WASHINGTON (AP) - Citing hopeful signs from Lebanon to Afghanistan (news -
web sites), President Bush (news - web sites) said Tuesday that democracy is
beginning to spread across the Middle East and that authoritarian rule is
"the last gasp of a discredited past." ......


BEIRUT (Reuters) - Hundreds of thousands of flag-waving Lebanese flooded
central Beirut Tuesday for a pro-Syrian rally called by Hizbollah that
dwarfed previous protests demanding that Syrian troops quit Lebanon.....
Nasrallah said no one in Lebanon feared the United States, whose troops left
Lebanon in 1984, a few months after a suicide bomber killed 241 Marines at
their Beirut headquarters. "We have defeated them in the past and if they
come again we will defeat them again," he said, drawing chants of "Death to
America" from the demonstrators. As the mainly Shi'ite Muslim crowds .....

God will punish those who bode ill toward the United States. Just as he
punished those idol worshipping Greeks and Romans with floods, tidal waves
and volcanoes, the people in the basin of what is now the Black Sea with a
great flood, he will punish the Lebanese and Syrians with cataclysm of
Biblical proportional!

Amen!

Bob Crantz
"Vito" wrote in message
...
WASHINGTON (AP) - Citing hopeful signs from Lebanon to Afghanistan (news -
web sites), President Bush (news - web sites) said Tuesday that democracy
is
beginning to spread across the Middle East and that authoritarian rule is
"the last gasp of a discredited past." ......


BEIRUT (Reuters) - Hundreds of thousands of flag-waving Lebanese flooded
central Beirut Tuesday for a pro-Syrian rally called by Hizbollah that
dwarfed previous protests demanding that Syrian troops quit Lebanon.....
Nasrallah said no one in Lebanon feared the United States, whose troops
left
Lebanon in 1984, a few months after a suicide bomber killed 241 Marines at
their Beirut headquarters. "We have defeated them in the past and if they
come again we will defeat them again," he said, drawing chants of "Death
to
America" from the demonstrators. As the mainly Shi'ite Muslim crowds .....

Well, Bush is a liar...

In article ,
Vito wrote:
WASHINGTON (AP) - Citing hopeful signs from Lebanon to Afghanistan (news -
web sites), President Bush (news - web sites) said Tuesday that democracy is
beginning to spread across the Middle East and that authoritarian rule is
"the last gasp of a discredited past." ......


BEIRUT (Reuters) - Hundreds of thousands of flag-waving Lebanese flooded
central Beirut Tuesday for a pro-Syrian rally called by Hizbollah that
dwarfed previous protests demanding that Syrian troops quit Lebanon.....
Nasrallah said no one in Lebanon feared the United States, whose troops left
Lebanon in 1984, a few months after a suicide bomber killed 241 Marines at
their Beirut headquarters. "We have defeated them in the past and if they
come again we will defeat them again," he said, drawing chants of "Death to
America" from the demonstrators. As the mainly Shi'ite Muslim crowds .....


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Bob Crantz wrote:
God will punish those who bode ill toward the United States. Just as
he
punished those idol worshipping Greeks and Romans with floods, tidal
waves
and volcanoes, the people in the basin of what is now the Black Sea
with a
great flood, he will punish the Lebanese and Syrians with cataclysm
of
Biblical proportional!

Amen!

Bob Crantz
snip

Sorry, Bob, no Black sea Flood.

Altogether too many people have the mistaken idea
that a catastrophic flood in the Black Sea was
the inspiration for the Noah's Flood story in the Bible.
The TV programs on that topic are outdated and overly
sensational and can be safely ignored.
Sadly, you and maybe millions of other people
have been misled on this subject.

Alas, there was no "Noachian" Black Sea Flood, and
the science in William Ryan's and Walter Pitman's book
"Noah's Flood: the event that changed history" has in
several cases been superceded by better information that
indicates that there was no such event, and was in most
cases preceded by evidence that indicated that there was
no such event.
Ryan and Pitman set out to overturn the orthodox view of
the history of the Black Sea, but they have apparently
abandoned their hypothesis, if more recent articles
co-authored by Ryan are any indication.
The orthodox view has prevailed, subject to some recent
minor modifications.

There is evidence that there was an outflow southward
from the Black Sea through the Bosphorus into the Mediterranean
from more than 10000 years ago
(well before Ryan and Pitman's initial 5600 BCE flood date),
continuously until the present day, though there may have been
a relatively short interruption.
And evidence from the south shore of the Black sea shows that
the level of the Black Sea was only 18 m below the present level
at the time of the supposed flood.
The more recent claim by Ryan puts the flood date at 8400 BP,
or about 9000 years ago, but then the "floodwaters" through the
Bosphorus channel would have been only about 5 metres deep.
9000 years ago is when everybody else always thought that
Mediterranean sal****er first entered the Black Sea. At about
that time, the last phase of Glacial Lake Agassiz, in central
Canada, finally found an outlet to the sea through or under the
remnants of the Laurentide Ice Sheet, and so out into the North
Atlantic, raising sea level an appreciable amount, and perhaps
triggering a sudden inflow of sal****er into the Black Sea basin.
But probably not sudden or great enough to inspire a Noachian
Flood myth.
Better candidates are widespread inundation of low-lying parts
of the Persian Gulf associated with the final draining of Glacial
Lake Agassiz, and similar flooding of the Tigris-Euphrates delta,
and (most likely) simultaneous flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates,
which would have looked like a flooding of the entire world from
the viewpoint of a person near present-day Baghdad. These candidates
could each or all have inspired the flood myth in the epic of
Gilgamesh, which predates the first known appearance of the Noachian
Flood myth.

Check this out, for a layman-friendly synopsis of the refutation:

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/bseaflod.htm

On the draining of Glacial Lake Agassiz:

http://cgrg.geog.uvic.ca/abstracts/P...nceDuring.html

And here's a fairly recent news item on refutation of Ryan's
and Pitman's hypothesis:

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/4949335.htm

BEGIN QUOTE
January 14, 2003

Scientists are seriously challenging a recent, fascinating proposal
that Noah's epic story -- setting sail with an ark jam-full of animal
couples -- was based on an actual catastrophic flood that suddenly
filled the Black Sea 7,500 years ago, forcing people to flee.

In a detailed new look at the rocks, sediments, currents and seashells
in and around the Black Sea, an international research team pooh-poohs
the Noah flood idea, arguing that all the geologic, hydrologic and
biologic signs are wrong.

Little that the earth can tell us seems to fit the Noah story, they
say. The new research takes direct aim at the work of two Columbia
University geologists -- William Ryan and Walter Pitman -- whose
proposal in 1997 ignited much new interest, and much new research,
into Middle East history and geology.

END QUOTE

Also, Ballard did not find Noah's House, and he has recently
admitted that he didn't find any evidence of human occupation
of the Black Sea continental shelf, let alone any support for
the BSFlood hypothesis.
Here is another recent news article telling you about that
(please be warned that several statements in the article
are erroneous, e.g.
"Scholars agree the Black Sea flooded when
rising world sea levels caused the Mediterranean to
burst over land and fill the then-freshwater lake."):

"Black Sea Trip Yields No Flood Conclusions"

http://www.puresupply.com/newap/D8458SGG3.html

There was no actual ruined building found by Ballard, but
rather just a partly rectangular outline of raised bed
on the continental shelf, that might even be
the outline of
the wheelhouse of a modern freighter.
To the northwest the outline continues, and narrows to a point.
To the southeast, the outline continues for a shorter distance,
and ends in a rounded curve.
Just what you'd expect when a sunken ship's hull is covered with
sediment.
The wood didn't necessarily contaminate the site, it might have
been part of the ship, and so accurately dates the site.
The roughly-worked stones could have been the ship's ballast.

If you wish, I can supply links to the writeups on Ballard's finds
in professional journals.

And here are a couple of scientific papers:

G r r, N., Cagatay, N., Emre, ., Alpar, B., Sakinc, M., Islamoglu,
Y., Algan, O., Erkal, T., Kecer, M., Akk k, R. & Karlik, G. (2001)
"Is the abrupt drowning of the Black Sea shelf at 7150 yr BP a myth?"
Marine Geology 176: 65-73

http://202.120.13.78/cgi-bin/sciserv...ls&journal=002

53227&issue=v176i1-4&article=65 itadotssa7am&form=pdf&file=file.pdf

"Persistent Holocene Outflow from the Black Sea to the Eastern
Mediterranean Contradicts Noah's Flood Hypothesis"

http://www.geosociety.org/pubs/gsatoday/toc0205.htm

And there's lots more, but you'd need access to scientific journals
to read it, but you could ask me for more details if you want them.
Some of the articles are available on the Web.

Sorry to splash water in the frying pan,
Daryl Krupa