Heck, Max and I both sat out 100 mph straight line winds on the same dock
one spring...was no picnic but we did it...I imagine most people who really
sail have sat out some kind of storm event one way or the other...

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 05:20:05 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:26:36 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message

Bloody hard to move a house Cappy!

Not really. Andrew did just fine in that regard.

Max


Yeah, and Cappy just "rode it out".

It was significantly attenuated where he was.

Max


Yep, but he still brags about sitting at anchor in 45kts of hurricane.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

That's not the case, from my observations. Given two equally prepped
pieces of wood, the Cetol will outlast varnish by about 10% at most, and
require about 10% less work to maintain.


Maxprop wrote:
The biggest difference between the two that I've found is the technique and
care required during application. I'm good with a brush, but it still takes
me far longer and with far more care to apply a coat of varnish vs. Cetol.

Maybe I'm getting to be a fussy old fogey, but it seems totally natural
to me to be careful like that. Modern varnishes (at least the
high-dollar stuff) is nowhere near as temperamental as the old time spar
varnish I remember.

My wife uses foam brushes... still have to be careful about bubbles, but
it's pretty quick and easy. I'm wavering on the foam brush thing, it
seems sinful to me.

.... And weather is another factor. I've applied
Cetol in 45 degrees and wind, and also in 90 degrees and humidity, both with
acceptable results. Varnish requires a narrower set of parameters if the
finish coat is to have a smooth, glasslike appearance.

That's very true. Especially dust & humidity.

... Then of course there
is the issue of sanding between coats. Cetol requires none as it bonds
chemically to itself, but varnish requires a mechanical bond between coats,
so sanding is obligatory.

Actually (depending on the varnish you use) it's not. All sanding does
is produce a lot of dust and require cleanup. The pro we had going over
our brightwork originally gave us a lot of pointers on this. He said
that most people sand way too much and don't clean up after well enough.
Bristol and Epifanes both make a good high-build high-UV-resistant
finish that isn't supposed to be sanded between coats, once the surface
is good.





The new clear stuff doesn't look as bad as the old orange Jell-O Cetol,
but it still doesn't look good up close.


I honestly can't tell much difference between the two.


Maybe you haven't looked well enough. Up close, the difference is
obvious. From ten feet away, it's not obvious but visible.

If a boat with really sharp varnished brightwork parked next to you,
people would say "Boy that Sea Sprite sure is a pretty boat, what a dang
shame about the woodwork."


If the wood has pretty enough grain to be worth any type of bright finish,
it deserves varnish IMHO.


Have you ever tried Epifanes Gloss Wood Finish?


Yep. I'm not positive but IIRC that's what's on the tugboat right now.


BTW we had a professional do some of the wood on our boat when we first
bought it, the former owner had slapped on a terrible coating of
polyurethane. He also takes care of a number of boats with Cetol and he
swears the stuff is actually more work than varnish.


I've heard that before, and don't believe it for a moment.


Well, this guy makes a pretty good living at it and knows a lot more
than I do... I can't believe somebody would pay money for a pro job and
want Cetol but apparently a lot do (including two in our marina).


... Perhaps when we retire to Oriental, we'll reconsider varnish for
the brightwork.


That part of NC (around New Bern as well) is getting to be worse than
Florida. They're four-laning the highway to Oriental, so that the
blue-hairs will have an easier time. But hey, there's plenty of room for
more!


We noted the road work when we were there last year. Not too many bluehairs
when we were there, but no doubt they'll come. They always do.

They're already there. That daily 3 truckloads of New York newspapers
and 2 truckloads of froo-froo coffee isn't for consumption by locals.
;)

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Maxprop wrote:
Another exception is the Graham & Schlageter-designed S2 35 CC. It was a
lower-volume center cockpit boat built on a racing hull, and it was
amazingly fast, especially downwind, but it wasn't beautiful. Nothing on
our part of Lake Michigan, short of a maxi, could outrun that beast.


I've heard of them, neer seen one in person. There were two S-2 9.2cc in
our marina, one owned by some good friends... both sailed pretty
respectably even if they weren't center cockpit boats. I like S-2 boats.

DSK

Scot,

Temp got up to 62' yesterday, on the boat. Dog and I got in a evening
sail. Did come home in the dark and on the motor but first evening sail
of '05.

Temp in the back yard 40 deg at 6:15 AM very foggy. Have a lunch
appointment so it really doesn't matter.

Maybe another short sail this evening without dog. I'm sure she won't
mind :^)

Ole Thom




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage

Katy & Joe;

It was in a Storm such as is blewing in Oz's land, that all but ruined
"Bull" Halsey reputation when he took the fleet to sea off Japan. They
took a hell of a pounding.

Ole Thom

Consider yourself fortunate, and appreciate it.

SV


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Scot,

Temp got up to 62' yesterday, on the boat. Dog and I got in a
evening
sail. Did come home in the dark and on the motor but first evening
sail
of '05.

Temp in the back yard 40 deg at 6:15 AM very foggy. Have a lunch
appointment so it really doesn't matter.

Maybe another short sail this evening without dog. I'm sure she
won't
mind :^)

Ole Thom




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage

Yeah...ditto...we're 20 degrees lower than the average for the whole month
and it's snowing and icing again...I guess the ski resorts will be happy
with all the spring skiing but it sure is playing havoc with the rest of us
who want to get on with it....dang Canadian clippers...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Consider yourself fortunate, and appreciate it.

SV


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Scot,

Temp got up to 62' yesterday, on the boat. Dog and I got in a
evening
sail. Did come home in the dark and on the motor but first evening
sail
of '05.

Temp in the back yard 40 deg at 6:15 AM very foggy. Have a lunch
appointment so it really doesn't matter.

Maybe another short sail this evening without dog. I'm sure she
won't
mind :^)

Ole Thom




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage

Guess they should have been sailing Crapanado 27's...

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Katy & Joe;

It was in a Storm such as is blewing in Oz's land, that all but ruined
"Bull" Halsey reputation when he took the fleet to sea off Japan. They
took a hell of a pounding.

Ole Thom

"DSK" wrote in message

Maxprop wrote:
Another exception is the Graham & Schlageter-designed S2 35 CC. It was a
lower-volume center cockpit boat built on a racing hull, and it was
amazingly fast, especially downwind, but it wasn't beautiful. Nothing on
our part of Lake Michigan, short of a maxi, could outrun that beast.


I've heard of them, neer seen one in person. There were two S-2 9.2cc in
our marina, one owned by some good friends... both sailed pretty
respectably even if they weren't center cockpit boats. I like S-2 boats.

S2s were built up here in Holland, Michigan. The owner of the company was a
gent named Leon Slikkers, a displaced Dutchman, who started out building
Slikcraft powerboats, then sold his company to AMF, and was barred from
building powerboats for a period of ten years by the sale contract. So he
built sailboats, and some of the early S2s were among the ugliest, worst
performing pieces of high quality junk ever produced. He was a quick study,
however, and hired Graham and Schlageter to design his line of
cruiser/racers, and Arthur Edmonds (I think) to design the cruisers. The
results were exceptionally well-built boats with lots of upgrade features.
And they were good sailing machines. The G&S designed 35' CC was one of his
last sailing designs, and it was too bad it wasn't expanded upon into larger
boats. They were deceptively fast and beautifully constructed, if not
particularly beautiful aesthetically. Slikkers is back building powerboats
(Tiara), but he claims he'll build a fleet of 6 or 7 7.9 Grand Slam racers
if someone will give him an order and 50% down. Yeah, sure.

Max

Too bad they're making Tiara's now...what a comedown....but Max is right
about that S-2...that thing was FAST....smokin fast....BTW, Max, who ended
up buying her and where did she go?


"Maxprop" wrote in message
. net...

"DSK" wrote in message

Maxprop wrote:
Another exception is the Graham & Schlageter-designed S2 35 CC. It was
a lower-volume center cockpit boat built on a racing hull, and it was
amazingly fast, especially downwind, but it wasn't beautiful. Nothing
on our part of Lake Michigan, short of a maxi, could outrun that beast.


I've heard of them, neer seen one in person. There were two S-2 9.2cc in
our marina, one owned by some good friends... both sailed pretty
respectably even if they weren't center cockpit boats. I like S-2 boats.

S2s were built up here in Holland, Michigan. The owner of the company was
a gent named Leon Slikkers, a displaced Dutchman, who started out building
Slikcraft powerboats, then sold his company to AMF, and was barred from
building powerboats for a period of ten years by the sale contract. So he
built sailboats, and some of the early S2s were among the ugliest, worst
performing pieces of high quality junk ever produced. He was a quick
study, however, and hired Graham and Schlageter to design his line of
cruiser/racers, and Arthur Edmonds (I think) to design the cruisers. The
results were exceptionally well-built boats with lots of upgrade features.
And they were good sailing machines. The G&S designed 35' CC was one of
his last sailing designs, and it was too bad it wasn't expanded upon into
larger boats. They were deceptively fast and beautifully constructed, if
not particularly beautiful aesthetically. Slikkers is back building
powerboats (Tiara), but he claims he'll build a fleet of 6 or 7 7.9 Grand
Slam racers if someone will give him an order and 50% down. Yeah, sure.

Max

"DSK" wrote in message

My wife uses foam brushes... still have to be careful about bubbles, but
it's pretty quick and easy. I'm wavering on the foam brush thing, it seems
sinful to me.

Ah, yes, a Becky Wittman convert. I like the foam brushes, too, as does my
wife. That said, I bought a set of badger bristle brushes, three round and
two straight, this past summer. And I love 'em for varnish. The round ones
are unbeatable for getting into nooks and crannies, or along moldings.

... Then of course there is the issue of sanding between coats. Cetol
requires none as it bonds chemically to itself, but varnish requires a
mechanical bond between coats, so sanding is obligatory.

Actually (depending on the varnish you use) it's not. All sanding does is
produce a lot of dust and require cleanup. The pro we had going over our
brightwork originally gave us a lot of pointers on this. He said that most
people sand way too much and don't clean up after well enough. Bristol and
Epifanes both make a good high-build high-UV-resistant finish that isn't
supposed to be sanded between coats, once the surface is good.

Yeah, that would be Epifanes Gloss Wood Finish, of which I've been extoling
the virtues to Capt. Mooron. I love that stuff, mostly because it builds
much faster than straight long-oil varnish, and it's completely compatible
with varnish. I've never tried Bristol Finish, but some of the folks on our
dock swear by it.

If a boat with really sharp varnished brightwork parked next to you,
people would say "Boy that Sea Sprite sure is a pretty boat, what a dang
shame about the woodwork."

People who truly know brightwork would, indeed, but the average Joe on the
dock says, "Wow, that woodwork sure is gorgeous, but I'd never want that
much wood on my boat." Or something similar.

Have you ever tried Epifanes Gloss Wood Finish?


Yep. I'm not positive but IIRC that's what's on the tugboat right now.

The Epifanes rep I spoke with at the Woodenboat Show told me he uses it
exclusively now. He hasn't opened a can of his company's varnish in over
three years. The stuff builds exceptionally well, and levels nicely.


I've heard that before, and don't believe it for a moment.


Well, this guy makes a pretty good living at it and knows a lot more than
I do... I can't believe somebody would pay money for a pro job and want
Cetol but apparently a lot do (including two in our marina).

That would surprise me as well. We've got some pros (independent
contractors--not part of the marina staff) who do brightwork locally, and
while they don't hate Cetol, they do a lot of arm twisting to convince their
clients to use varnish. One of them, a friend, did the transom of a Grand
Banks 42 this past winter and it is absolutely beyond belief. Looks like
glass over perfectly-sanded teak.

We noted the road work when we were there last year. Not too many
bluehairs when we were there, but no doubt they'll come. They always do.

They're already there. That daily 3 truckloads of New York newspapers and
2 truckloads of froo-froo coffee isn't for consumption by locals.
;)

We noticed a surplus of New Yorkers when we were then in Dec. '03. Everyone
seemed pretty laid back, though, and we're looking forward to being down
there some day.

Max

"katysails" wrote in message

Too bad they're making Tiara's now...what a comedown....but Max is right
about that S-2...that thing was FAST....smokin fast....BTW, Max, who ended
up buying her and where did she go?

We were planning to buy Last Dance, but the owners wouldn't part with her
until they'd secured their next boat. We found Clover in the meantime, so
when they came up with their new Hunter 410, their buyer was "gone."
Ultimately I think the boat was sold to a broker on the other side of the
pond. What's amusing is that their Hunter is as slow as LD was fast
downwind. We leave Senior Prom far behind with Clover, and I'm sure LD
would have left us in its wake. To weather is another story: that Hunter
moves upwind.

As for Tiaras, they're about as fine a power yacht as is built today.
Typical for Slikkers.

Max