The stern light would interfere with the vision of the operator of the tug so it
is logical to not have a stern light.

I say any tow that is alongside but has its bow ahead of the tug is being pushed
ahead. This is were the confusion comes in. Towed alongside to me means a hip
tow and a hip tow is where the bow of the tug is further forward in the combination.

CN


"Bart Senior" wrote in message ...
Neal,

Take a look at this link to the most current rules:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...les/Rule24.htm

"a vessel being pushed ahead, not being part of a composite unit,
shall exhibit at the forward end, sidelights, and a special flashing light [Inld];"

Both hip tow and pushing ahead for inland have the special flashing light.

The only difference between the two--aside from physical configuration is
there is no stern light on the push ahead tow. Both have special flashing
lights on the bow of the tow. the only case where there is no special
flashing light is tow behind--same for both INLAND and INTERNATIONAL.

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ...


Bart,

You need to review.

For pushing ahead in inland rules you need sidelights and a special flashing light on the tow.

For hip towing you need only the side light on the front of the tow plus two yellow
towing lights on the stern of the tow.

I hope this helps.

CN

"Bart Senior" wrote in message ...
Doug,

What is the difference in lights between the
hip tow and pushing ahead?

"DSK" wrote

I think that's right, a side tie gets the same light as being pushed ahead.

Capt. Neal® wrote:
Hip tow means the tug itself is further forward than the tow.

wrong.

This configuration does not need a special flashing light on the tow.

wrong.

Towing alongside can mean a hip tow or an alongside tow where the
tow is further forward than the tug.
Question 21 is poorly worded and I maintain B is still the correct answer
because, unless it clarifies 'along side' as not being a hip tow, then it
means the tow is further ahead than the tug - in effect the tug is pushing
ahead. Click the link for a picture.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...ule24fInld.gif

I hope this helps.

CN

When a tug takes a tow on the "hip", the tug is on the side of the tow,
towards the stern of the tow, preferably with his stern clear of the tow.
To put a tug fwd on the tow would greatly reduce the maneuverability of
the tug when trying to handle the tow (when alone).
Neal, you know less about tug and barges than I do, so give it a rest,
you got this one wrong, along with four others.
There was nothing wrong with the wording of the question, just your answer.
To the best of my knowledge, a tug will say the barge is on the hip, no
matter where he is located on the barge side, but in many cases this
will refer to a tug which was towing astern, maneuvering alongside to
tie up to the barge when entering a port. Being on the "hip" is not good
at sea.

otn

Capt. Neal® wrote:
The stern light would interfere with the vision of the operator of the
tug so it
is logical to not have a stern light.

I say any tow that is alongside but has its bow ahead of the tug is
being pushed
ahead.

wrong.

This is were the confusion comes in. Towed alongside to me means
a hip
tow and a hip tow is where the bow of the tug is further forward in the
combination.

wrong, but all things considered, it's understandable that you wouldn't
know better.

otn

I thought it was just 6 years ago.

So you're claiming that you were once, but no longer are, a qualified
master? Well, it shows.


Capt. Neal® wrote:
Hardly lame at all. I took the test well over six years ago. PUTZ!

B. was correct when I took the test originally.

CN


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...

Lame excuse, the rule was changed 6 years ago.


Bart Senior wrote:

This is a very good question.

Neal has an older copy of the Rules, like mine.

The Rule has changed recently.

D is correct.

This is nonsense. You're proving you're not even qualified to read
the questions. "Hip tow" was not mentioned in the question, nor is it
used in the rules. "Towing alongside" is pretty unambiguous.


Capt. Neal® wrote:
Hip tow means the tug itself is further forward than the tow.

This configuration does not need a special flashing light on the tow.

Towing alongside can mean a hip tow or an alongside tow where the
tow is further forward than the tug.
Question 21 is poorly worded and I maintain B is still the correct answer
because, unless it clarifies 'along side' as not being a hip tow, then it
means the tow is further ahead than the tug - in effect the tug is pushing
ahead. Click the link for a picture.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...ule24fInld.gif

I hope this helps.

CN


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
...

This is an interesting question, and shows out how the
Rules do change. I need to either go through my Rule
books and make updates, or else get a new ones.

I believe the long tug/long tow option is GONE where four
white verticle lights were used for this configuration. Tugs
with tows would display either 2 or 3 masthead lights.
3 for long tow over 200 meters. Rule 23 (a) ii no longer
applies for tows.

****

Here is how I remember it for short tug.

The idea is to think about what lights you take
away as you make changes from tow-behind to
hip-tow, to push-ahead-tow.

****

For International and Inland the tow-behind lights are the same:

Long Tow [behind]

Three whites on the mast, diamond dayshape on tow and
last barge. Yellow tow light over stern light, sidelights on
Tow. Barges have sidelights and sternlights.

Short Tow--[Drop a couple barges] Drop tug masthead
lights--from three to 2. Also drop dayshapes.

International:

Bring Tow up to hip-tow. Drop yellow tow light.
Bring Tow up to tow-ahead. Drop stern light on tow

Inland
Swap sternlight for two yellow tow lights aft.
Add special flashing lights to bows of tow for
both hip tow and push-ahead tow.

For Western Rivers with low bridge clearance,
you get to drop the tug's two white lights. In
such cases, there are no white lights on a push
ahead tow!

******

Optional--direct searchlight in direction of tow

Partially submerged tows need a 360 white light at each end.
Also black diamond dayshape and searchlight.

Bart


"DSK" wrote in

Bart Senior wrote:

Doug,

What is the difference in lights between the
hip tow and pushing ahead?


AFAIK there isn't a difference. In both cases the towing/pushing
vessel displays running lights + towing lights, the tow displays
yellow lights.


No stern light on push-ahead barge.


I don't know this stuff by heart, I always look it up. On those rare
occasions when we're underway at night and see a tow, I call the
skipper on VHF... is that cheating?

DSK

Typical Neal. You get the question wrong so you try to invent new
concepts. The question exactly duplicates the wording in the rule.
Why do you have so much trouble be a man and admitting you're wrong?
Its becoming clear you're just another whiny liberal.


Capt. Neal® wrote:
The stern light would interfere with the vision of the operator of the
tug so it
is logical to not have a stern light.

I say any tow that is alongside but has its bow ahead of the tug is
being pushed
ahead. This is were the confusion comes in. Towed alongside to me means
a hip
tow and a hip tow is where the bow of the tug is further forward in the
combination.

CN


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
...

Neal,

Take a look at this link to the most current rules:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...les/Rule24.htm

"a vessel being pushed ahead, not being part of a composite unit,
shall exhibit at the forward end, sidelights, and a special flashing
light [Inld];"

Both hip tow and pushing ahead for inland have the special flashing
light.

The only difference between the two--aside from physical configuration is
there is no stern light on the push ahead tow. Both have special
flashing
lights on the bow of the tow. the only case where there is no special
flashing light is tow behind--same for both INLAND and INTERNATIONAL.

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...



Bart,

You need to review.

For pushing ahead in inland rules you need sidelights and a special
flashing light on the tow.

For hip towing you need only the side light on the front of the tow
plus two yellow
towing lights on the stern of the tow.

I hope this helps.

CN

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
...

Doug,

What is the difference in lights between the
hip tow and pushing ahead?

"DSK" wrote

I think that's right, a side tie gets the same light as being
pushed ahead.

Capt,

Most times if not all when a barge is on the Hip the tug is still as
far aft as possiable. That way he can still control the barge. Its a
**** poor way to tow but needed in some situations. Never is the barge
on the hip near the bow of the barge. You would have next to no
control.

Joe

Joe wrote:
Capt,

Most times if not all when a barge is on the Hip the tug is still as
far aft as possiable. That way he can still control the barge. Its a
**** poor way to tow but needed in some situations. Never is the barge
on the hip near the bow of the barge. You would have next to no
control.

Joe


No arguments here. Generally when you see this, the tug has come from
sea and a stern tow. Prior to docking, she'll take the barge on the
"hip" for obvious reasons of handling.
Some of the few times I've seen a tug situated as Neal described was
when the barge was light and/or they had a barge on each hip.
At any rate, when I'm handling a tug/barge combination, I always look to
see how far aft the tug is for a quick judge of maneuverability.

otn

I can hip tow much bigger boats using my 10-foot dinghy and 3.3 hp
Mariner. I only have steering control, however if I hip tow and have
my dinghy's motor aft the transom of the boat I'm towing.

This is a hip tow but the tow's bow is way forward of mine.
In a way, it is pushing from behind. I can see why they changed
the rule to require a special flashing light on such a tow because
it is little different from one where the tug is in-line behind the
tow.

CN


"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...
Joe wrote:
Capt,

Most times if not all when a barge is on the Hip the tug is still as
far aft as possiable. That way he can still control the barge. Its a
**** poor way to tow but needed in some situations. Never is the barge
on the hip near the bow of the barge. You would have next to no
control.

Joe


No arguments here. Generally when you see this, the tug has come from
sea and a stern tow. Prior to docking, she'll take the barge on the
"hip" for obvious reasons of handling.
Some of the few times I've seen a tug situated as Neal described was
when the barge was light and/or they had a barge on each hip.
At any rate, when I'm handling a tug/barge combination, I always look to
see how far aft the tug is for a quick judge of maneuverability.

otn

Call me lame too. I didn't know about it until recently.

"Jeff Morris" wrote

Lame excuse, the rule was changed 6 years ago.