Of course I am correct with respect to Rule 5 and little Ellen
being in violation of it for a period of time exceeding three
months.

That's the core of the issue and anybody, so far, who has
tried to introduce other issues or deny the core issue is
in denial based on personal ignorance or prejudice and
arguing impotently.

It is heartening to see this group has at least one other
subscriber who does not allow his ignorance or prejudice
to interfere with his clear thinking.

I, however, am not as generous as you. I will never
congratulate Ellen on her so-called record. Records
have to be garnered according to the rules. Records,
such as Ellen's, are ill-gotten because they are illegal
by definition as explained in my recent post elsewhere.

There is no other sport or avocation I can think of
where a record is established in blatant violation
of the rules of that sport or avocation.

Ellen has continuously and blatantly violated
Rule 5 of the COLREGS. Her record is invalid because
it was garnered illegally. That the sport of sailboat
racing condones illegal activity and calls it record-
breaking does not bode well for the morals of those
engaged therein.

CN

"Gilligan" wrote in message ink.net...
Congratulations to Ellen for setting a new World Record. This person
bettered the previous record by a margin of about 2%, a true accomplishment
by almost any measure.

To the thinking person, this accomplishment raises several issues. First is
the issue of sportmanship. Athletes are routinely penalized for
unsportmanslike conduct and can suffer lifetime disbarment for other
actions. Take Pete Rose for example, just for betting. Ellen has put herself
and others at risk, potentially violated international law and treaties -
where are the sanctions?

Secondly is the potential issue of fraud. If a woman took first place in
men's weightlifting in the Olympics, or outran the men in the 100 meter dash
you can bet she'd have a cotton swab jammed in her mouth a for chromosome
testing. If Ellen's feat is so grand and so remarkable even for a man, let
alone a woman, any credible sports sanctioning institute would be testing
away.

Thirdly is the regard of sailing as a sport. The heavy reliance on
equipment, sponsorship (she was sailing a billboard if you failed to notice)
and possibly use of stimulants overweighs physical performance. This simply
says sailing is not a true sport. As the good Captain has maintained sailing
for most of you is an escape. Ellens escapade falls into the realm of
entertainment and is a commercial enterprise. Proper sailing is a lifestyle,
not an event. The few here who execute it with any grace are Captain Neal,
Simple Simon and to a lesser degree, Joe.

To prove this to yourselves, beyond a trace of doubt, ask yourself this
question:

"Would the oceans of the world be a better place to sail if it had 1000
Captains Neals on it or 1000 Ellens on it?"

In your heart you know he's right!

Gilligan

OK Crappy,

Guess I'll have to ask you for YOUR explanation of proper look-out by
sight and hearing at all times?

Ole Thom

My definition does not matter as the definition of a proper lookout is
defined by Rule 5, itself.

Why can't people understand plain English anymore?

Here's your lesson for today. Study it hard and
please forego the spirits.

Rule 5
Look-out
"Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper
look-out by sight as well as by hearing as well
as by all available means appropriate in the
prevailing circumstances and conditions so
as to make a full appraisal of the situation
and of the risk of collision."

Be so kind as to allow me to re-state it so even
someone who likes pilothouses might understand.

"A proper look-out is defined by every vessel
at all times maintaining a look-out by sight as
well as by hearing as well as by all available
means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances
and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision."

I hope this helps.

CN




"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
OK Crappy,

Guess I'll have to ask you for YOUR explanation of proper look-out by
sight and hearing at all times?

Ole Thom

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
"A proper look-out is defined by every vessel
at all times maintaining a look-out by sight as
well as by hearing as well as by all available
means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances
and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision."

So what if you are sailing on a lake and nobody else is on the lake....
would you have to keep a "proper look-out?.... and what would a "proper
look-out" be in those conditions?

CM

Capt. Mooron wrote:
"Capt. Neal=AE" wrote in message
"A proper look-out is defined by every vessel
at all times maintaining a look-out by sight as
well as by hearing as well as by all available
means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances
and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision."

So what if you are sailing on a lake and nobody else is on the
lake....
would you have to keep a "proper look-out?
Let me answer Mooron.

Yes I would


..=2E.. and what would a "proper
look-out" be in those conditions?

One that makes a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision.
=20

Joe

CM

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

Capt. Mooron wrote:
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
"A proper look-out is defined by every vessel
at all times maintaining a look-out by sight as
well as by hearing as well as by all available
means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances
and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision."

So what if you are sailing on a lake and nobody else is on the
lake....
would you have to keep a "proper look-out?
Let me answer Mooron.

Yes I would


..... and what would a "proper
look-out" be in those conditions?

One that makes a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision.


Well since there is only one vessel on the lake in this scenario.... would
you be updating that apprasial on a constant basis? Would you be maintaining
a proper look-out at all times?

CM

Capt. Mooron wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

Capt. Mooron wrote:
"Capt. Neal=AE" wrote in message
"A proper look-out is defined by every vessel
at all times maintaining a look-out by sight as
well as by hearing as well as by all available
means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances
and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision."

So what if you are sailing on a lake and nobody else is on the
lake....
would you have to keep a "proper look-out?
Let me answer Mooron.

Yes I would


.... and what would a "proper
look-out" be in those conditions?

One that makes a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision.


Well since there is only one vessel on the lake in this scenario....
would
you be updating that apprasial on a constant basis?

Would that be needed to makes a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision?

If so I would, If not....then no.

Joe



Would you be maintaining=20
a proper look-out at all times?
=20
CM

Joe wrote:

.... and what would a "proper
look-out" be in those conditions?

One that makes a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision.

Exactly. If we condense Rule 5 by removing the specifics of what sort of
look-out is to be kept, its true meaning can be discerned...

Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out ... so as
to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

IOW, a proper look-out is defined as that which allows the sailor to
ascertain "a full appraisal appraisal of the situation and of the risk of
collision". It is that look-out which is sufficient to acheive this. It is
not, as Captain Crow Pie falsely claims, maintaining a constant vigil by
constantly spinning in one's cockpit in a perpetual scan of the horizon, or
perhaps by growing eyes in the back of one's head in the hope of attaining
360-degree vision. One can only assume that the aforementioned captain does
not blink...


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Stupid thing to say, Wally. What if a submarine surfaces right in front
of you ten seconds after you have scanned the horizon and thought
all was well so you went below to take a ten-minute nap?

Like our resident wannabe barrister, Jeffypoo, loves to say
'Assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information . . ."

CN


"Wally" wrote in message . uk...
Joe wrote:

.... and what would a "proper
look-out" be in those conditions?

One that makes a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision.

Exactly. If we condense Rule 5 by removing the specifics of what sort of
look-out is to be kept, its true meaning can be discerned...

Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out ... so as
to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

IOW, a proper look-out is defined as that which allows the sailor to
ascertain "a full appraisal appraisal of the situation and of the risk of
collision". It is that look-out which is sufficient to acheive this. It is
not, as Captain Crow Pie falsely claims, maintaining a constant vigil by
constantly spinning in one's cockpit in a perpetual scan of the horizon, or
perhaps by growing eyes in the back of one's head in the hope of attaining
360-degree vision. One can only assume that the aforementioned captain does
not blink...


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Your logic and reasoning leaves a lot to be desired, but . . .

I'll say one good thing about you, Wally. You know the right
color to paint a sloop.

Did you have Ole Thom design those end plates on the keel?

CN

"Wally" wrote in message . uk...
Joe wrote:

.... and what would a "proper
look-out" be in those conditions?

One that makes a full appraisal of
the situation and of the risk of collision.

Exactly. If we condense Rule 5 by removing the specifics of what sort of
look-out is to be kept, its true meaning can be discerned...

Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out ... so as
to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

IOW, a proper look-out is defined as that which allows the sailor to
ascertain "a full appraisal appraisal of the situation and of the risk of
collision". It is that look-out which is sufficient to acheive this. It is
not, as Captain Crow Pie falsely claims, maintaining a constant vigil by
constantly spinning in one's cockpit in a perpetual scan of the horizon, or
perhaps by growing eyes in the back of one's head in the hope of attaining
360-degree vision. One can only assume that the aforementioned captain does
not blink...


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk