Play with this for a while and you will see that for the type of
upwind speeds the "Bat" has it needs higher aspect ratio sails.

http://www.wb-sails.fi/news/SailPowe...lPowerCalc.htm

CN

Thanks Neal,

Starting a new thread is a very good Idea. It probably is going to take
more time to educate you than I thought.
(By the way, I can't use JAVA)
Now, If I understand you, You are saying (Correct me if I'm wrong)
Aspect RATIO is Base (foot length) to Luff length.

Neal, I call that sail area. A longer Luff is a Taller Rig and that is a
fact. However, You are leaving out and important item. Lift; two sails
with the same foot and luff can have different "ASPECT RATIOS"
Do you agree to this?

This Stupid old man, says Aspect Ratio uses CHORD Depth and Position to
Horizontal distance of sail from Luff to Leech. In other words the
airfoil shape.

The fact is you even had it explained in one of your replies, About the
Pirate and the Horizontal swipe of the sail with his cutlass. Your
example; not mine (G)

Again, this stupid old man says it again;
You haven't a clue!!
When you straighten me out on that, we'll go farther with your
enlightenment.

Ole Thom

Wow Neal,

You've got 3 threads going. Which one do you want to use to prove I'm
STUPID?

Since you agreed to what Aspect Ratio was in "Wild Ride" although you
referred to height and base, in one of the treads as Sail Aspect Ratio.

Aspect Ratio
Do we agree that the deeper the Chord the Higher the Aspect Ratio? This
is important because if you do, high aspect sails aren't faster, they
are slower.

They are more powerful. That is they will DRAW when the wind is light.
Similar to 1st gear on a transmission, but need to be flat (Low Aspect)
for high speeds.

Think about that for awhile, before we continue on about Sail Aspect
Ratio.

Ole Thom

Thom,

You are being overly simplistic. Since sails are not rectangles the chord is not
a fixed quantity. The chord can be viewed as an average at best.

For example, it the foot of the sail is ten feet and the luff of the sail is 30 feet
then one could say the aspect ratio is 3:1. However since the sail is not a rectangle
this aspect ratio does not give the complete picture. There is a different aspect ratio
depending on where the chord measurement is taken along the luff and leech of the sail.

But, putting all this aside, a sail with a foot of ten feet will have a lower aspect
ratio than a sail with a foot of eight feet given the luff of both sails is the same
and each has approximately the same roach.

It is clear to me that you don't understand what chord means. It has nothing to
do with the depth of the sail. It has to do with the width of the sail.

I hope this helps.

CN


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Wow Neal,

You've got 3 threads going. Which one do you want to use to prove I'm
STUPID?

Since you agreed to what Aspect Ratio was in "Wild Ride" although you
referred to height and base, in one of the treads as Sail Aspect Ratio.

Aspect Ratio
Do we agree that the deeper the Chord the Higher the Aspect Ratio? This
is important because if you do, high aspect sails aren't faster, they
are slower.

They are more powerful. That is they will DRAW when the wind is light.
Similar to 1st gear on a transmission, but need to be flat (Low Aspect)
for high speeds.

Think about that for awhile, before we continue on about Sail Aspect
Ratio.

Ole Thom

Neal,

Be very careful of what you're saying! Your last post is in error. You
may want to retract. You're not thinking, you're trying to double-talk
wrong statements.

I'm being simplistic by choose. I'm trying to make statement hopefully,
that can be used with double meaning.

When a sailmaker designs and makes a sail to a certain ASPECT SAIL
RATIO, he isn't working to an average. He is cutting and stitching to
fixed measurements. Even your Hong Kong short cutters. That statement
you've made is incorrect, Wrong !

Chord has everything to do with depth of Sail. Wrong again!

This discussion was created by your lack of a Clue about Sail Aspect
RATIO. I've been giving you true knowledge and yet you are still making
stupid, wrong statements.

A sailmaker can make a sail with the same foot length and Luff length
and have a Different Sail Ratio. He can make a sail with a smaller foot
have the same ASPECT RATIO. It depends on the RATIO of the depth (Chord)
to the length of the horizontal measurement from the Luff to the Leech.
THE RATIO!!!

I'm sure that a very large majority understand Aspect Ratio and you
still don't.

You've been caught, filet and made into roll mops. And; that from the
stupid, old man's doing.

Now let's talk about "Spitfires" sail plan.
Can you figure why they have what they have and why? That should be an
interesting reply.

I say again. Depth has nothing to do with chord. Chord is the measurement
of a sail parallel to the flow of the air. Depth has to do with the fullness
of flatness of a sail.

How is it you ever lived to be 120 years old without learning the basics?

CN



"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Neal,

Be very careful of what you're saying! Your last post is in error. You
may want to retract. You're not thinking, you're trying to double-talk
wrong statements.

I'm being simplistic by choose. I'm trying to make statement hopefully,
that can be used with double meaning.

When a sailmaker designs and makes a sail to a certain ASPECT SAIL
RATIO, he isn't working to an average. He is cutting and stitching to
fixed measurements. Even your Hong Kong short cutters. That statement
you've made is incorrect, Wrong !

Chord has everything to do with depth of Sail. Wrong again!

This discussion was created by your lack of a Clue about Sail Aspect
RATIO. I've been giving you true knowledge and yet you are still making
stupid, wrong statements.

A sailmaker can make a sail with the same foot length and Luff length
and have a Different Sail Ratio. He can make a sail with a smaller foot
have the same ASPECT RATIO. It depends on the RATIO of the depth (Chord)
to the length of the horizontal measurement from the Luff to the Leech.
THE RATIO!!!

I'm sure that a very large majority understand Aspect Ratio and you
still don't.

You've been caught, filet and made into roll mops. And; that from the
stupid, old man's doing.

Now let's talk about "Spitfires" sail plan.
Can you figure why they have what they have and why? That should be an
interesting reply.

http://www.seed.slb.com/en/scictr/watch/sailing/

I hope this helps. It shows a picture of what chord is and it mentions the term
chord depth. You have obviously confused depth with chord.

CN


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Neal,

Be very careful of what you're saying! Your last post is in error. You
may want to retract. You're not thinking, you're trying to double-talk
wrong statements.

I'm being simplistic by choose. I'm trying to make statement hopefully,
that can be used with double meaning.

When a sailmaker designs and makes a sail to a certain ASPECT SAIL
RATIO, he isn't working to an average. He is cutting and stitching to
fixed measurements. Even your Hong Kong short cutters. That statement
you've made is incorrect, Wrong !

Chord has everything to do with depth of Sail. Wrong again!

This discussion was created by your lack of a Clue about Sail Aspect
RATIO. I've been giving you true knowledge and yet you are still making
stupid, wrong statements.

A sailmaker can make a sail with the same foot length and Luff length
and have a Different Sail Ratio. He can make a sail with a smaller foot
have the same ASPECT RATIO. It depends on the RATIO of the depth (Chord)
to the length of the horizontal measurement from the Luff to the Leech.
THE RATIO!!!

I'm sure that a very large majority understand Aspect Ratio and you
still don't.

You've been caught, filet and made into roll mops. And; that from the
stupid, old man's doing.

Now let's talk about "Spitfires" sail plan.
Can you figure why they have what they have and why? That should be an
interesting reply.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Now let's talk about "Spitfires" sail plan.
Can you figure why they have what they have and why? That should be an
interesting reply.


What they have is sails not suited to the task at hand which task is breaking speed
records. To go faster they need higher aspect ratio sails with a more rounded top to
reduce drag caused by the tip vortex those flat-topped sails create.

CN

I'll add (nothing useful) to this multi-thread by commenting that The
Crapton's math/physics knowledge is matched only by his sailing skill.
Frank (IOW, zero = zero)