and average at
about 7K Cdn

whereas you can get a Cal

20 that is near perfect for under $2K.


Because it's a POS!!!

The Cal will kick your butt all

over the bay and back. You wouldn't stand a chance.


I just told you I beat Cal 20s all the time in a full keeler. Those Cal 20s
suck backwash. They are wet, sail poorly and are a poor choice for anything
but a day sail.



Like the Nordica has a modern one.... right, sure.


It's a full keel cut-away forefoot.... did you even go to the site I
indicated?


The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.


What a load of desperate CRAP! It's dated, a slug and useless for anything
but short daysails in very protected waters. A MacGregor 19 is a better boat
than your crappy Cal 20


Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....


You're GAY!!


CM


Whoa, fairly hostile and mis-informed. Check out :
http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html
One has been sailed across the pacific (highly tricked)

Trailerable Sailboats
 

In article XvSgf.579668$tl2.187708@pd7tw3no,
Gary wrote:
There is a huge racing fleet of Cal 20s up here in the PNW. The class
racing is very competitive. Lots of them cruise in the summer. Not
many are trailer sailed though. Cheap, honest fun.

Where in the PNW? Near Thom?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Trailerable Sailboats
 

In article BMSgf.575467$1i.244687@pd7tw2no,
Gary wrote:
Whoa, fairly hostile and mis-informed. Check out :
http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html
One has been sailed across the pacific (highly tricked)

I tried to tell him, but he wouldn't listen.




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Trailerable Sailboats
 

A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They will plane
nicely.


Capt.Mooron wrote:
No.. I beat him easily with my Nordica 20....

After tying a bucket to his keel? Actually it would probably
take 2 buckets...


Like we've stated here before... it's not the boat ... it's the sailor. I
have easily bested a Cal 20 on many occasions with my Nordica 20.


That's possible, we beat a number of bigger & theoretically
faster boats in our lowly Hunter 19.

It's also possible there was something wrong with the boat.
Have you sailed against more than one Cal 20? Any one-design
fleets? Before making such a sweeping condemnation (even if
it does have a fin keel) you should check out more than a
single one.

Not that the Cal 20 is the boat of the century, but they're OK.



Look Doug... a fin keeler that can be overtaken by a full keeler to windward
is beyond skill sets... it just illustrates a design problem that can't be
compensated for by skill.

Very likely, and that's why I suggest there might have been
something wrong with that particular boat. Cal 20s are just
plain not as slow as you say.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Trailerable Sailboats
 

"Gary" wrote in message

Whoa, fairly hostile and mis-informed.

When replying to Ganz... I never allow facts to confuse the truth! :-)

Honestly Gary... when debating anything with Jon he gets temperamental and
throws tantrums like a child...... he has issues and it's useless to stick
to facts, utilize logic or rational. I suggest - Don't stick to the facts...
Just stick it to Ganz!

He reports me to my ISP then when I finally get back on.... follows me
around the newsgroup like a stalker.

Seriously.. why would you desire to undertake a debate with someone who does
nothing but insult you? Yet Ganz refuses to killfile me. Why is that?

CM

Trailerable Sailboats
 

"DSK" wrote in message

It's also possible there was something wrong with the boat. Have you
sailed against more than one Cal 20?


It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how could
you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or factual?

Let's face it.. Ganz is a whiny crybaby with no sense of humour.

CM

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Capt.Mooron wrote:
It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how could
you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or factual?


Because we know that you really really hate fin keels?

Let's face it.. Ganz is a whiny crybaby with no sense of humour.


Maybe so, maybe not... at least he's not like Boobsie.

DSK

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article XvSgf.579668$tl2.187708@pd7tw3no,
Gary wrote:

There is a huge racing fleet of Cal 20s up here in the PNW. The class
racing is very competitive. Lots of them cruise in the summer. Not
many are trailer sailed though. Cheap, honest fun.


Where in the PNW? Near Thom?

Victoria, where is Thom?

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Capt.Mooron wrote:
"Gary" wrote in message


Whoa, fairly hostile and mis-informed.


When replying to Ganz... I never allow facts to confuse the truth! :-)

Honestly Gary... when debating anything with Jon he gets temperamental and
throws tantrums like a child...... he has issues and it's useless to stick
to facts, utilize logic or rational. I suggest - Don't stick to the facts...
Just stick it to Ganz!

He reports me to my ISP then when I finally get back on.... follows me
around the newsgroup like a stalker.

Seriously.. why would you desire to undertake a debate with someone who does
nothing but insult you? Yet Ganz refuses to killfile me. Why is that?

CM


I gather you have issues........
It sounds to me like you haven't been able to successfully argue with
facts so you are resorting to insults. Bring it up a notch. It's not
like you are living together.

Trailerable Sailboats
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Capt.Mooron wrote:
It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how
could you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or
factual?


Because we know that you really really hate fin keels?

Not really... I'm just expected to show a modicum of disdain towards less
capable vessels


Maybe so, maybe not... at least he's not like Boobsie.

Correct... Ganz takes himself way too seriously... Bobsprit is a running gag
and he's aware of that.

You seem to forget Ganz's "off the deep end" near rabid attacks from last
year... never mind that Bobsprit has never reported me for calling him Gay!

CM

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Check the Nordica 20


http://www.nordicaboats.com/


Hey, that's perfect if you want something ugly, slow and dull!!! Maybe
get two?!

RB
35s5
NY

Trailerable Sailboats
 

"Gary" wrote in message

I gather you have issues........
It sounds to me like you haven't been able to successfully argue with
facts so you are resorting to insults.

Wait a minute Gary... this is ASA... insults are part of the package. I
defended Ganz in the past... I even tried to help him along .... but his
actions went south in a hurry last year. Reporting me was just plain
uncalled for.

Bring it up a notch. It's not
like you are living together.

To who's advantage would that be? Since I haven't responded to any of your
posts in the manner I reply to Ganz... I can't understand why it concerns
you?

Don't take this form too seriously...... it will lead to high blood
pressure.

CM

Trailerable Sailboats
 

"Gary" wrote in message

Victoria, where is Thom?

Victoria??!! Isn't that a retirement community? :-)

I was out on Bowen Island visiting a friend who just bought a nice place
there this summer. I spent time at Nanaimo and Salt Spring as well... years
ago. I sailed the roaring Malaspina as well as the Charlottes. I stayed on
Texada and saw Dick Island.... they say when the fog rolls in thick... you
can't see Dick! ::-)

CM

Trailerable Sailboats
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

Hey, that's perfect if you want something ugly, slow and dull!!!

No really... if those were his parameters.... I would have suggested a
Benneteau35s5!

Fin Keeler!

CM

Trailerable Sailboats
 

No really... if those were his parameters.... I would have suggested a
Benneteau35s5!


C'mon, Mooron. Show some imagination. Everyone knows your tub is slow.
Try a different tack...anything.


RB
35s5...a faster boat
NY

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Mooron can't do anything more than bluster. He's very bitter guy. I'm sorry
for him.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Capt.Mooron wrote:
It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how
could you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or
factual?


Because we know that you really really hate fin keels?

Let's face it.. Ganz is a whiny crybaby with no sense of humour.


Maybe so, maybe not... at least he's not like Boobsie.

DSK

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Like I said, he can't get past his anger. It's pathological.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:LE1hf.128481$S4.78317@edtnps84...

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Capt.Mooron wrote:
It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how
could you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or
factual?


Because we know that you really really hate fin keels?

Not really... I'm just expected to show a modicum of disdain towards less
capable vessels


Maybe so, maybe not... at least he's not like Boobsie.

Correct... Ganz takes himself way too seriously... Bobsprit is a running
gag and he's aware of that.

You seem to forget Ganz's "off the deep end" near rabid attacks from last
year... never mind that Bobsprit has never reported me for calling him
Gay!

CM

Trailerable Sailboats
 

Gary, it's really pretty sad. Mooron got booted, apparently, because he
violated their terms of service. I'm glad he's back, and has apparently
convinced them that he won't do whatever he did again.

Mooron, unfortunately, is really into lying. Which he's obviously doing. I
feel sorry for him.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gary" wrote in message
news:s%%gf.586436$tl2.431814@pd7tw3no...
Capt.Mooron wrote:
"Gary" wrote in message


Whoa, fairly hostile and mis-informed.


When replying to Ganz... I never allow facts to confuse the truth! :-)

Honestly Gary... when debating anything with Jon he gets temperamental
and throws tantrums like a child...... he has issues and it's useless
to stick to facts, utilize logic or rational. I suggest - Don't stick to
the facts... Just stick it to Ganz!

He reports me to my ISP then when I finally get back on.... follows me
around the newsgroup like a stalker.

Seriously.. why would you desire to undertake a debate with someone who
does nothing but insult you? Yet Ganz refuses to killfile me. Why is
that?

CM
I gather you have issues........
It sounds to me like you haven't been able to successfully argue with
facts so you are resorting to insults. Bring it up a notch. It's not
like you are living together.