The PHRF Flaw
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Capt. Rob wrote:
The biggest problem from Bob's point of view is that the
rules always
favor the best skippers.


I think you missed the point. The best skippers favor the
best boats,
skewing the PHRF in favor of lesser boats with "good"
skippers.

RB
35s5...a not so fast boat with a low rating because benny
bought some pro's!
NY

So you're claiming that your bendy is actually much slower than
its
rating would imply. In other words, it owes its low rating to
the
"pro's and semi-pro's" and not to its design. You'll have to
remember
that when you're passed by a Nonsuch.


if bob starts racing and , of course, losing a lot, will that
make the 35s rating go higher?

SBV

No. Besides, he'll never race.

John Cairns

The PHRF Flaw-I demonstrates my lack of skill
 

Ah, Bob, don't know how to break the news to you, but the reason these
guys
with the "slow" older boats do so well on Wednesday night is that
they've
owned their boats for years


Ah, joe with the sad sorry Catalina 28....my friend wins with her
Catalina 30 (owned ONE season) because it's EASY to sail it to it's
rating. Same for the Ericson 32 my friends sail. In both cases they are
less experienced than some of the crews on faster boats that are
battling with ratings culled from professional crewed boats over the
years.
You truly have no clue. And I must sadly say that your choice in boats
is further proof of that. Who the hell buys a Catalina 28?

RB
35s5...a boat with all the trimmings!
NY

The PHRF Flaw-It demonstrates my lack of skill
 

"Capt. Rob" shat out this gem
oups.com...
Ah, Bob, don't know how to break the news to you, but the reason these
guys
with the "slow" older boats do so well on Wednesday night is that
they've
owned their boats for years


You truly have no clue. And I must sadly say that your choice in boats
is further proof of that. Who the hell buys a Catalina 28?

RB
35s5...a boat with all the trimmings! Too bad it can't sail itself!
NY


If I had to guess bubbles, I'd say it was the guy that gets the flags.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...97600332fRndbR

0wned!!!!!!!!!

John Cairns

The PHRF Flaw-It demonstrates my lack of skill
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 05:57:52 GMT, "John Cairns"
scribbled thusly:

If I had to guess bubbles, I'd say it was the guy that gets the flags.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...97600332fRndbR

0wned!!!!!!!!!

John Cairns


International?
Who else was there?


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Well, you know, just the Canadians. Not much to brag about.

John Cairns

The PHRF Flaw-It demonstrates my lack of skill
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 06:18:56 GMT, "John Cairns"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 05:57:52 GMT, "John Cairns"
scribbled thusly:

If I had to guess bubbles, I'd say it was the guy that gets the flags.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...97600332fRndbR

0wned!!!!!!!!!

John Cairns


International?
Who else was there?


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Well, you know, just the Canadians. Not much to brag about.

John Cairns


OK, I'll back down then :-)


Did I tell you about the 15' skiff International Championship I
happened upon?
8 boats, all from the same sailing club, 4 were regulars, of which 3
were actually capable sailors. The rest were worse than terrible.

I made my thought very clear to their OOD and race management.
Ya see we have rules here about just what you can call State, National
and International Championships and they hardly even managed to call
themselves a class.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

We are on the border, so we do get a fair # of guys from the other side that
race in our events and vice versa. Have a nice race at the end of the year
down to one of the clubs in Ontario about 30 nm away, then two races on
Sunday. Labor Day weekend, really nice folks, good party, good racing. The
only problem we've had was a Melges 24 that showed up for one of our races,
said his rating was 96.Only problem, we had a Melges 24 in our class at Bay
Week with a rating of 81. 15 seconds per mile is a big difference,
especially in a distance race. I think they ended up with our US rating.

http://www.cedarislandyachtclub.com/

John Cairns

The PHRF Flaw-It demonstrates my lack of skill
 

If I had to guess bubbles, I'd say it was the guy that gets the flags.




Woweee! I just got finished telling everyone that my friend wins with
her Catalina 30 owned ONE SEASON. Thanks for making the point. Every
racer I know laughs at PHRF because the crappy boats generally have the
advantage. A Catalina 28 is a turd...and not a very intelligent turd to
buy as turds go!

RB
35s5....a boat that would literally sail circles around any Catalina
28!
NY

The PHRF Flaw-It demonstrates my lack of skill
 

Capt. Rob wrote:

RB
35s5....a boat that circles turds like a starving vulture
28!
NY

The PHRF Flaw-It demonstrates my lack of skill
 

Capt. Rob wrote:

Woweee! I just got finished telling everyone that my friend wins with
her Catalina 30 owned ONE SEASON. Thanks for making the point. Every
racer I know laughs at PHRF because the crappy boats generally have the
advantage. A Catalina 28 is a turd...and not a very intelligent turd to
buy as turds go!

RB
35s5....a boat that would literally sail circles around any Catalina
28!
NY


Bob, I'm very impressed that you appreciate this subtlety in PHRF.
Certain boats, especially modern designs, require extra skill to get
the most out of them. Further, boats that attract highly skilled
"professional" crews will have ratings the reflect their skills in all
aspects, such as spinnaker handling. The ratings will reflect this
since they tend to reflect the best use of a boat, not the average.
As a result, the average owner of a boat like a 35s5 will not be able
to sail to his rating, while a for less extreme design will be easier.

So how much of a "penalty" is this for the average sailor, with an
average crew. The minimum increment in PHRF is usually 3 seconds, but
only a fool would lose by a few seconds and then blame it on the
rating system. Clearly then the average benny sailor is, according to
Bob, going to sail perhaps 12 to 15 seconds slower than his rating.
For the 35s5 WK, this means the fairly low rating of 132 becomes in
practice 147 to 150. This puts the benny right in there with the
Catalina 36, slower than the Hunters. In fact, a quick scan of the
list shows that a variety of boats 36 feet or less have ratings under
150: Irwins, O'Days, Pearsons, Sabre's, Tartan's, etc.

Its nice to see that Bob realizes that although his boat may show
moments of speed, on average, its just another midsized daysailor, and
will frequently be passed by "crappy boats."

The PHRF Flaw-I demonstrates my lack of skill
 

the ericson 32 is a decent boat...it have a pretty favorable
rating?





" Same for the Ericson 32 my friends sail. In both cases they are
less experienced than some of the crews on faster boats that are
battling with ratings culled from professional crewed boats over the
years. "

The PHRF Flaw-It demonstrates my lack of skill
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
If I had to guess bubbles, I'd say it was the guy that gets the flags.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...97600332fRndbR

Bwahahahahahhahhahahhahhahahhahahahahhahahahaha

0wned!!!!!!!

Woweee! I just got finished telling everyone that my friend wins with
her Catalina 30 owned ONE SEASON.

Proof? Didn't think so.

RB
35s5....a boat that would literally sail circles around any Catalina
28! If I did any sailing, that is.
NY

When you can prove how fast your boat is, with you at the helm, post it up.
Like I said before, bubbles, the boat won't sail itself. The ratings mean
nothing. OTOH, your boat will impress the lubbers that you sail with.

John Cairns