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"DSK" wrote in message . .. katysails wrote: Doug, In order for your first point to succeed, you ahve to have your second point in place for development of conscience. I disagree. I knew you would... ... When young children are being raised, it is necessary that there be consequences for actions...good and bad. Agreed. But that can be reduced to simple behaviorism... mechanistically reinforcing children to act in ways that are "good." And what is it that determines what is "good" vs what is "bad"? Behaviorism can be used to direct any type of behavior pattern to the will of the director if applied correctly...developing conscience adds the element of appropriateness according to a set of moral or ethical values... This is not the same thing as having (and following) a rational moral & ethical code. In order to follow a rational moral or ethical code one must be directed...one must have a formed consciounce...fear of comnsequence is the most advantageous way to learn that... ... Consequences can be equivocated to punishment at times if the infraction is grave. Fear of negative consequence is a healthy thing. It keeps us from becoming sociopathic. The problem with this viewpoint is that it erases the difference between a sociopath who is restrained by fear of punishment, and a person who has no tendency towards sociopathy. A sociopath restrained by fear is still restrained..which is a good thing...a sociopath is typically amoral...there is only what is good or bad for him...a person who is not sociopathic will sift through and determine what is correct and what is incorrect behavior..fear is a great element in that development...a child being told that he will be burned if he plays with the stove usually won't stop playing with the stive until he is burned...the fear of being burned again assists with his then making a better choice in the future... This sort of thinking is like those cops who believe that there's no such thing as an honest citizen. Do you believe this is right & good?!? I find it hard to believe that you do... I believe that people learn to be bad or good and if not presented with the right choices and the right consequences, that they will choose bad. In the long run, it is far easier to be a bad person because the self-gratification is so great. I do believe tha thteir are honest and good people, but that they are honest and good because they have chosen to be that way. DSK |
I disagree.
katysails wrote: I knew you would... Hah! By appearing to be predictable, I lull you into a false sense of security! But seriously, a behavioristic (or mechanistic, as some people think of it) way of instilling "good" behavior works quite well; however I don't think it is in any way related to developing a set of ethical and moral values. It is a good holding action until those values can be developed, though ;) And what is it that determines what is "good" vs what is "bad"? Well, we haven't gotten into that. It's a whole seperate issue for consideration. ... Behaviorism can be used to direct any type of behavior pattern to the will of the director if applied correctly... Bingo. Considering that it's pretty simple, it's surprising that more people can't do it. I have never (and hopefully, will never) raised children, but I have raised a number of dogs, all of whom were well behaved. Our current dog, adopted from the pound as an adult, has been the biggest challenge, and after a few months he's shaping up quite nicely. ...developing conscience adds the element of appropriateness according to a set of moral or ethical values... I'm not sure what you mean by "appropriate." In order to follow a rational moral or ethical code one must be directed...one must have a formed consciounce... I definitely agree. ... fear of comnsequence is the most advantageous way to learn that... I disagree, these are two seperate things entirely. They do have *almost* the same result, however. For example, it is wrong to kill people. It's one of the biggest no-nos in all societies' ethos. However, it is also universally... in all societies, past or present... allowed or even encouraged under very specific circumstances. You can use behaviorism to reinforce the idea 'thou shalt not kill' but this does nothing whatever about those special circumstances. And it's a problem, the military does a fairly directed training towards giving soldiers the emotional capacity to kill, and many (those with social restraint but no conscience, no moral or ethical values ingrained) cause problems later on. Another example is "thou shalt not steal." Is it wrong for a mother to steal bread, so that she can feed her child? Is it wrong for a mayor to award public construction contracts to his brother-in-law? A sociopath restrained by fear is still restrained..which is a good thing...a sociopath is typically amoral...there is only what is good or bad for him... Right. We have a few right here in this newsgroup... I believe that people learn to be bad or good and if not presented with the right choices and the right consequences, that they will choose bad. In the long run, it is far easier to be a bad person because the self-gratification is so great. Not sure if I disagree, but keep in mind that our moral sense is inherited from hundreds of thousands of years of human life in communities. Choosing bad actions has bad results, often for the individual in the long run and almost always for the community in the long and short run. Selfishness is not considered a virtue in any human society that I've heard of. It's my belief, demonstrable in history, that following a good code of morals is the surest path to success in the long run. This applies to the individual and the community... and "community" can (perhaps *must*) be expanded to include most of mankind. This is one reason why I have a big problem with our current political set-up. ... I do believe tha thteir are honest and good people, but that they are honest and good because they have chosen to be that way. Following from your earlier statements, it would seem that good & honest people are that way because their mothers hammered it into them. And that, I agree with! Regards Doug King |
"DSK" wrote I have never (and hopefully, will never) raised children, but I have raised a number of dogs, all of whom were well behaved. Pretty much the same thing, only you need a bigger choker chain. Scotty |
OK CM,
Talk is Cheap! Time to put up! Put up or renege! The US, Australia, and Japan have been on sight, getting supplies to the needy victims. Finally after some 12 days the UN is going to join in. Annan has made mention of Nations living up to their Pledges |
Canada has already deployed DART and supplies last week.
We're at 65 million federal plus the Provincial donations and climbing ..... The USA is no where near the top of the list of donor countries as you would have had us believe Thom. CM "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... OK CM, Talk is Cheap! Time to put up! Put up or renege! The US, Australia, and Japan have been on sight, getting supplies to the needy victims. Finally after some 12 days the UN is going to join in. Annan has made mention of Nations living up to their Pledges |
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wrote in message http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...homework_abuse That boy is a whining lil' pussy! He'll grow up to be a homo!! **** sake Man.... my old man laid me out with a brick at twenty paces when I didn't stop running away..... he dropped me like a headshot moose! Tell you what... next time he said "Boy Come Here!"... I didn't even think of running! No sweat... I love my Dad.... I look after him now and we have a great time. You Yankees sound like a bunch of pussys to me! CM |
Brick head numbskull. Bwahahahahah.
dropped like a Head shot mouse. Most us rebels are smart enough to duck when Dads throwing bricks, you just had to keep on your toes when he had a pair of channel locks, or was playing with the cattle prod. Another of his favorates was to grab you and then he would grab the electric fence. Oh for the good ol days Joe |
"Joe" wrote in message Most us rebels are smart enough to duck when Dads throwing bricks, you just had to keep on your toes when he had a pair of channel locks, or was playing with the cattle prod. My old man was a pretty good shot.... he clipped my younger brother on a full run with the lid of a tin garbage can. When I was 10 and argueing that I "needed" a certain fishing rod.... he explained the difference between "need" & "want" by holding my nose and mouth closed so I couldn't breathe... as I was turning blue he calmly explained that while I "needed" air to breathe.... I only "wanted" the fishing rod! That got the point across in a hurry! I remember lipping off my Mom just once..... the next thing I knew I was cartwheeling across the kitchen and when I came to a stop in the pantry his finger was pointed at my face and demanding I apologise.... I was grounded for a week with extra homework. Another of his favorates was to grab you and then he would grab the electric fence. Aw hell we used to con the city boys to **** on the electric fence! Oh for the good ol days They raise wimps today...... and blame the parents for problem kids while not allowing them to disipline their children. CM |
CM,
Fear & Greed are very effective motivation devices but they don't always produce the proper results. This thread demonstrates that.. The "Red cent" mentality hasn't helped a needy cause. The critics have belabored the group that is delivering the most but has let the Greedy Islamic wealthy alone. They are the the slowest to help their own people.Why haven't the US haters noticed this lack of giving from the Moslem World? The US has 39 fixed wing planes and fifty Helo's on sight and busy getting supplies into the hands of the needy. Without the US, Japan and Australia there wouldn't be an Aid Program. I just hope that putting them under the UN doesn't let the worlds Greedy screw up their effort. Ole Thom |
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message This thread demonstrates that.. The "Red cent" mentality hasn't helped a needy cause. Okay Thom... I'll debate this... but you won't like what I have to say. The critics have belabored the group that is delivering the most but has let the Greedy Islamic wealthy alone. They are the the slowest to help their own people.Why haven't the US haters noticed this lack of giving from the Moslem World? Well.... none of the muslim countries laid claim to providing the most aid, nor that any aid would even reach the area without their help. The only nation crowing about their generosity is the USA. It's a common problem with your nation... the need to boast about yourselves! It does nothing to impress anyone of anything except that you are self centered egotists with a terrible lack of confidence and delusional self image. If you are donating help to prove yourself better... than you are no better than the muslims you decry. The US has 39 fixed wing planes and fifty Helo's on sight and busy getting supplies into the hands of the needy. Without the US, Japan and Australia there wouldn't be an Aid Program. I just hope that putting them under the UN doesn't let the worlds Greedy screw up their effort. The above is pure unfettered balderdash Thom.... Canada hired the Russians to deliver their supplies because they have a much bigger plane than you guys have. As did most of the other countries. The Russians have been going non stop on deliveries and raking in the cash because of it. Japan has never nor would they ever lay claim to "Without the US, Japan and Australia there wouldn't be an Aid Program."... neither would Australia. Who the **** do you guys think you are?? You can't seriously believe what you just posted can you... you must have a better intellect than that?!! How truly small and petty you behave while claiming to be large and magnaimous. While I don't doubt you are as a nation mobilizing equipment tp help... it cheapens the act to a whore-like status to brag about what you are doing.... and claiming you are doing more than anyone else. It's disgusting and typical of American behaviour in general. This is why you are so disliked on a global basis. Nobody likes a loud mouth rich prick rubbing their wealth and abilities into the faces of people who are not as fortunate. This is how the USA is viewed... and despite your claims to care less... your words indicate that you want to be loved and have adulation heaped upon you. The day that the USA starts acting like a nice guy and quits bragging about themselves is the day world opinion will change... until then you are nothing more than a rich village bully. Nobody really likes your nation right now... but many are "nice" to you, just to avoid the repercussions of your nation's petulant self gratification and the mistaken belief that at the moment you have lots of friends. Canada has been a friend of the USA, it's not been a pleasant position to be in. Wake Up Thom..... CM |
"Overproof" wrote The only nation crowing about their generosity is the USA. It's a common problem with your nation... the need to boast about Who exactly is doing all this crowing and boasting? How truly small and petty you behave while claiming to be large and magnaimous. and claiming? cheapens the act to a whore-like status to brag about what you are doing.... and braging? Scotty |
CM,
Go back to the beginning of this thread and tell me any US citizen doesn't have the right to answer all the half ass criticism? Should we not answer the critics or would it make you happier to just take your cheap shots without response? No thank you. When our response turn out to be factual, you call it Bragging. So be it! We may be THE super power but damn it, Mooron, we also have our Pride. Pride that was attacked before we even had a chance to mobilize, which we did. BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE.!!! Your country hired ONE plane. We have dozens. DOZENS, CM!! We are moving more AID and that's a fact. It is bragging it is a factual answer to the early criticism. If you can stand it. Screw you and the rest of the Critics, The AID PROGRAM still needs a lot but Tokenism won't help. Once again we'll lead the way. Our successes truly outnumber failures. If you don't want to hear the truth, then don't point Lies at us. Slap us and you'll get slapped back Sorry LOSER, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Our AID to the victims is our answer to the Critics, and you know it Proud to be an American Ole Thom |
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... CM, Go back to the beginning of this thread and tell me any US citizen doesn't have the right to answer all the half ass criticism? Ahem..... it was an American that started this whole thing Thom..... bragging once again about how you guys were leading donations... until the truth of the matter was posted. You were no where near the top ten... pathetic! Should we not answer the critics or would it make you happier to just take your cheap shots without response? No thank you. Nobody leveled any critique that I saw until youse guys started shooting off your yaps about how great you all were..... yet again. When our response turn out to be factual, you call it Bragging. So be it! We may be THE super power but damn it, Mooron, we also have our Pride. Pride that was attacked before we even had a chance to mobilize, which we did. BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE.!!! No it's not "better than anyone else" Thom... not by a long shot. Your country hired ONE plane. We have dozens. DOZENS, CM!! We are moving more AID and that's a fact. It is bragging it is a factual answer to the early criticism. There you go again... it's all about you isn't it .... screw the victims as long as you guys lead the stats.. right?! If you can stand it. Screw you and the rest of the Critics, Bite Me... The AID PROGRAM still needs a lot but Tokenism won't help. Once again we'll lead the way. Our successes truly outnumber failures. No they don't Thom... your nations failures far surpass any sucesses.... and you are most definitaly NOT leading the way Bucko! If you don't want to hear the truth, then don't point Lies at us. Slap us and you'll get slapped back Truth provided by a narrow, self centered and totally ignorant point of view... maybe. You start bragging around me and be prepared to be taken down a notch or two. Deal with That! Sorry LOSER, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Our AID to the victims is our answer to the Critics, and you know it I haven't lost a damn thing Thom.... and the aid you lay claim to as leading the way with was in fact boosted by a kick in the ass when you found out you weren't the at the top of the donators list as you beaked off about being. Proud to be an American I don't have to write down that I'm proud to be a Canadian..... too bad you feel it's required to repeat this... as do most Americans... ad nauseum. CM |
CM,
Your replies are losing a lot of air. I think you know it. The title of the first post; More Shame to the USA. Should an American ignore that? Does it make a difference that the Critic is an American? Nutsy's first report was that Diego Garcia was Wiped Out. A bold face LIE. Pretty much like the rest of your replies. Simple denials without any proof and damn little truth. This will be my last post on this issue, I hope. There never was any SHAME!! The Shame was always in the Critics small minded outlook. I'm truly sorry to say, You Fall into that group. Keep an open mind and see where the most effective Aid is going and who it is being supplied by. Not pledges but actual Aid to the victims. I hope there will be help but I do wonder. Ole Thom |
Got to go CM,
I'm in the midst of a very tough struggle and not doing to well; Sea Hawks are down to St, Louis Rams in the first play-off game Ole Thom |
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Got to go CM, I'm in the midst of a very tough struggle and not doing to well; Sea Hawks are down to St, Louis Rams in the first play-off game Ole Thom You lost. Engram should have caught that last pass. John Cairns |
Ain't that the Bitch about Freedom of Speech Thom?
You'd hardly know it... but I really do like Americans. I learned all about self confidence and attribute my current behavioral characteristics to American friends I had in my teens. I was at that time amazed at the average American's confidence in themselves, willingness to stand ground and generosity when required. I was in awe of the arrogance and amazed at their kindness. So.... don't feel too badly... as it was indeed your influence that helped me to achieve my current state of character. This no doubt has a bearing on why I feel so at ease taking you Yankees & Crackers to task if I think you are shoveling me a line.... ;-D CM "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... CM, Your replies are losing a lot of air. I think you know it. The title of the first post; More Shame to the USA. Should an American ignore that? Does it make a difference that the Critic is an American? Nutsy's first report was that Diego Garcia was Wiped Out. A bold face LIE. Pretty much like the rest of your replies. Simple denials without any proof and damn little truth. This will be my last post on this issue, I hope. There never was any SHAME!! The Shame was always in the Critics small minded outlook. I'm truly sorry to say, You Fall into that group. Keep an open mind and see where the most effective Aid is going and who it is being supplied by. Not pledges but actual Aid to the victims. I hope there will be help but I do wonder. Ole Thom |
"John Cairns" wrote
Sea Hawks are down to St, Louis Rams in the first play-off game Ole Thom You lost. Engram should have caught that last pass. Where the receivers eating pop corn on the side lines? SV |
Todd Pinkston says "maybe the lights were in Engram's eyes (too)."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1952671 Scout "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... "John Cairns" wrote Sea Hawks are down to St, Louis Rams in the first play-off game Ole Thom You lost. Engram should have caught that last pass. Where the receivers eating pop corn on the side lines? SV |
Thom,
you're still eligible to still be an Eagles fan ;o) Scout "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Got to go CM, I'm in the midst of a very tough struggle and not doing to well; Sea Hawks are down to St, Louis Rams in the first play-off game Ole Thom |
Hey Scout,
I have a very, rabid Eagle fan right here in my Son. He is still loyal the the Eagles. By the way, He just had his house re-done for his "Dish" and his football subscription. He had a 48" projection TV but dropped back to a 42" wall mount screen with the whole house converted to digital. Not a wire showing. The ability to get the Philly Eagles played a large part in getting the conversion. So yes, there will be Eagle fans out here watching and eating Shoo-Fly Pie. Ole Thom P/S for sailing content, for our critic, it is in two sailors talking football together. |
"Scout" wrote in message ... Thom, you're still eligible to still be an Eagles fan ;o) Scout You calling Thom a loser? That's not very nice, Scout. Steelers = 15 -1 Scotty |
Scot,
You're right. I'll be a Steeler fan if they play the Eagles but you leave me wondering about your football knowledge; How can any football score be 15 to 1? Ole Thom |
I'll need the coordinates! : )
Scout "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Hey Scout, I have a very, rabid Eagle fan right here in my Son. He is still loyal the the Eagles. By the way, He just had his house re-done for his "Dish" and his football subscription. He had a 48" projection TV but dropped back to a 42" wall mount screen with the whole house converted to digital. Not a wire showing. The ability to get the Philly Eagles played a large part in getting the conversion. So yes, there will be Eagle fans out here watching and eating Shoo-Fly Pie. Ole Thom P/S for sailing content, for our critic, it is in two sailors talking football together. |
Overproof wrote:
So.... don't feel too badly... as it was indeed your influence that helped me to achieve my current state of character. This no doubt has a bearing on why I feel so at ease taking you Yankees & Crackers to task if I think you are shoveling me a line.... ;-D You never did take a look at the cranes & ift booms supported at 25% or less of their length, though. Since that thread, I've been looking around, and it's amazingly common. DSK |
Thom Stewart wrote:
How can any football score be 15 to 1? 15 is easy, several combinations reulst in 15. But I don't think there is a score of 1, the lowest scoring play I know of is a touchback and that's for 2. I bet Bart knows, though ;) DSK |
Yes I did..... and had to use hot sauce to eat that particular crow... but
that was not the point was it.... the point was that a greater load could be handled by support at the end of the boom... and if you looked at all the really big cranes this was indeed the case. Seems you skipped out on eating your portion of crow... as usual. Don't fret Doug.... one day you'll be confident enough to admit when you are wrong and finally be able to achieve the pinnacle of arrogance..... like I have! :-D CM "DSK" wrote in message You never did take a look at the cranes & ift booms supported at 25% or less of their length, though. Since that thread, I've been looking around, and it's amazingly common. DSK |
Thom, the Steelers are 15 and 1. That's their record for this year.
The best in the NFL. The best in the world! Scotty BTW, finally saw your pooch pic, cute dog. "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Scot, You're right. I'll be a Steeler fan if they play the Eagles but you leave me wondering about your football knowledge; How can any football score be 15 to 1? Ole Thom |
"Overproof" wrote in message news:uevEd.61570$nN6.47619@edtnps84... Yes I did..... and had to use hot sauce to eat that particular crow... Ahhh tes, Crow ala USA, stuffed with Plowville baloney and smothered with NC hickory sauce. but that was not the point was it.... Yes it was. |
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... "Overproof" wrote in message news:uevEd.61570$nN6.47619@edtnps84... Yes I did..... and had to use hot sauce to eat that particular crow... Ahhh tes, Crow ala USA, stuffed with Plowville baloney and smothered with NC hickory sauce. but that was not the point was it.... Yes it was. It was most certainly NOT!! CM |
"Overproof" wrote in message news:%xyEd.61814$nN6.32991@edtnps84... "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... "Overproof" wrote in message news:uevEd.61570$nN6.47619@edtnps84... Yes I did..... and had to use hot sauce to eat that particular crow... Ahhh tes, Crow ala USA, stuffed with Plowville baloney and smothered with NC hickory sauce. but that was not the point was it.... Yes it was. It was most certainly NOT!! You are a glutton for punishment. SV |
Scot,
15-1;---- That explains it! Thank and pardon me for screwing up Ole Thom |
Overproof wrote:
Don't fret Doug.... one day you'll be confident enough to admit when you are wrong and finally be able to achieve the pinnacle of arrogance..... like I have! :-D Oh, I admit when I'm wrong. It just doesn't happen all that often. And why would I want to scale the peaks of arrogance, when I'm already looking down on that from a loftier mountain top? DSK |
Scotty,
How did you get to see the picture? I can't get into my web page with my addy, I have to go by way of my Scrapebook. Another Web problem for the Ole Man to work on Ole Thom |
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... "Overproof" wrote in message news:%xyEd.61814$nN6.32991@edtnps84... "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... "Overproof" wrote in message news:uevEd.61570$nN6.47619@edtnps84... Yes I did..... and had to use hot sauce to eat that particular crow... Ahhh tes, Crow ala USA, stuffed with Plowville baloney and smothered with NC hickory sauce. but that was not the point was it.... Yes it was. It was most certainly NOT!! You are a glutton for punishment. I deny that ........ and although I admit that Doug resembled a person running down a deserted beach squeezing farts out of dead seagulls throughout the whole debate.... you busied yourself by cooking up some mighty fine Crow. CM |
"DSK" wrote in message ... Overproof wrote: Don't fret Doug.... one day you'll be confident enough to admit when you are wrong and finally be able to achieve the pinnacle of arrogance..... like I have! :-D Oh, I admit when I'm wrong. It just doesn't happen all that often. And why would I want to scale the peaks of arrogance, when I'm already looking down on that from a loftier mountain top? Mount Assumption? CM |
Steve (Pony Expressless) sent them to me.
Scotty "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Scotty, How did you get to see the picture? I can't get into my web page with my addy, I have to go by way of my Scrapebook. Another Web problem for the Ole Man to work on Ole Thom |
"Overproof" wrote You are a glutton for punishment. I deny that ........ and although I admit that Doug resembled a person running down a deserted beach squeezing farts out of dead seagulls throughout the whole debate.... you busied yourself by cooking up some mighty fine Crow. It's a dish I've learned to prepare with the utmost of patience and skill so that the eater barely recognizes the meat, yet he somehow knows it's crow.. SV |
Overproof wrote:
Mount Assumption? Dammit do you have to gay up every thread? DSK |
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