Global Challenge.
 

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:54:30 +1100, OzOne wrote this crap:


Should be a fun evening.
We're off to the Global Challenge prize giving dinner at Sydneys Star
City Casino this evening.


What job do you have? waiter? bartender? coat-check girl?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

OzOne wrote:
Should be a fun evening.
We're off to the Global Challenge prize giving dinner at Sydneys Star
City Casino this evening.

It will be interesting chatting with the amateurs who have taken the
challenge and the leggers who are preparing to sail the
Sydney/CapeTown leg starting Sunday.


That does sound like an interesting dinner. Is Chay Blythe going to be
there himself? Does the Global Challenge group solicit donations to keep
the project going or do the paying passengers bring in enough to keep it
floating? I was pretty surprised they raised enough money to build those
boats and managed to keep it going this long. It's an outstanding ocean
racing event and seems to be under the radar of most of the sailing press.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

OzOne wrote:
Yep, Chay was there, big as ever!
He presented the trophy to the winners of the NZ/Syd leg.

Had a scotch with him and chatted about the Challenge.

OK, now I'm officially envious. That sounds very cool.

Sponsors for each boat pretty much cover costs and paying crew cover
theirs and the cost of paid crew.
Of course Challenge get their cut.
5-8000 English pound for each leg and crew of 18 on each yacht, so
they do alright.


I used to make fun of people who would pay to go on an "adventure" like
that, such as those guided tours of Mt Everest... but it really is a
good idea for many people. They might have a great desire for the
experience, but not the skills or the time to acquire the skills (since
they've been too busy making money!). So it supports the boats (and
they're cool boats even if they are steel) and supports the skippers
(who need a job too, after all) who have gained the skills.

It just kind of surprised me that the whole thing could be turned into a
profitable enterprise. "Let's get people to pay enormous sums to be
seasick & miserable & stay up on night watches while bashing their way
around the world the wrong way." Yep, sounds like a great business plan!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Steel is the way to go Doug. If you want a cool boat that will finish
what it starts the best material is steel.

I suspect my vessel was custim built for the Whitbread race.

Joe
Oh the Power of Steel

Joe wrote:
I suspect my vessel was custim built for the Whitbread race.


You're high on cheap drugs

DSK

Doug,

Your usually above such cheap BB like responses.

I've raced RedCloud agains another English Ketch that looks very much
like RedCloud. It was built for the Whitbread. The owner sailed
redcloud and after I explained the original layout below he suspected
RedCloud was a Whitbred built boat as well.

So...what makes you reply to my post in such a flaming manner? What
makes you think RedCloud could not contend?

Joe

Joe wrote:
Your usually above such cheap BB like responses.


Thank you for the compliment

I've raced RedCloud agains another English Ketch that looks very much
like RedCloud. It was built for the Whitbread. The owner sailed
redcloud and after I explained the original layout below he suspected
RedCloud was a Whitbred built boat as well.


Do you mean "built for the Whitbread Round-the-World race" or "built in
Whitbread" (which is a place)?

So...what makes you reply to my post in such a flaming manner? What
makes you think RedCloud could not contend?


Because hard chine pilothouse ketches with tabernacle masts are not
built for racing. And it's not big enough, a Whitbread race boat would
be 60'+.

What's your PHRF rating again?

DSK

The pilot house roof was added by me. The boat is quite sporty with it
removed. And that only involves removing 8 1/2" SS bolts.

The tabernacle system is no diffrent than any other deck mounted rig.
And most likely stronger than a keel mounted mast.

And yes I did mean the around the world race.

I have no ideal what my PHRF rating is.

Joe

Joe wrote:
The pilot house roof was added by me. The boat is quite sporty with it
removed. And that only involves removing 8 1/2" SS bolts.


OK, I didn't know that. It's still got an aft cabin, right? An excellent
& popular feature for custom race boats ;)

The tabernacle system is no diffrent than any other deck mounted rig.
And most likely stronger than a keel mounted mast.


That may be the case, but boats custom built for racing don't have
tabernacle masts. Ease of lowering the mast is not even the tiniest
consideration for racing.

And yes I did mean the around the world race.


Maybe I shouldn't have just said "You're high on cheap drugs" with no
further explanation... wait a minute, I'm giving you further explanation
now...

The probability of your boat having been designed & built for the
Whitbread race is about the same as the probability of a green & purple
polka-dotted monkey flying out of my nose, playing 'Stairway To Heaven'
on a banjo. Is that better than "You're high on cheap drugs"?

I have no ideal what my PHRF rating is.


I though you raced in the Harvest Moon regatta... isn't that under PHRF?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Big deal. A bunch of pompous rich fools trying to buy their
way around the world because they are too timid to attempt
doing it on their own.

Wussies!

CN


OzOne wrote in message ...

Should be a fun evening.
We're off to the Global Challenge prize giving dinner at Sydneys Star
City Casino this evening.

It will be interesting chatting with the amateurs who have taken the
challenge and the leggers who are preparing to sail the
Sydney/CapeTown leg starting Sunday.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

DSK wrote:


I though you raced in the Harvest Moon regatta... isn't that under
PHRF?


Yeah, but I dont remember what my PHRF was and could care less.
Not to important, we placed in the top 3 in our class of similar boats.
I was more into shaking down redcloud than any other
objective...besides skunking my Neighbors Ketch every year.

How do you figure PHRF and what is it?

Joe

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I though you raced in the Harvest Moon regatta... isn't that under
PHRF?


Joe wrote:
Yeah, but I dont remember what my PHRF was and could care less.

Wotsamatta Joe, don't you want to tell us what your PHRF rating is?
Afraid to admit that it's actually higher than Boobsprit's?


Not to important, we placed in the top 3 in our class of similar boats.

Uh huh. And since the results are determined by handicap, ie your PHRF
rating, without knowing what the relative numbers are, this tells nothing.

I was more into shaking down redcloud than any other
objective...besides skunking my Neighbors Ketch every year.


Why? What did he do to you?

How do you figure PHRF and what is it?


There are several formulas to approximate your PHRF rating given the
boat's specs, but the rating itself is assigned by other sailors... and
adjusted to fit your boat's actual performance... that's why it's "PHRF"
or "P"erformance "H"andicap "R"ated "F"leet. If you win a lot because
your boat is much faster than they figured, they bump it a little bit to
give the others a chance, or vice versa.

If you ever had a PHRF rating, then you had to be given a rating
certificate. Getting a rating for a custom boat is a little more
involved than for a standard production boat, if you ever got one you'd
probably remember it.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I though you raced in the Harvest Moon regatta... isn't that under
PHRF?

Joe wrote:
Yeah, but I dont remember what my PHRF was and could care less.



Wotsamatta Joe, don't you want to tell us what your PHRF rating is?
Afraid to admit that it's actually higher than Boobsprit's?

Honest Doug Id tell you if I knew.


Not to important, we placed in the top 3 in our class of similar
boats.


Uh huh. And since the results are determined by handicap, ie your PHRF
rating, without knowing what the relative numbers are, this tells
nothing.



I was more into shaking down redcloud than any other
objective...besides skunking my Neighbors Ketch every year.


Why? What did he do to you?


Nothing. He had a fine well built expensive blue water Ketch named the
Lone Star Love. Same size as RedCloud. He was quite proffesional had a
well honed and trained crew. I like racing against a boat that I
consider a challenge.

We won the race's, he caught the biggest King.

How do you figure PHRF and what is it?


There are several formulas to approximate your PHRF rating given the
boat's specs, but the rating itself is assigned by other sailors... and

adjusted to fit your boat's actual performance... that's why it's
"PHRF"
or "P"erformance "H"andicap "R"ated "F"leet. If you win a lot because
your boat is much faster than they figured, they bump it a little bit
to
give the others a chance, or vice versa.

If you ever had a PHRF rating, then you had to be given a rating
certificate. Getting a rating for a custom boat is a little more
involved than for a standard production boat, if you ever got one you'd

probably remember it.

I dont remember, the race is for fun... all the money goes to
charity... and the party was sponsered by barcarddi.


Since Im not planing to race anymore it don't really matter. I may
cruise down for the party.. but racing is not as enjoyable as cruising.
50 miles off Port Aransas has some of the bluest clearest fish filled
water in the world, and to race thru is just un-natural IMO.

If I race the harvest moon again it will be as crew on a 60 foot cat
out of baytown. Or bum a ride on a corsair

Something fast.

Joe

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Hi Joe
What year did you race the Harvest Moon Regatta?
JR

Joe wrote:
I though you raced in the Harvest Moon regatta... isn't that under
PHRF?


Joe wrote:

Yeah, but I dont remember what my PHRF was and could care less.




Wotsamatta Joe, don't you want to tell us what your PHRF rating is?
Afraid to admit that it's actually higher than Boobsprit's?

Honest Doug Id tell you if I knew.



Not to important, we placed in the top 3 in our class of similar

boats.


Uh huh. And since the results are determined by handicap, ie your PHRF
rating, without knowing what the relative numbers are, this tells
nothing.




I was more into shaking down redcloud than any other
objective...besides skunking my Neighbors Ketch every year.



Why? What did he do to you?


Nothing. He had a fine well built expensive blue water Ketch named the
Lone Star Love. Same size as RedCloud. He was quite proffesional had a
well honed and trained crew. I like racing against a boat that I
consider a challenge.

We won the race's, he caught the biggest King.


How do you figure PHRF and what is it?



There are several formulas to approximate your PHRF rating given the
boat's specs, but the rating itself is assigned by other sailors... and

adjusted to fit your boat's actual performance... that's why it's
"PHRF"
or "P"erformance "H"andicap "R"ated "F"leet. If you win a lot because
your boat is much faster than they figured, they bump it a little bit
to
give the others a chance, or vice versa.

If you ever had a PHRF rating, then you had to be given a rating
certificate. Getting a rating for a custom boat is a little more
involved than for a standard production boat, if you ever got one you'd

probably remember it.

I dont remember, the race is for fun... all the money goes to
charity... and the party was sponsered by barcarddi.


Since Im not planing to race anymore it don't really matter. I may
cruise down for the party.. but racing is not as enjoyable as cruising.
50 miles off Port Aransas has some of the bluest clearest fish filled
water in the world, and to race thru is just un-natural IMO.

If I race the harvest moon again it will be as crew on a 60 foot cat
out of baytown. Or bum a ride on a corsair

Something fast.

Joe

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Joe wrote:
I was more into shaking down redcloud than any other
objective...besides skunking my Neighbors Ketch every year.



Why? What did he do to you?


Nothing. He had a fine well built expensive blue water Ketch named the
Lone Star Love. Same size as RedCloud. He was quite proffesional had a
well honed and trained crew. I like racing against a boat that I
consider a challenge.

We won the race's, he caught the biggest King.


So you split the bet? ;)


... if you ever got one you'd
probably remember it.

I dont remember, the race is for fun... all the money goes to
charity... and the party was sponsered by barcarddi.


That could explain memory loss. It may be that if it's a pretty casual
race, they just jot down a number and don't bother you with details.



Since Im not planing to race anymore it don't really matter. I may
cruise down for the party.. but racing is not as enjoyable as cruising.

I disagree, although it depends of course on the people & the boat.
Plenty of sea room for both activities.

DSK

1999 2000 2001

Joe

Hi Joe
That race is 150 mile+ right? So if you finish in the allotted time
you have to move along at a pretty good pace.
JR

Joe wrote:

1999 2000 2001

Joe

On 24 Feb 2005 11:26:20 -0800, "Joe" wrote
this crap:


DSK wrote:


I though you raced in the Harvest Moon regatta... isn't that under
PHRF?


Yeah, but I dont remember what my PHRF was and could care less.
Not to important, we placed in the top 3 in our class of similar boats.
I was more into shaking down redcloud than any other
objective...besides skunking my Neighbors Ketch every year.


What was your "class of similiar boats?" (I spelled "similiar"
correctly.)

How do you figure PHRF and what is it?


Now everybody knows you're a ****head.






Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

And your a Jon sucking, big tittie bitch boy.

You can have your PHRF and stuff it up your arse.

Joe

Joe wrote:
And your a Jon sucking, big tittie bitch boy.

You can have your PHRF and stuff it up your arse.


C'mon Joe, don't talk that way to a fellow Bush/Cheney supporter!

DSK

I like the boats. Nice design. It is amazing he finds mid-life crisis
novices to pay him the big fees, when they could find cheaper ways
around the world.

When you consider the watches are only 1 hour long, it is light duty
watchkeeping.


"DSK" wrote

That does sound like an interesting dinner. Is Chay Blythe going to be
there himself? Does the Global Challenge group solicit donations to keep
the project going or do the paying passengers bring in enough to keep it
floating? I was pretty surprised they raised enough money to build those
boats and managed to keep it going this long. It's an outstanding ocean
racing event and seems to be under the radar of most of the sailing press.

Don't that have troble filling in spots for the people who bail out?

OzOne wrote

Sponsors for each boat pretty much cover costs and paying crew cover
theirs and the cost of paid crew.
Of course Challenge get their cut.
5-8000 English pound for each leg and crew of 18 on each yacht, so
they do alright.

Now that is worth repeating...


"DSK" wrote

The probability of your boat having been designed & built for the
Whitbread race is about the same as the probability of a green & purple
polka-dotted monkey flying out of my nose, playing 'Stairway To Heaven' on
a banjo.

The boats are very nice. I might consider being a skippper
depending on the pay. All you have to do is figure out how
to keep the crew busy, or sedated...

"Capt. Neal®" wrote

Big deal. A bunch of pompous rich fools trying to buy their
way around the world because they are too timid to attempt
doing it on their own.
Wussies!

OzOne wrote

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 "Bart Senior" wrote
I like the boats. Nice design. It is amazing he finds mid-life crisis
novices to pay him the big fees, when they could find cheaper ways
around the world.

Mid life crisis starts young these days in the US?

Most of the crews are from GB aren't they? These people are mostly
35-45 range are they not?

Tell me Bart, how would you go about racing around the world the wrong
way and saving dollars doing it?

I'd go the right way--downwind. And I wouldn't do it racing. I'm
not sure I'd call what Blythe is doing "racing".

There are lots of boats looking for crew. I'd start checking ads in
Latitude 38, and perhaps post one myself, find a boat and go. If
you want to race, then I'd recommend people starting with fleet racing.

When you consider the watches are only 1 hour long, it is light duty
watchkeeping.

Who told you that?
Helming is in one hour stints.

Correct. One hour stints at the helm.

What are the rest of them doing? Freezing while keeping watch?
Doing the occassional sail change? Of course these boats don't have
roller furling. The reason is they have got to find something for these
huge crews to do.

Can you tell me how you'd organise rest periods with one hour watches?

I wouldn't want such a big crew to start with. Big crews mean more
money for Chay Blythe. That is the purpose of big crews.

Depending on the size of the vessel, an optimal crew size would be
around six, five crew, including skipper, and a cook. 2 on 8 off,
with hands call on deck for sail changes. This gives plenty of crew
rest for a distant voyage. One person helming and standing watch.
If conditions were colder and rougher, pehaps 1 on and 4 off.

My understanding is Blythe takes people with relatively little experience.
The prinicipal qualification being--they have money.

If I was going to give advice to someone looking to make their life
more adventuresome, I tell them how to do it while keeping the bank
account intact. Or it they want to spend $35k+, these people could
buy a boat and at least be able to resell it at some point.

Why should sailing be expensive? It doesn't have to be. In fact
a do-it-your-sefler can find economical ways to live an
adventuresome life afloat.

I understand that some people need to be lead around like sheep.
I've also taught many students that are loners who find themselves at
a point in their life where they have worked hard and life feels like
it has passed them by to a certain extent--like Neal was saying in
the other thread. They search for meaning in life and need some
great adventure--just for something to talk about when they return
to the "real" world of work and business. Some turn to sailing, in
part to find a circle of friends to do things with. I think it is rooted
in loneliness.

I'll give Chay Blythe credit for giving these people a huge boost to
their self confidence. When you enter life and death situations, and
learn to rely on others while they rely on you, you do things you
might not otherwise do. It helps one find meaning in life. How could
it not? Offshore sailing like Dougs recent adventure has, I'm sure,
created crew bonds and memories for him that will last forever.

I think a more confident person could develop skills and set off
without guidance and handholding, and find even greater meaning
in the experience. What do you think?

Bart Senior

I could handle the skipper position. I'd do a better
job than Gary Jobson. All my crew would come back
alive. The question is would I want to. Probably not.
I would be a good team leader because I've done much
of this sort of work as a sailing instructor. I know how
to motivate people.

I don't want to denigrate the whole thing, but it is
obviously an event for inexperienced amateurs. I'm
sure the participants get a lot out of it--not necessarily
sailing skills.

This "race" is designed as "make work" for the crew,
while extracting the maximum amount of money out
of them for a phony race.

The race is phony because the crews are all novices,
and they don't win anything. It is more like an Outward
Bound experience. Even the losers win because they
have accomplished a circumnavigation! That is the
big carrot that Blythe offers his clients. If I was a
skipper, my goal would not be to win, but to complete
the event, without casualties, while making it extraordinary
for the clients.

I saw a TV special on this race. I looked it up online
and researched it a bit. I even posted on this subject
several years ago. The TV program was clear the
crew were not very experienced. Some had no
experience at all until they started prepping for the event.
Many had only very basic sailing skills on typically one
type of small boat.

I interviewed a Brit for that Valiant 37 delivery three years
ago. He had one of these "Legs" on his sailing resume. I
questioned him in detail about it. The rest of his resume
was pitiful. He was a nice guy, but his skills were weak.
He was not good at taking advantage of opportunities--he
bailed on the delivery. Contrast him with some other sailors
I know, like my friend Patty, that work double shifts to save
up time off for an ocean passage.

Why sedated? For the boring hours below while
pounding UPWIND for God's sake!

Bart


OzOne wrote
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 "Bart Senior" wrote:

The boats are very nice. I might consider being a skippper
depending on the pay. All you have to do is figure out how
to keep the crew busy, or sedated...


First you wouldn't qualify.
What is this crap about sedation and keeping busy?
This is a racing crew on an around the world race...they're busy
enough with running the yacht, navigating and weather routing.

When you consider the watches are only 1 hour long, it is light duty
watchkeeping.


OzOne wrote:
Who told you that?
Helming is in one hour stints.
Can you tell me how you'd organise rest periods with one hour watches?


1 hour watches would be crazy.

But I also think that 1 hour is too long on the helm. IMHO 20 to 30
minutes is about the most time anyone can really work hard at helming.

It may be that the 1 hour stints on the wheel are to keep the races more
even, so that no one boat can gain an advantage by having one particular
better helmsman.

DSK

I took a class a few years back with someone who had just completed
the Challenge. He was a hardy, middle aged man with considerable
coastal, and some ocean experience. He had recently traded in a Wall
Street career for boat deliveries, and having crewed on a few Capetown
to Annapolis runs he wanted to "take it to the next level."

I think the cost was about $45000 - a lot for most people, but not
that different from what many spend on a sabbatical. He did his
Yachtmaster training while they did the Challenge training. His wife
was with him in England, and met him at various ports of call.

I asked about how much of a "race" it was. He described it as a
"friendly competition." A few boats really wanted to win, others just
wanted to finish, but no one wanted to risk everything to gain a few
miles. As for the "ordeal factor," he said, "There's no way to go
6000 miles upwind in the Southern Ocean and not have it be an ordeal."

I described it as the experience of a lifetime.





OzOne wrote:
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:24:03 -0500, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote


On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 "Bart Senior" wrote

I like the boats. Nice design. It is amazing he finds mid-life crisis
novices to pay him the big fees, when they could find cheaper ways
around the world.

Mid life crisis starts young these days in the US?

Most of the crews are from GB aren't they? These people are mostly
35-45 range are they not?


Nope, you could go to the website and check the teams but I'm sure
you'll find that most are between 25 and 35.
Many are from GB because the training, interviews and assessments
require you to be in the UK for whole weeks at a time.


Tell me Bart, how would you go about racing around the world the wrong
way and saving dollars doing it?

I'd go the right way--downwind. And I wouldn't do it racing. I'm
not sure I'd call what Blythe is doing "racing".


That's the challenge, going the wrong way.
And I can asure you that they are racing, racing hard, and damaging
boats in the process at times.
What makes you think they're not racing? Because that finish each leg
within close proximity, like an hour between 1 and 4?
It's because the boats are the same, sails are made by the one
sailmaker and are identical..it's as close as you can get to one
design ocean racing...that's the beauty of it!

There are lots of boats looking for crew. I'd start checking ads in
Latitude 38, and perhaps post one myself, find a boat and go. If
you want to race, then I'd recommend people starting with fleet racing.


Bart, these people want to circumnavigate.
And with the qualified coach on board, they get more than enough miles
and experience to qualify for most tickets, except yachtmasters where
they need miles as the skipper.
Think of it as a 6month full time sail training course for some.

When you consider the watches are only 1 hour long, it is light duty
watchkeeping.

Who told you that?
Helming is in one hour stints.

Correct. One hour stints at the helm.


Yep, helm, not watch!

What are the rest of them doing? Freezing while keeping watch?


Freezing? Why? Think about the timing here, they're doing the southern
ocean in the warmest part og the southern summer...they do think about
these things Bart.

Doing the occassional sail change? Of course these boats don't have
roller furling. The reason is they have got to find something for these
huge crews to do.


Of course they don't have furlers, they are race boats and not
shorthanded!

Can you tell me how you'd organise rest periods with one hour watches?

I wouldn't want such a big crew to start with. Big crews mean more
money for Chay Blythe. That is the purpose of big crews.


No, the purpose is to make the journey fun, not exhausting.
How many passages have you made of say 6 days, shorthanded?
I can tell you its hard yakka!

Depending on the size of the vessel, an optimal crew size would be
around six, five crew, including skipper, and a cook. 2 on 8 off,
with hands call on deck for sail changes. This gives plenty of crew
rest for a distant voyage. One person helming and standing watch.
If conditions were colder and rougher, pehaps 1 on and 4 off.


Thayt my friend is absolute bull****!
These guys are sailing for 6 months, you try that on a 72' boat with 8
crew, most of whom are not ocean racers and you'll soon get the idea!

My understanding is Blythe takes people with relatively little experience.
The prinicipal qualification being--they have money.


They need money and a will to learn, a sense of adventure and a
toughness that is required for 35 days at sea in the souther ocean.

If I was going to give advice to someone looking to make their life
more adventuresome, I tell them how to do it while keeping the bank
account intact. Or it they want to spend $35k+, these people could
buy a boat and at least be able to resell it at some point.


Bart, these people are not ocean racers, think of the cost of owning a
yacht for all the years it takes for you to learn to sail, then build
up skill to the time that you can circumnavigate safely.
Jesus, for many, $35K wouldn't cover a years interest on the loan!

Why should sailing be expensive? It doesn't have to be. In fact
a do-it-your-sefler can find economical ways to live an
adventuresome life afloat.


You still don't get it, they don't want "an adventuresome life
afloat", they want to sail around the world safely, and for many,
learn to sail, for others, vastly improve their skills.
They have lives, careers and families to return to after the 6 months
of adventure..call it a sabattical if you like.

I understand that some people need to be lead around like sheep.
I've also taught many students that are loners who find themselves at
a point in their life where they have worked hard and life feels like
it has passed them by to a certain extent--like Neal was saying in
the other thread. They search for meaning in life and need some
great adventure--just for something to talk about when they return
to the "real" world of work and business. Some turn to sailing, in
part to find a circle of friends to do things with. I think it is rooted
in loneliness.


And many chose to jump into something that they'd never normally do,
to test themselves and develop from it.

I'll give Chay Blythe credit for giving these people a huge boost to
their self confidence. When you enter life and death situations, and
learn to rely on others while they rely on you, you do things you
might not otherwise do. It helps one find meaning in life. How could
it not? Offshore sailing like Dougs recent adventure has, I'm sure,
created crew bonds and memories for him that will last forever.


Ahhh, now you're starting to see the point.

I think a more confident person could develop skills and set off
without guidance and handholding, and find even greater meaning
in the experience. What do you think?


I think many of the most confident people in the world are smart
enough to rely on someone who knows what they are doing when they step
into something new.
People don't climb Everest because they want to live up there, they do
it to prove to themselves that they are capable of doing it..even
though most don't summit.
They take the best climbers they can find, and use locals with
intimate knowledge to make their climd as safe as possible.

Chay gives people that same opportunity, afloat.


Bart Senior





Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Bart Senior wrote:
Most of the crews are from GB aren't they?

Sure, but then it's a British enterprise.

... These people are mostly
35-45 range are they not?


Take a look at the web site. A lot of 20-30s in there, including women.
Some older, too.

It's expensive, you can't expect teenagers to pony up tens of thousands
of dollars to sail around the world.



Tell me Bart, how would you go about racing around the world the wrong
way and saving dollars doing it?


I'd go the right way--downwind.

Well, don't take offense but you're not Chay Blythe! Going upwind... the
"wrong way"... is a big part of the challenge of this event.


There are lots of boats looking for crew. I'd start checking ads in
Latitude 38, and perhaps post one myself, find a boat and go. If
you want to race, then I'd recommend people starting with fleet racing.


Sure... but this isn't intended as a beginner sailing/racing course, or
even as a beginner ocean sailing course; any more than the guided "Climb
Mt Everest For $50K (or whatever it costs)" are instructional.



What are the rest of them doing? Freezing while keeping watch?
Doing the occassional sail change?

Probably yes; from what I've seen at least the Challenge crews don't
have to huddle along the windward rail. If the boats are actively racing
then you need two trimmers (or trimmer & grinder) and this is a pretty
active role, as well as helming.




Can you tell me how you'd organise rest periods with one hour watches?


I wouldn't want such a big crew to start with. Big crews mean more
money for Chay Blythe. That is the purpose of big crews.


Of course. You say that like it's a bad thing. You're not turning
Socialist, are you Bart ;)

Depending on the size of the vessel, an optimal crew size would be
around six, five crew, including skipper, and a cook. 2 on 8 off,
with hands call on deck for sail changes. This gives plenty of crew
rest for a distant voyage. One person helming and standing watch.
If conditions were colder and rougher, pehaps 1 on and 4 off.


That would work well for voyaging but not racing IMHO; unless of course
the crew size is limited. All else being equal, more crew = faster.

My understanding is Blythe takes people with relatively little experience.
The prinicipal qualification being--they have money.


It's a capitalistic society. Having money is the main qualification for
almost anything!

Bus seriously, it sounds like your objection to Blythe's operation is
that it's not what you'd like... going the wrong way, charging money,
big crews, etc etc.

If I was going to give advice to someone looking to make their life
more adventuresome, I tell them how to do it while keeping the bank
account intact. Or it they want to spend $35k+, these people could
buy a boat and at least be able to resell it at some point.


But, by the time one bought a boat and equipped it for going around the
world and then acquired the skills to do it oneself, one would have
spent far more in unrecoverable expenses... not to mention a lot more
time lost off work. Blythe's operation is a way for people to take up a
very demanding task... be shepherded through it (possibly even baby-sat,
at least a little bit)... and then take up their normal lives again. Is
that entirely a bad thing? It's certainly more efficient than expecting
all those people to buy their own boats.

Why should sailing be expensive? It doesn't have to be. In fact
a do-it-your-sefler can find economical ways to live an
adventuresome life afloat.


I definitely agree, but again: that's not the point of Blythe's enterprise.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote

Bart Senior wrote:

I'd go the right way--downwind.

Well, don't take offense but you're not Chay Blythe! Going upwind... the
"wrong way"... is a big part of the challenge of this event.

None taken. Still, the reason they sail upwind is because it is
safer sailing upwind than downwind.

Concentrating driving for one hour is hard work.

While sailing downwind driving, its real work keeping the
boat moving, pointed in the right direction, while trying
to surf. Upwind there is the danger of pinching or falling
below the groove. If you have some skills, driving a boat
like this can be done fairly well. Novices would have an
easier time sailing upwind than downwind.

Driving well is how a boat gets separation from the fleet.
In my opinion driving upwind well creates the biggest gains
on a race course.

In any case, I agree, rotating the helmsmen evens out the
race. We can safely assume you have the same average
skill levels on each boat with a big crew like this.

Is there ANY other racing situation where this mulitple
driver, everyone drives concept is used in pro-racing?
No. It is more fun for the paying clients.

You can call it a race. But if so, it just barely qualifies.
Put a $1,000,000 purse on the outcome, and see how
the whole event would change. That's why I call it a
phony race, just a notch above a non-racing
circumnavigation--which it is better compared to.

I don't want to seem overly critical of the event. I still
think it is a substantial accomplishment to sail around
the world. Upwind obviously while safer, is harder
work.

And again, I like these boats. I think they are well
designed and built.

Bart

"DSK" wrote

It may be that the 1 hour stints on the wheel are to keep the races more
even, so that no one boat can gain an advantage by having one particular
better helmsman.

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:03:38 -0500, "Bart Senior"
wrote this crap:


None taken. Still, the reason they sail upwind is because it is
safer sailing upwind than downwind.


????? It is???

I usually sail downhill.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:32:26 -0500, "Bart Senior"
wrote this crap:

Concentrating driving for one hour is hard work.


I drive sveral hours each days.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Phhhht, amateur!


"Horvath" wrote


I drive sveral hours each days.

Concentrating driving for one hour is hard work.

yeah "Driving" a boat is not a science and those who approch it like a
science wear out quick. The trick IMO is to be one with the boat...to
enter the boat's zen. Then you can helm you boat like a lady. Moving
with her thru every curve..soft to the touch.. anticapiting her every
move and need.

The most often mistake I've seen time after time after time is someone
over working the helm...ie: driving the boat.

While sailing downwind driving, its real work keeping the
boat moving, pointed in the right direction, while trying
to surf. Upwind there is the danger of pinching or falling
below the groove. If you have some skills, driving a boat
like this can be done fairly well. Novices would have an
easier time sailing upwind than downwind.


Driving well is how a boat gets separation from the fleet.
In my opinion driving upwind well creates the biggest gains
on a race course.

IMO those who are in the groove help the boat find the path of least
resistance on any course, they give her helm what she needs before she
asks. They become unconsciously competent to the boats needs... top
that with a well balanced set of sails and leading a lady thru the
water is a pleasure... not a chore.

Joe

Well Put Joe...

CM

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Concentrating driving for one hour is hard work.

yeah "Driving" a boat is not a science and those who approch it like a
science wear out quick. The trick IMO is to be one with the boat...to
enter the boat's zen. Then you can helm you boat like a lady. Moving
with her thru every curve..soft to the touch.. anticapiting her every
move and need.

The most often mistake I've seen time after time after time is someone
over working the helm...ie: driving the boat.

While sailing downwind driving, its real work keeping the
boat moving, pointed in the right direction, while trying
to surf. Upwind there is the danger of pinching or falling
below the groove. If you have some skills, driving a boat
like this can be done fairly well. Novices would have an
easier time sailing upwind than downwind.


Driving well is how a boat gets separation from the fleet.
In my opinion driving upwind well creates the biggest gains
on a race course.

IMO those who are in the groove help the boat find the path of least
resistance on any course, they give her helm what she needs before she
asks. They become unconsciously competent to the boats needs... top
that with a well balanced set of sails and leading a lady thru the
water is a pleasure... not a chore.

Joe

All true, except one doesn't enter the boat's zen. The zen is the
combination of all the elements of the situation. One becomes part of that.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Concentrating driving for one hour is hard work.

yeah "Driving" a boat is not a science and those who approch it like a
science wear out quick. The trick IMO is to be one with the boat...to
enter the boat's zen. Then you can helm you boat like a lady. Moving
with her thru every curve..soft to the touch.. anticapiting her every
move and need.

The most often mistake I've seen time after time after time is someone
over working the helm...ie: driving the boat.

While sailing downwind driving, its real work keeping the
boat moving, pointed in the right direction, while trying
to surf. Upwind there is the danger of pinching or falling
below the groove. If you have some skills, driving a boat
like this can be done fairly well. Novices would have an
easier time sailing upwind than downwind.


Driving well is how a boat gets separation from the fleet.
In my opinion driving upwind well creates the biggest gains
on a race course.

IMO those who are in the groove help the boat find the path of least
resistance on any course, they give her helm what she needs before she
asks. They become unconsciously competent to the boats needs... top
that with a well balanced set of sails and leading a lady thru the
water is a pleasure... not a chore.

Joe

Interesting post.
There's an old adage ..... the best helmsman is the laziest guy on the boat.
Reason?
Generally he will figure out how to do the least amount of work to keep
the boat on course, realizing that if he keeps the boat on course, he
doesn't have to work ...... BG

otn



Joe wrote:
Concentrating driving for one hour is hard work.

yeah "Driving" a boat is not a science and those who approch it like a
science wear out quick. The trick IMO is to be one with the boat...to
enter the boat's zen. Then you can helm you boat like a lady. Moving
with her thru every curve..soft to the touch.. anticapiting her every
move and need.

The most often mistake I've seen time after time after time is someone
over working the helm...ie: driving the boat.

While sailing downwind driving, its real work keeping the
boat moving, pointed in the right direction, while trying
to surf. Upwind there is the danger of pinching or falling
below the groove. If you have some skills, driving a boat
like this can be done fairly well. Novices would have an
easier time sailing upwind than downwind.


Driving well is how a boat gets separation from the fleet.
In my opinion driving upwind well creates the biggest gains
on a race course.

IMO those who are in the groove help the boat find the path of least
resistance on any course, they give her helm what she needs before she
asks. They become unconsciously competent to the boats needs... top
that with a well balanced set of sails and leading a lady thru the
water is a pleasure... not a chore.

Joe

Ever hear of an autopilot? I rarely waste my time steering my boat.
The autopilot does it almost as well.

CN

"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...

Interesting post.
There's an old adage ..... the best helmsman is the laziest guy on the boat.
Reason?
Generally he will figure out how to do the least amount of work to keep
the boat on course, realizing that if he keeps the boat on course, he
doesn't have to work ...... BG

otn

G Think I've run across one or two vessel's with autopilot.
Problem is, an autopilot can only react, it can't anticipate.
Only a good helmsman can anticipate what a boat is going to do and react
first.
I've seen very few autopilots that can maintain a straight line on a course
recorder, for any length of time, whereas I 've seen a few helmsmen who
could.

otn

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...


Ever hear of an autopilot? I rarely waste my time steering my boat.
The autopilot does it almost as well.
CN

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
ink.net...

Interesting post.
There's an old adage ..... the best helmsman is the laziest guy on the
boat.
Reason?
Generally he will figure out how to do the least amount of work to keep
the boat on course, realizing that if he keeps the boat on course, he
doesn't have to work ...... BG

otn