INLAND

On the Western rivers, a vessel crossing a river must

A. only keep out of the way of a power driven vessel
descending the river
B. keep out of the way of any vessel descending the river
C. keep out of the way of power-driven veseel ascending
or descending the river
D. keep out of the way of any vessel ascending or descending
the river.

"Bart Senior" wrote in message ...
INLAND

On the Western rivers, a vessel crossing a river must

A. only keep out of the way of a power driven vessel
descending the river
B. keep out of the way of any vessel descending the river
C. keep out of the way of power-driven vessel ascending
or descending the river
D. keep out of the way of any vessel ascending or descending
the river.

C. is correct.

Bart, thanks for posting these questions. You've done this a number of
times and it's a great refresher, I wish it led to some at least
half-serious discussion.

Bart Senior wrote:
INLAND

On the Western rivers, a vessel crossing a river must

A. only keep out of the way of a power driven vessel
descending the river
B. keep out of the way of any vessel descending the river
C. keep out of the way of power-driven veseel ascending
or descending the river
D. keep out of the way of any vessel ascending or descending
the river.


I believe C sounds like the best answer, although it shouldn't really
matter whether the vessels are powered or not. Recreational traffic
gives way to commercial vessels and the days of poling longboats is long
long gone.

How about listing the cases on Western rivers where a vessel ascending
(against the current) gives way to a vessel descending (with the current)?

DSK

I don't know how much discussion there would be... perhaps if a rule makes
sense or not, but it is a great refresher.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Bart, thanks for posting these questions. You've done this a number of
times and it's a great refresher, I wish it led to some at least
half-serious discussion.

Bart Senior wrote:
INLAND

On the Western rivers, a vessel crossing a river must

A. only keep out of the way of a power driven vessel
descending the river
B. keep out of the way of any vessel descending the river
C. keep out of the way of power-driven veseel ascending
or descending the river
D. keep out of the way of any vessel ascending or descending
the river.

I believe C sounds like the best answer, although it shouldn't really
matter whether the vessels are powered or not. Recreational traffic gives
way to commercial vessels and the days of poling longboats is long long
gone.

How about listing the cases on Western rivers where a vessel ascending
(against the current) gives way to a vessel descending (with the current)?

DSK

If I ever kick off, Doug, I will pass the baton, pen or
whatever to you to continue the tradition of posting
questions.

Actually, I am posting these questions mostly for myself.
I've been studying this stuff for a long time. I first began
studying in 1991, took a serious stab at it in 1995, and
now that my boat is nearly ready for commerical duty
I'm looking at it again. I have had so many offers of
employment, both part and full time over the years, I
think I need to get off my butt and take the tests.

*****************

Have you seen the Set and Drift problems the USCG uses
on their Charting test?

I can rarely get "their" answer. They must use a computer
to mathematically calculate the result, because the thickness
of a pencil line, and errors with transfering the True Bearing
to the Compass Rose will throw you off nearly every time.
The points are close together and that decreases accuracy
also.

Set and Drift is one reason I've held off testing. For a long
time my confidence was shaken because I couldn't make
these problem work out, and didn't stop to consider I can
get all the other answers correct. The reason is the USCG
doesn't plot to find the solutions, they use mathematics.

I finally realized Set and Drift is only one question on the test.
My new strategy is to compare my Drift result with the closest
multiple choice answer and check the answer to be sure the
Set is going it approximately the same direction. If not I chose
the answer that most closely matched my calculated S&D.

Using this method, and picking the closest answer, I can
chose the closest answer and it will turn out to be correct
even if I can't imagine how anyone could arrive there
through plotting on a paper chart.

Think about what is involved in doing S&D mathematically?
You have to fudge the Longitude by the cosine of the
Latitude to model what you have on the chart. Then
process the DR track, convert that into a Lat/Long, and
then figure the distance, and calculate the angle. When I
get more time I think I'll do that for fun. I suppose it can
be done other ways mathematically using spherical
geometry--perhaps this is how the USCG calculates
the solutions..

Other people I know who have studied for the test,
simply skip that question completely, and focus on
the other problems, like ETA, speed-made-good,
etc. There are only 10 questions on charting and
only 7 needed to pass, so rather than spend hours
plotting Set and Drift, people skip it completely.

Bart

"DSK" wrote

Bart, thanks for posting these questions. You've done this a number of
times and it's a great refresher, I wish it led to some at least
half-serious discussion.

Bart Senior wrote:
If I ever kick off, Doug, I will pass the baton, pen or
whatever to you to continue the tradition of posting
questions.


Thank you, Bart.

Actually, I am posting these questions mostly for myself.
I've been studying this stuff for a long time. I first began
studying in 1991, took a serious stab at it in 1995, and
now that my boat is nearly ready for commerical duty
I'm looking at it again. I have had so many offers of
employment, both part and full time over the years, I
think I need to get off my butt and take the tests.


It's good to know the rules, and all the light signals, but I'm just not
interested in getting a license. It would ruin the fun. These questions
are a good way to learn and I really appreciate Jeff & Shen & Otn
posting their answers.



Have you seen the Set and Drift problems the USCG uses
on their Charting test?


Nope

I can rarely get "their" answer. They must use a computer
to mathematically calculate the result, because the thickness
of a pencil line, and errors with transfering the True Bearing
to the Compass Rose will throw you off nearly every time.
The points are close together and that decreases accuracy
also.


Is one of the questions about optimum LOP angles for plotting a fix?

Set and Drift is one reason I've held off testing. For a long
time my confidence was shaken because I couldn't make
these problem work out, and didn't stop to consider I can
get all the other answers correct. The reason is the USCG
doesn't plot to find the solutions, they use mathematics.


You can do that too. It's relatively simple trig; but it's kind of silly
to use that as a problem solving method when there's no need for that
kind of pinpoint accuracy, and it's never going to be achieved in the
real world anyway. What are they thinking?

I finally realized Set and Drift is only one question on the test.
My new strategy is to compare my Drift result with the closest
multiple choice answer and check the answer to be sure the
Set is going it approximately the same direction. If not I chose
the answer that most closely matched my calculated S&D.


That should work.

Using this method, and picking the closest answer, I can
chose the closest answer and it will turn out to be correct
even if I can't imagine how anyone could arrive there
through plotting on a paper chart.


Is there a book of sample problems you can try this on?

Think about what is involved in doing S&D mathematically?
You have to fudge the Longitude by the cosine of the
Latitude to model what you have on the chart. Then
process the DR track, convert that into a Lat/Long, and
then figure the distance, and calculate the angle. When I
get more time I think I'll do that for fun. I suppose it can
be done other ways mathematically using spherical
geometry--perhaps this is how the USCG calculates
the solutions..


Hmmm.... is the problem stated in Lat/Lon instead of course & speed?
That would make it a good bit more complicated. But I can't see the need
to do any set/drift calc'n using spherical eq'ns since the difference is
going to be *tiny* over pilotage distances.


Other people I know who have studied for the test,
simply skip that question completely, and focus on
the other problems, like ETA, speed-made-good,
etc. There are only 10 questions on charting and
only 7 needed to pass, so rather than spend hours
plotting Set and Drift, people skip it completely.


Testmanship is always a worthwhile skill

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Geeee. I found chart work easier than the rest of the test.

I last tested in 1987 for the 1600 ton test . IIRC the chart work was
on a chart and not multiple choice.

If you want a licences go to Houston Marine in Houston or New Orleans.
They will prep you on the test. Both close.. if not in the same bldgs
as the USCG testing offices.

Joe

Bart Senior wrote:


Have you seen the Set and Drift problems the USCG uses
on their Charting test?

I can rarely get "their" answer. They must use a computer
to mathematically calculate the result, because the thickness
of a pencil line, and errors with transfering the True Bearing
to the Compass Rose will throw you off nearly every time.
The points are close together and that decreases accuracy
also.

Set and Drift is one reason I've held off testing. For a long
time my confidence was shaken because I couldn't make
these problem work out, and didn't stop to consider I can
get all the other answers correct. The reason is the USCG
doesn't plot to find the solutions, they use mathematics.

I finally realized Set and Drift is only one question on the test.
My new strategy is to compare my Drift result with the closest
multiple choice answer and check the answer to be sure the
Set is going it approximately the same direction. If not I chose
the answer that most closely matched my calculated S&D.

Using this method, and picking the closest answer, I can
chose the closest answer and it will turn out to be correct
even if I can't imagine how anyone could arrive there
through plotting on a paper chart.

I don't know how the USCG arrives at their answers for these problems,
but recently I was helping someone study for his test and I did notice
a problem which I've seen with a number of people.
Their plotting.
In doing the plots, you have to be extremely careful to have a sharp
pencil, watch how you move your triangles/parallel rule (slipping) and
use a pointed set of dividers (BG the hell with the chart), in other
words, you need to be precise.
Having said that, generally there can be answers that are either way
off or close if you make a sloppy plot, but for the most part only one
that is near to what your plot will show.
If you don't see something close, then check your plot. Normally this
will be where your error is, and start at the beginning, because if the
first line you draw isn't accurate, the rest will tend to compound the
error.
Best advice I can give? Relax. Most mistakes are made because we get
too tense, worried about getting it right.
If it doesn't work out, and you can't find an obvious mistake, erase it
all and start over, carefully.
Good luck when you take the test and thanks for the Rules questions.
They're always a good review method.

Shen