"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Since I've actually been in PHRF races and most of you only read about
them, here's a little test for you. The Wednesday night race consists
of the following boats:

Spirit 23
Coronado 27
Siedlemann 30
Catalina 30
J24
Nordic 30
Express 30
Kirie Elite 32
Beneteau 35s5
Beneteau 36.7
Farr 38
C&C 34R
C&C 115

Quite a range of boats and ratings....NOW...what is the biggest
inherent flaw in this race...and most races with a range of boats like
this? Spare me the answers with NO answers. If you can't understand the
basic flaw don't pretend that you can.
Well?


Robert B
35s5...a boat that would have a tougher time winning PHRF, or one design,
or the special olympics
NY

Ah, Bob, don't know how to break the news to you, but the reason these guys
with the "slow" older boats do so well on Wednesday night is that they've
owned their boats for years, and they can sail them to their rating, more
often than not, they can sail them faster than their rating. They know their
boats, something that generally takes a little longer than a couple of hours
to achieve You forget, or more likely, never knew, that PHRF is merely a
RATING system for the YACHT. I told you to read that last paragraph twice,
maybe I should have told you to read it over and over again until you
actually understood what they were trying to say. PHRF does not now, nor has
it ever, advocated any particular method of scoring a race. If you looked
far and wide you could find a group of sailors that handicap lack of skill,
the overwhelming majority do not, however. Best stick to trying to outsail
those "slower" boats.

John Cairns

Ah, Bob, don't know how to break the news to you, but the reason these
guys
with the "slow" older boats do so well on Wednesday night is that
they've
owned their boats for years


Ah, joe with the sad sorry Catalina 28....my friend wins with her
Catalina 30 (owned ONE season) because it's EASY to sail it to it's
rating. Same for the Ericson 32 my friends sail. In both cases they are
less experienced than some of the crews on faster boats that are
battling with ratings culled from professional crewed boats over the
years.
You truly have no clue. And I must sadly say that your choice in boats
is further proof of that. Who the hell buys a Catalina 28?

RB
35s5...a boat with all the trimmings!
NY

"Capt. Rob" shat out this gem
oups.com...
Ah, Bob, don't know how to break the news to you, but the reason these
guys
with the "slow" older boats do so well on Wednesday night is that
they've
owned their boats for years


You truly have no clue. And I must sadly say that your choice in boats
is further proof of that. Who the hell buys a Catalina 28?

RB
35s5...a boat with all the trimmings! Too bad it can't sail itself!
NY


If I had to guess bubbles, I'd say it was the guy that gets the flags.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...97600332fRndbR

0wned!!!!!!!!!

John Cairns

If I had to guess bubbles, I'd say it was the guy that gets the flags.




Woweee! I just got finished telling everyone that my friend wins with
her Catalina 30 owned ONE SEASON. Thanks for making the point. Every
racer I know laughs at PHRF because the crappy boats generally have the
advantage. A Catalina 28 is a turd...and not a very intelligent turd to
buy as turds go!

RB
35s5....a boat that would literally sail circles around any Catalina
28!
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:

RB
35s5....a boat that circles turds like a starving vulture
28!
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:

Woweee! I just got finished telling everyone that my friend wins with
her Catalina 30 owned ONE SEASON. Thanks for making the point. Every
racer I know laughs at PHRF because the crappy boats generally have the
advantage. A Catalina 28 is a turd...and not a very intelligent turd to
buy as turds go!

RB
35s5....a boat that would literally sail circles around any Catalina
28!
NY


Bob, I'm very impressed that you appreciate this subtlety in PHRF.
Certain boats, especially modern designs, require extra skill to get
the most out of them. Further, boats that attract highly skilled
"professional" crews will have ratings the reflect their skills in all
aspects, such as spinnaker handling. The ratings will reflect this
since they tend to reflect the best use of a boat, not the average.
As a result, the average owner of a boat like a 35s5 will not be able
to sail to his rating, while a for less extreme design will be easier.

So how much of a "penalty" is this for the average sailor, with an
average crew. The minimum increment in PHRF is usually 3 seconds, but
only a fool would lose by a few seconds and then blame it on the
rating system. Clearly then the average benny sailor is, according to
Bob, going to sail perhaps 12 to 15 seconds slower than his rating.
For the 35s5 WK, this means the fairly low rating of 132 becomes in
practice 147 to 150. This puts the benny right in there with the
Catalina 36, slower than the Hunters. In fact, a quick scan of the
list shows that a variety of boats 36 feet or less have ratings under
150: Irwins, O'Days, Pearsons, Sabre's, Tartan's, etc.

Its nice to see that Bob realizes that although his boat may show
moments of speed, on average, its just another midsized daysailor, and
will frequently be passed by "crappy boats."

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
If I had to guess bubbles, I'd say it was the guy that gets the flags.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...97600332fRndbR

Bwahahahahahhahhahahhahhahahhahahahahhahahahaha

0wned!!!!!!!

Woweee! I just got finished telling everyone that my friend wins with
her Catalina 30 owned ONE SEASON.

Proof? Didn't think so.

RB
35s5....a boat that would literally sail circles around any Catalina
28! If I did any sailing, that is.
NY

When you can prove how fast your boat is, with you at the helm, post it up.
Like I said before, bubbles, the boat won't sail itself. The ratings mean
nothing. OTOH, your boat will impress the lubbers that you sail with.

John Cairns

the ericson 32 is a decent boat...it have a pretty favorable
rating?





" Same for the Ericson 32 my friends sail. In both cases they are
less experienced than some of the crews on faster boats that are
battling with ratings culled from professional crewed boats over the
years. "