A couple of "corrections" Bart.... from someone experienced in the Arctic
and who has witnessed what total havoc can be accomplished even under
"strict guidelines"

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
...

Even if nothing was done to clean up damange, which would
not happen, Mother Nature would solve this problem all by herself.
The fact is there would be a clean up when we are done extracting
this oil.

Disagree.... take a look at the Dew Line sites. Still not cleaned up....
areas surrounding the sites have been subject to oil drum storage and
leaking of contaminants. Simple track marks from a dozer used 30 years ago
are still clearly visible. Destruction of ground cover from over 30 years
ago has still not recovered. For all it's formidable and hostile
environment.. the Tundra is 1000 times more susceptable to environmental
damage than Taiga or Boreal areas. The permafrost degradation alone is
massive at any excavation or penetration of the substrate. Migration
patterns are altered or distrupted causing severe problems in fauna
management. Even the current strict guidelines for the relatively clean
operation of diamond mining is having a negative impact. There has been no
"clean-up" of any sites used by companies since these sites are sold, traded
and resold so many times that the original owners are not held accountable
and the last company in usually goes bankrupt ...leaving clean-up to the
taxpayers. I can assure you this is an industry wide standard in avioding
clean-up costs. It's exactly what will happen this time as well.... it's
still amazing to some that companies will promise whatever it will take to
access the sites..... what's even more amazing is that despite historical
data proving otherwise... they believe the corporate world to have a
concience and ethics.


There is nothing on the ocean that can long survive--no ship,
no mining structure, and no mineral oil spill that Mother Nature
won't clean up herself in a very short time. On land it takes a
little longer.

I take it you are referring to geological timelines... because a 100 years
is a very long time to me!


If you want to be concerned about the environment, be concerned
about toxic chemicals and radiological contaminants--you will
find those closer to home--not in the Artic.

If you can't control your own backyard... what makes you think you wll have
any control in such a remote and isolated area?



Let them pump all the oil and natural gas they can out of there and
simply make sure they do a clean job of it and remove all the
damage when they leave! Given time, there will be nothing
significant to show we were there. If you really care, go up there
and monitor what they are doing. I doubt you care enough to leave
your warm home--heated with fossil fuel, and put action to your
words.

They won't clean it up.... a thousand years from now evidence of their
activities will still be seen and the impact on the ecosystem will still be
ongoing.


In five years oil prices will be sharply higher, and you will be
mad at whoever is in office because fuel prices will be too high.
People will have bigger concerns--like how to stay warm.

Here's a clue... have everyone practise birth control and drastically reduce
the population of the world.

CM

Birth control? But then what excuse would Moms have to drive an SUV?

SV



"Capt. Mooron" wrote

Here's a clue... have everyone practise birth control and
drastically reduce
the population of the world.

CM

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Birth control? But then what excuse would Moms have to drive an SUV?

SV

So they wouldn't need to pay $30 for someone to put chains on their sedan!??

CM

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news93Pd.44140$gA4.18068@edtnps89...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Birth control? But then what excuse would Moms have to drive an
SUV?

SV

So they wouldn't need to pay $30 for someone to put chains on their
sedan!??


Some of those soccer moms are pretty tuff. Most could beat up Gaynzy
and not break a sweat.

SV

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news93Pd.44140$gA4.18068@edtnps89...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Birth control? But then what excuse would Moms have to drive an
SUV?

SV

So they wouldn't need to pay $30 for someone to put chains on their
sedan!??


Some of those soccer moms are pretty tuff. Most could beat up Gaynzy
and not break a sweat.

Their kids could lay a can of whoop ass on Ganzy and not break a sweat!!!

CM

Reported!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:LabPd.44348$gA4.4274@edtnps89...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news93Pd.44140$gA4.18068@edtnps89...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Birth control? But then what excuse would Moms have to drive an
SUV?

SV

So they wouldn't need to pay $30 for someone to put chains on their
sedan!??


Some of those soccer moms are pretty tuff. Most could beat up Gaynzy
and not break a sweat.

Their kids could lay a can of whoop ass on Ganzy and not break a sweat!!!

CM

Woooooooo... I'm so excited!

Do I get a prize Jon?

CM

"JG" wrote in message
...
Reported!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:LabPd.44348$gA4.4274@edtnps89...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news93Pd.44140$gA4.18068@edtnps89...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Birth control? But then what excuse would Moms have to drive an
SUV?

SV

So they wouldn't need to pay $30 for someone to put chains on their
sedan!??


Some of those soccer moms are pretty tuff. Most could beat up Gaynzy
and not break a sweat.

Their kids could lay a can of whoop ass on Ganzy and not break a sweat!!!

CM

"JG" wrote ...
Reported to GlorySail.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:LabPd.44348$gA4.4274@edtnps89...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news93Pd.44140$gA4.18068@edtnps89...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Birth control? But then what excuse would Moms have to drive
an
SUV?

SV

So they wouldn't need to pay $30 for someone to put chains on
their
sedan!??


Some of those soccer moms are pretty tuff. Most could beat up
Gaynzy
and not break a sweat.

Their kids could lay a can of whoop ass on Ganzy and not break a
sweat!!!

CM

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:14:32 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
wrote this crap:



Some of those soccer moms are pretty tuff. Most could beat up Gaynzy
and not break a sweat.


Most of their daughters could beat up Jon-boy.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Dinosaur tracks have lasted for millions of years and we still find their
turds laying around. Tundra smundra! The next ice age/global warming episode
will clean things up.



"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:Tk1Pd.44112$gA4.23254@edtnps89...
A couple of "corrections" Bart.... from someone experienced in the Arctic
and who has witnessed what total havoc can be accomplished even under
"strict guidelines"

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
...

Even if nothing was done to clean up damange, which would
not happen, Mother Nature would solve this problem all by herself.
The fact is there would be a clean up when we are done extracting
this oil.

Disagree.... take a look at the Dew Line sites. Still not cleaned up....
areas surrounding the sites have been subject to oil drum storage and
leaking of contaminants. Simple track marks from a dozer used 30 years ago
are still clearly visible. Destruction of ground cover from over 30 years
ago has still not recovered. For all it's formidable and hostile
environment.. the Tundra is 1000 times more susceptable to environmental
damage than Taiga or Boreal areas. The permafrost degradation alone is
massive at any excavation or penetration of the substrate. Migration
patterns are altered or distrupted causing severe problems in fauna
management. Even the current strict guidelines for the relatively clean
operation of diamond mining is having a negative impact. There has been no
"clean-up" of any sites used by companies since these sites are sold,
traded
and resold so many times that the original owners are not held accountable
and the last company in usually goes bankrupt ...leaving clean-up to the
taxpayers. I can assure you this is an industry wide standard in avioding
clean-up costs. It's exactly what will happen this time as well.... it's
still amazing to some that companies will promise whatever it will take to
access the sites..... what's even more amazing is that despite historical
data proving otherwise... they believe the corporate world to have a
concience and ethics.


There is nothing on the ocean that can long survive--no ship,
no mining structure, and no mineral oil spill that Mother Nature
won't clean up herself in a very short time. On land it takes a
little longer.

I take it you are referring to geological timelines... because a 100 years
is a very long time to me!


If you want to be concerned about the environment, be concerned
about toxic chemicals and radiological contaminants--you will
find those closer to home--not in the Artic.

If you can't control your own backyard... what makes you think you wll
have
any control in such a remote and isolated area?



Let them pump all the oil and natural gas they can out of there and
simply make sure they do a clean job of it and remove all the
damage when they leave! Given time, there will be nothing
significant to show we were there. If you really care, go up there
and monitor what they are doing. I doubt you care enough to leave
your warm home--heated with fossil fuel, and put action to your
words.

They won't clean it up.... a thousand years from now evidence of their
activities will still be seen and the impact on the ecosystem will still
be
ongoing.


In five years oil prices will be sharply higher, and you will be
mad at whoever is in office because fuel prices will be too high.
People will have bigger concerns--like how to stay warm.

Here's a clue... have everyone practise birth control and drastically
reduce
the population of the world.

CM