Joe wrote:
Desertion is defining as leaving with "intent to remain away
permenantly"

True, it's also defined as leaving in order to avoid hazardous duty.

So, you're right... those who flee to Canada are guilty of desertion.

That does *not* make them guilty of treason.





(Article 85 UCMJ.) Since the intent is often difficult to prove, most
cases
are simply charged as Unauthorized Absence (Article 86 UCMJ).
Virtually all
Article 86 cases serious enough for court martial will go to a Special
Court
Martial where the maximum penalty is Confinement for 6 months,
reduction to pay
grade E-1, forfeiture of pay, and a Bad Conduct Discharge.


If Charged with Desertion, the case is usually heard at a General Court
Martial, where the Maximum punishment for Article 85 (IIRC) is 5 years
confinement and a Dishonorable Discharge.


** *** ** quote ** *** **
UCMJ article 85 (c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to
desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by
death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the
desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such
punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.
** *** ** quote ** *** **

It is proclaimed daily that we're at war. You've made that claim
yourself, including stating that IYHO torture is justified because of
the despicable nature of the enemy... as though the U.S. habitually (or
even occasionally) made war on perfectly reasonable & morally elevated
enemies... so do you think that deserters should be tortured, too? It
would certainly discourage further desertion!

You also have avoided answering the question, when are you going to
combat duty in Iraq? Or if you feel you're too old, how about sending
one or more of your kids?

Doug King

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:16:52 -0500, DSK wrote
this crap:

Thom Stewart wrote:
Doug,

Do you consider D. Arnold a traitor? He severed with distinction before
going against his Army Oath.


Do you mean Benedict Arnold?

Heck yes he is a traitor. Among other things, he was commissioned as a
general officer by the British after attempting to hand over West Point
(an important strategic fort at the time). You're right, before that he
served with great distinction... some would say he was the best American
general of the Revolutionary War.


You are incorrect, again. He was never given a command by the
British.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The British provided handsomely for Arnold, but never completely
trusted him. He was never given an important military command. They
moved to London where he found no job, some admiration and even some
contempt. He moved his family to Canada where he reentered the
shipping business. The Tories there disliked him and had no use for
him, and eventually he returned his family to London.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/served/arnold.html






This post is 100% free of steroids

Doug,

You are correct. Benedict Arnold was guilty of a traitorous act and
deserting to the enemy.

This bring into question the act of desertion in war time. Is it
treason? It is a question? I'm really not sure.

Ole Thom




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage

Horvath wrote:
You are incorrect, again. He was never given a command by the
British.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold

"Arnold was appointed brigadier beneral in the British Army and engaged
Continental forces on a few occasions. One significant battle occurred
on January 5, 1781 when Richmond, Virginia was burned by British naval
forces led by Arnold."

YMMV

DSK

I'm willing to bet that Horvath never apologizes or admits his error.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Horvath wrote:
You are incorrect, again. He was never given a command by the
British.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold

"Arnold was appointed brigadier beneral in the British Army and engaged
Continental forces on a few occasions. One significant battle occurred on
January 5, 1781 when Richmond, Virginia was burned by British naval forces
led by Arnold."

YMMV

DSK

Thom Stewart wrote:
Doug,

You are correct. Benedict Arnold was guilty of a traitorous act and
deserting to the enemy.

This bring into question the act of desertion in war time. Is it
treason? It is a question? I'm really not sure.


Obviously I don't have the *definitive* answer (where's Jax when you
need him?) but it seems to me that is a wider difference between
desertion & treason than there is between desertion & going AWOL.

Treason is the deliberate betrayal and causing of great harm...
generally as great as one can manage... such as concealing vital
military intel or lying about it, so as to bring about large numbers of
casualties.

Desertion during war time? Does it have to be a "declared" war? What
about a 'police action' which can of course be just as deadly?

DSK

He may have not comitted Treason. But he is a Traitor as well as a
deserter.

A man who cannot honor his word is worthless. Honor your word.

Show me where I said Torture is justified..

I said your and my defination of torture is different. I do not endorse
or support any torture.

You did not listen... I did my tour, I do not think I'm to old to do
another... but Uncle sam say I'm to old for our military at 43. If
there comes a time when Im needed I be the first in line Bucko. But I'm
trained as a Merchant Marine Master and the greatest thing I could do
for my country would be to Master a ship. Not to much need now in Iraq
for that. The point of the whole thread dunderhead ...was now even
Canada agrees these deserters are scum and not needed as citizens. That
they need to pay the fiddler.

No one wants any of their children to go to war bonehead, but many are
very proud that there children carry on.. and defend freedom. I hope
your parents were proud of your service.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
He may have not comitted Treason. But he is a Traitor as well as a
deserter.

A man who cannot honor his word is worthless. Honor your word.
No one wants any of their children to go to war bonehead, but many are
very proud that there children carry on.. and defend freedom. I hope
your parents were proud of your service.

Joe


So, by your own admission, bush jr. is worthless and a traitor? Funny that
the bush twins aren't serving their country proudly. Wonder why?

John Cairns

"John Cairns" wrote

Funny that
the bush twins aren't serving their country proudly. Wonder why?


You've got it all wrong. The country is serving the Bush twins --- at
bars all across this great land . . .

CN

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:17:22 -0500, DSK wrote
this crap:

Horvath wrote:
You are incorrect, again. He was never given a command by the
British.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold

"Arnold was appointed brigadier beneral in the British Army and engaged
Continental forces on a few occasions. One significant battle occurred
on January 5, 1781 when Richmond, Virginia was burned by British naval
forces led by Arnold."

YMMV

DSK


That's correct. Your pussy ass finally rises to a challenge.


I still spit on you.





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