|
"katysails" wrote in message Ripley's Believe It or Not? Amazing Adventures? Fact or Fiction? Yes. Max |
OzOne wrote in message It does indeed. 'The Sled' is actually not doing Hobart this year, I believe she's racing North instead but many of her crew will go south in other yachts. Built as a downwind flyer, hence the Bobsled name, when she was launched she had a small problem with her keel wich caused the entire boat to literally buzz when surfing over 25kts....very uncomfortable. Exciting as that sounds, I'm too big a coward to ever consider the Hobart, not that anyone would ever ask me to crew it. But it would be fun to experience 25kts. on a monohull. Just once. Max |
OzOne wrote in message ... Only thing I see is the long long fetch and shallow areas that would produce some really scary waves.... Indeed. plus the fact that it's always so frickin cold! It certainly is when the possibility of really big waves is at hand. Mostly between November and March. Summer can be hot, sultry, and absolutely calm. We once crossed Lake Michigan during the summer "doldrums." I phoned my father from what was as close to the exact center of the lake as possible, and told him that I typically see bigger waves in my bathtub. It was dead flat, hazy, and the damn black flies were biting everything in sight, including our poor pup. Miserable. And hard to believe that at that very place some waves of more than 50' have existed and probably will again. Max |
Oh come on... 25kts??? That's a normal summer day out here.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Maxprop" wrote in message link.net... OzOne wrote in message It does indeed. 'The Sled' is actually not doing Hobart this year, I believe she's racing North instead but many of her crew will go south in other yachts. Built as a downwind flyer, hence the Bobsled name, when she was launched she had a small problem with her keel wich caused the entire boat to literally buzz when surfing over 25kts....very uncomfortable. Exciting as that sounds, I'm too big a coward to ever consider the Hobart, not that anyone would ever ask me to crew it. But it would be fun to experience 25kts. on a monohull. Just once. Max |
Like I said, a normal day in traffic. :-}
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com wrote in message ... On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:04:03 -0800, "JG" wrote: Oh come on... 25kts??? That's a normal summer day out here. I think he means boat speed, Jon. 8^) BB |
Capt. Neal® wrote:
"Maxprop" wrote in message nk.net... Actually they do have tides, albiet almost imperceptible. Near the equator the oceans have very little tide. So what? Bwahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahah! Lord but you are ignorant. What makes you think there is very little tide near the Equator? Simple physics proves how stupid your statement really is. The pull of gravity from the Moon and Sun raises the tides. The pull is the even greater at the Equator than at higher latitudes because the Earth surface at the Equator is closer to the Moon and Sun than the higher latitudes. Hence gravity is slightly stronger there, hence the tides are actually higher. Some sailor you are! Go stand in the corner. So, the moon stays over the equator in your universe? Interesting. For the rest of us, the Moon's orbit is inclined to the equator by 28 degrees so the moon travels "up and down" from the equator every month. When the Moon is a its highest declination, we have our largest tides in the mid-latitudes. Since the Moon is roughly over one of the tropics, this is called a "tropic tide." When the Moon is over the equator, we have smaller tides at mid-latitudes; these are called equatorial tides. (These affects have to be added into the Spring and Neap tides caused by the relative angle of the sun and moon to get an almost full picture.) The tides at the equator are also reduced by the fact that they actually lag the moon by 6 hours. This is caused by the fact that the "tidal wave" cannot move fast enough through the ocean to keep up. This s called "tidal lag" and the tides at low latitudes are called "indirect tides," while at high latitudes they are "direct tides." Actually, the tides at any location are likely dominated by local affects. |
Jeff Morris wrote: The tides at the equator are also reduced by the fact that they actually lag the moon by 6 hours. This is caused by the fact that the "tidal wave" cannot move fast enough through the ocean to keep up. Care to explain that? Cheers ------------ And now a word from our sponsor ---------------------- For a quality mail server, try SurgeMail, easy to install, fast, efficient and reliable. Run a million users on a standard PC running NT or Unix without running out of power, use the best! ---- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_surgemail.htm ---- |
Nav wrote:
Jeff Morris wrote: The tides at the equator are also reduced by the fact that they actually lag the moon by 6 hours. This is caused by the fact that the "tidal wave" cannot move fast enough through the ocean to keep up. Care to explain that? One explanation I've seen is that the average depth of the ocean does not allow the wave to propagate fast enough at the Equator. http://www.marktovey.co.uk/tidesfull.html#Q16 I've also seen it described in term of the "natural resonance" of the ocean at the equator, which is 30 hours, while the Moon's rotation is a bit over 12 hours, but I'm sure this comes down to the same thing. What I haven't seen described in detail is exactly how much this affect reduces the tides. |
Hey Booby, Time to change the baby's diaper. Bwahahahhahahahhahahahahh! CN wrote in message ... . Just look at my banana boom if you need more proof! |
Neal is into diapers.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Hey Booby, Time to change the baby's diaper. Bwahahahhahahahhahahahahh! CN wrote in message ... . Just look at my banana boom if you need more proof! |
Have you ever had 1/2" hail driven at you at 35 mph? I thought not...now go
take a nap and restore yourself... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... "katysails" wrote in message ... The meteorology is the thing....it is so changeable that it is difficult to get an accurate forecast...the Great Lakes region is known by NOAA to have some of the most challenging meteorological problems in the world....there is one section of Lake Michigan, the Little Pointe Sable area, that defies forecasting...the rest of the lake can be perking right along in a normal fashion and you get within a mile of this area and all hell breaks lose...the topography of the land does a lot to make this happen, as does the corresponding topography over in WI....confused water, freaky wind patterns...our own little "rounding the Horn"...add to that the windstorms that we get off the great plains and the humidity levels that produce huge convection storms, it can be a real picnic out there...one year we were toodling along quite happily and all of a sudden this black roll cloud appeared in the west...there had been no forecast of any violent frontal movements and the sun had been shining. We ran for our foulies and reduced sail. Ever been pelted by 1/2 inch hail? Was not a fun experience....and within 10 minutes of winds leaping from a lovely 10 to 35 ...and then it was over....summer squall... Oh my! Thirty-five mile per hour winds! Surely winds such as that will strip the flesh from one's bones. Bwahahahhahahahhhahhhaha aha ha hahh ahah ah hah ah ha ha hah ha ha hh aahahhahah ah hah aah ! C'mon, Katy. Thirty-five mph winds are fair winds for us Trade Wind sailors. Learn how to reef your sails quickly and carry on. CN |
It took more time for you to write that then you sailed all year...
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... I've got more time in the Gulf Stream than you have in your boat. Anyone familiar with the Gulf Stream knows full well that the seas there grow to stupendous proportions when the wind is against the current. I've sailed in waves as large as those shown in some of those pictures and had no trouble controlling my yacht. It's all about a balanced sail plan and the proper square footage of sail for the wind conditions. Your statements prove to me that you NEVER have sailed in large seas because if you had you would know that most of the hype about them is just hype. You would also know that the ride in a small, properly sailed yacht in the 27-30 foot range is very much more comfortable than the motion on larger motor vessels that pitch, roll and yaw in an almost uncontrollable manner. Pitching in a small vessel such as mine is worse in a heavy chop in shallow water than it is in large seas the period of which is long enough that pitching is barely noticed. In heavy winds and seas I do not attempt to go to weather. I'm not stupid so I go off the wind enough to make things as comfortable as possible. Screaming into the trough is stupid and unnecessary. Why do you do it? I do not. It is easy to sail across the wind so the trough comes at your vessel at an oblique enough angle to eliminate the danger of a broach. Another thing, again, is that balanced sail plan. Any time I see a monohull sloop attempting to sail under mainsail alone like the photo that was posted I quickly understand that the skipper of that vessel has forgotten how to balance the helm no matter how great a reputation he or his vessel might enjoy. You cannot possibly look at a picture of a vessel being tossed sideways because it cannot be sailed because of an unbalanced sail plan and conclude anything other than the captain and crew is either not paying attention or they are just plain lazy and inept. Those are the facts. I could care less if you agree with them or not. You are an amateur compared to me. Anybody who uses Maxprop for a name is no sailor. Go motor up and down the Intracoastal with Mr. King and the other trawler sailors. CN "Maxprop" wrote in message ink.net... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message Not so! Those huge waves have little effect upon a small yacht under a reasonable press of sail to keep her stable. This statement clearly demonstrates that you've never been in much of a seaway in a small vessel, despite what you claim. Roll, controlled by sail pressure, has very little to do with it. Pitch is the problem. It's like riding a roller coaster--if one isn't belted in to a coaster, the odds of flying out of the car are good. Same with a small vessel cresting waves and then plummeting into the trough of steep, tall waves. And if the sea is confused, no amount of wind pressure on the sails will stop a vessel from rolling violently as well. Add that to the roller coaster effect and you've got your basic Maytag dryer set on high. Of course, in those conditions, the yacht will be sailing off the wind so the period of the waves becomes longer. The vessel will be sailing off the wind only if she is not attempting to claw off and away from a lee shore. Of course then the issue of broaching comes to the fore. Most yachts do best when running with steep waves while towing lines or a sea anchor. Screaming into a trough on the diagonal is a quick and dirty recipe for a broach. The properly sailed small yacht will only be bothered but the breakers atop those huge waves. LOL. You really haven't been there, have you? Those breakers tend to slosh green water into the cockpit, I have found. One must always keep the washboard in and battened down. Those idiot motorvessels seem to be pounding straight into the waves which seems stupid to me. Why don't they fall off a bit and take the waves diagonally. They would have a smoother ride and might even be able to make some headway. Primarily because steeply-pitched waves can roll a planing craft over on its beam ends just after cresting a steep wave, especially if the boat is either relatively short in length or narrow of beam though longer. Of course running with the sea or heading into it can pitchpole a small planing vessel as well. Frankly big, steep waves are no place to be in a smallish powerboat. Max |
Seasonal Affective Disorder got you down?
I am going sailing Christmas day. Are You? CN "katysails" wrote in message ... It took more time for you to write that then you sailed all year... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... I've got more time in the Gulf Stream than you have in your boat. Anyone familiar with the Gulf Stream knows full well that the seas there grow to stupendous proportions when the wind is against the current. I've sailed in waves as large as those shown in some of those pictures and had no trouble controlling my yacht. It's all about a balanced sail plan and the proper square footage of sail for the wind conditions. Your statements prove to me that you NEVER have sailed in large seas because if you had you would know that most of the hype about them is just hype. You would also know that the ride in a small, properly sailed yacht in the 27-30 foot range is very much more comfortable than the motion on larger motor vessels that pitch, roll and yaw in an almost uncontrollable manner. Pitching in a small vessel such as mine is worse in a heavy chop in shallow water than it is in large seas the period of which is long enough that pitching is barely noticed. In heavy winds and seas I do not attempt to go to weather. I'm not stupid so I go off the wind enough to make things as comfortable as possible. Screaming into the trough is stupid and unnecessary. Why do you do it? I do not. It is easy to sail across the wind so the trough comes at your vessel at an oblique enough angle to eliminate the danger of a broach. Another thing, again, is that balanced sail plan. Any time I see a monohull sloop attempting to sail under mainsail alone like the photo that was posted I quickly understand that the skipper of that vessel has forgotten how to balance the helm no matter how great a reputation he or his vessel might enjoy. You cannot possibly look at a picture of a vessel being tossed sideways because it cannot be sailed because of an unbalanced sail plan and conclude anything other than the captain and crew is either not paying attention or they are just plain lazy and inept. Those are the facts. I could care less if you agree with them or not. You are an amateur compared to me. Anybody who uses Maxprop for a name is no sailor. Go motor up and down the Intracoastal with Mr. King and the other trawler sailors. CN "Maxprop" wrote in message ink.net... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message Not so! Those huge waves have little effect upon a small yacht under a reasonable press of sail to keep her stable. This statement clearly demonstrates that you've never been in much of a seaway in a small vessel, despite what you claim. Roll, controlled by sail pressure, has very little to do with it. Pitch is the problem. It's like riding a roller coaster--if one isn't belted in to a coaster, the odds of flying out of the car are good. Same with a small vessel cresting waves and then plummeting into the trough of steep, tall waves. And if the sea is confused, no amount of wind pressure on the sails will stop a vessel from rolling violently as well. Add that to the roller coaster effect and you've got your basic Maytag dryer set on high. Of course, in those conditions, the yacht will be sailing off the wind so the period of the waves becomes longer. The vessel will be sailing off the wind only if she is not attempting to claw off and away from a lee shore. Of course then the issue of broaching comes to the fore. Most yachts do best when running with steep waves while towing lines or a sea anchor. Screaming into a trough on the diagonal is a quick and dirty recipe for a broach. The properly sailed small yacht will only be bothered but the breakers atop those huge waves. LOL. You really haven't been there, have you? Those breakers tend to slosh green water into the cockpit, I have found. One must always keep the washboard in and battened down. Those idiot motorvessels seem to be pounding straight into the waves which seems stupid to me. Why don't they fall off a bit and take the waves diagonally. They would have a smoother ride and might even be able to make some headway. Primarily because steeply-pitched waves can roll a planing craft over on its beam ends just after cresting a steep wave, especially if the boat is either relatively short in length or narrow of beam though longer. Of course running with the sea or heading into it can pitchpole a small planing vessel as well. Frankly big, steep waves are no place to be in a smallish powerboat. Max |
From an elementary school science site:
http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q2792.html "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... "Maxprop" wrote in message nk.net... Actually they do have tides, albiet almost imperceptible. Near the equator the oceans have very little tide. So what? Bwahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahah! Lord but you are ignorant. What makes you think there is very little tide near the Equator? Simple physics proves how stupid your statement really is. The pull of gravity from the Moon and Sun raises the tides. The pull is the even greater at the Equator than at higher latitudes because the Earth surface at the Equator is closer to the Moon and Sun than the higher latitudes. Hence gravity is slightly stronger there, hence the tides are actually higher. Some sailor you are! Go stand in the corner. CN |
Overly simplified. As I said the Sun also creates tides.
CN "katysails" wrote in message ... From an elementary school science site: http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q2792.html "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... "Maxprop" wrote in message nk.net... Actually they do have tides, albiet almost imperceptible. Near the equator the oceans have very little tide. So what? Bwahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahah! Lord but you are ignorant. What makes you think there is very little tide near the Equator? Simple physics proves how stupid your statement really is. The pull of gravity from the Moon and Sun raises the tides. The pull is the even greater at the Equator than at higher latitudes because the Earth surface at the Equator is closer to the Moon and Sun than the higher latitudes. Hence gravity is slightly stronger there, hence the tides are actually higher. Some sailor you are! Go stand in the corner. CN |
Jeff Morris wrote: Nav wrote: Jeff Morris wrote: The tides at the equator are also reduced by the fact that they actually lag the moon by 6 hours. This is caused by the fact that the "tidal wave" cannot move fast enough through the ocean to keep up. Care to explain that? One explanation I've seen is that the average depth of the ocean does not allow the wave to propagate fast enough at the Equator. http://www.marktovey.co.uk/tidesfull.html#Q16 I've also seen it described in term of the "natural resonance" of the ocean at the equator, which is 30 hours, while the Moon's rotation is a bit over 12 hours, but I'm sure this comes down to the same thing. What I haven't seen described in detail is exactly how much this affect reduces the tides. Exactly and it does -a lot I think (although I've not done/seen any maths on this). The wavelength of the tidal resosnance is 1/2 the earth. For a trochoidal wave this would imply a huge natural crest - peak depth. The oceans are simnply not deep enough to allow full development of such a wave (IMHO) of course. This impedes the propagation of the wave (as do the continents). Cheers |
I'll be sailing offshore I hope. You?
Cheers Capt. Neal® wrote: Seasonal Affective Disorder got you down? I am going sailing Christmas day. Are You? CN "katysails" wrote in message ... It took more time for you to write that then you sailed all year... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... I've got more time in the Gulf Stream than you have in your boat. Anyone familiar with the Gulf Stream knows full well that the seas there grow to stupendous proportions when the wind is against the current. I've sailed in waves as large as those shown in some of those pictures and had no trouble controlling my yacht. It's all about a balanced sail plan and the proper square footage of sail for the wind conditions. Your statements prove to me that you NEVER have sailed in large seas because if you had you would know that most of the hype about them is just hype. You would also know that the ride in a small, properly sailed yacht in the 27-30 foot range is very much more comfortable than the motion on larger motor vessels that pitch, roll and yaw in an almost uncontrollable manner. Pitching in a small vessel such as mine is worse in a heavy chop in shallow water than it is in large seas the period of which is long enough that pitching is barely noticed. In heavy winds and seas I do not attempt to go to weather. I'm not stupid so I go off the wind enough to make things as comfortable as possible. Screaming into the trough is stupid and unnecessary. Why do you do it? I do not. It is easy to sail across the wind so the trough comes at your vessel at an oblique enough angle to eliminate the danger of a broach. Another thing, again, is that balanced sail plan. Any time I see a monohull sloop attempting to sail under mainsail alone like the photo that was posted I quickly understand that the skipper of that vessel has forgotten how to balance the helm no matter how great a reputation he or his vessel might enjoy. You cannot possibly look at a picture of a vessel being tossed sideways because it cannot be sailed because of an unbalanced sail plan and conclude anything other than the captain and crew is either not paying attention or they are just plain lazy and inept. Those are the facts. I could care less if you agree with them or not. You are an amateur compared to me. Anybody who uses Maxprop for a name is no sailor. Go motor up and down the Intracoastal with Mr. King and the other trawler sailors. CN "Maxprop" wrote in message thlink.net... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message Not so! Those huge waves have little effect upon a small yacht under a reasonable press of sail to keep her stable. This statement clearly demonstrates that you've never been in much of a seaway in a small vessel, despite what you claim. Roll, controlled by sail pressure, has very little to do with it. Pitch is the problem. It's like riding a roller coaster--if one isn't belted in to a coaster, the odds of flying out of the car are good. Same with a small vessel cresting waves and then plummeting into the trough of steep, tall waves. And if the sea is confused, no amount of wind pressure on the sails will stop a vessel from rolling violently as well. Add that to the roller coaster effect and you've got your basic Maytag dryer set on high. Of course, in those conditions, the yacht will be sailing off the wind so the period of the waves becomes longer. The vessel will be sailing off the wind only if she is not attempting to claw off and away from a lee shore. Of course then the issue of broaching comes to the fore. Most yachts do best when running with steep waves while towing lines or a sea anchor. Screaming into a trough on the diagonal is a quick and dirty recipe for a broach. The properly sailed small yacht will only be bothered but the breakers atop those huge waves. LOL. You really haven't been there, have you? Those breakers tend to slosh green water into the cockpit, I have found. One must always keep the washboard in and battened down. Those idiot motorvessels seem to be pounding straight into the waves which seems stupid to me. Why don't they fall off a bit and take the waves diagonally. They would have a smoother ride and might even be able to make some headway. Primarily because steeply-pitched waves can roll a planing craft over on its beam ends just after cresting a steep wave, especially if the boat is either relatively short in length or narrow of beam though longer. Of course running with the sea or heading into it can pitchpole a small planing vessel as well. Frankly big, steep waves are no place to be in a smallish powerboat. Max |
Nope...I'm gonna have fun with my granddaughters....I'm going to watch them
open presents and have a good time and be very thankful that they are alive....My Christmas will be much better than yours. "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Seasonal Affective Disorder got you down? I am going sailing Christmas day. Are You? CN "katysails" wrote in message ... It took more time for you to write that then you sailed all year... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... I've got more time in the Gulf Stream than you have in your boat. Anyone familiar with the Gulf Stream knows full well that the seas there grow to stupendous proportions when the wind is against the current. I've sailed in waves as large as those shown in some of those pictures and had no trouble controlling my yacht. It's all about a balanced sail plan and the proper square footage of sail for the wind conditions. Your statements prove to me that you NEVER have sailed in large seas because if you had you would know that most of the hype about them is just hype. You would also know that the ride in a small, properly sailed yacht in the 27-30 foot range is very much more comfortable than the motion on larger motor vessels that pitch, roll and yaw in an almost uncontrollable manner. Pitching in a small vessel such as mine is worse in a heavy chop in shallow water than it is in large seas the period of which is long enough that pitching is barely noticed. In heavy winds and seas I do not attempt to go to weather. I'm not stupid so I go off the wind enough to make things as comfortable as possible. Screaming into the trough is stupid and unnecessary. Why do you do it? I do not. It is easy to sail across the wind so the trough comes at your vessel at an oblique enough angle to eliminate the danger of a broach. Another thing, again, is that balanced sail plan. Any time I see a monohull sloop attempting to sail under mainsail alone like the photo that was posted I quickly understand that the skipper of that vessel has forgotten how to balance the helm no matter how great a reputation he or his vessel might enjoy. You cannot possibly look at a picture of a vessel being tossed sideways because it cannot be sailed because of an unbalanced sail plan and conclude anything other than the captain and crew is either not paying attention or they are just plain lazy and inept. Those are the facts. I could care less if you agree with them or not. You are an amateur compared to me. Anybody who uses Maxprop for a name is no sailor. Go motor up and down the Intracoastal with Mr. King and the other trawler sailors. CN "Maxprop" wrote in message ink.net... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message Not so! Those huge waves have little effect upon a small yacht under a reasonable press of sail to keep her stable. This statement clearly demonstrates that you've never been in much of a seaway in a small vessel, despite what you claim. Roll, controlled by sail pressure, has very little to do with it. Pitch is the problem. It's like riding a roller coaster--if one isn't belted in to a coaster, the odds of flying out of the car are good. Same with a small vessel cresting waves and then plummeting into the trough of steep, tall waves. And if the sea is confused, no amount of wind pressure on the sails will stop a vessel from rolling violently as well. Add that to the roller coaster effect and you've got your basic Maytag dryer set on high. Of course, in those conditions, the yacht will be sailing off the wind so the period of the waves becomes longer. The vessel will be sailing off the wind only if she is not attempting to claw off and away from a lee shore. Of course then the issue of broaching comes to the fore. Most yachts do best when running with steep waves while towing lines or a sea anchor. Screaming into a trough on the diagonal is a quick and dirty recipe for a broach. The properly sailed small yacht will only be bothered but the breakers atop those huge waves. LOL. You really haven't been there, have you? Those breakers tend to slosh green water into the cockpit, I have found. One must always keep the washboard in and battened down. Those idiot motorvessels seem to be pounding straight into the waves which seems stupid to me. Why don't they fall off a bit and take the waves diagonally. They would have a smoother ride and might even be able to make some headway. Primarily because steeply-pitched waves can roll a planing craft over on its beam ends just after cresting a steep wave, especially if the boat is either relatively short in length or narrow of beam though longer. Of course running with the sea or heading into it can pitchpole a small planing vessel as well. Frankly big, steep waves are no place to be in a smallish powerboat. Max |
Depends on the weather were I go. CN "Nav" wrote in message ... I'll be sailing offshore I hope. You? Cheers Capt. Neal® wrote: Seasonal Affective Disorder got you down? I am going sailing Christmas day. Are You? CN "katysails" wrote in message ... It took more time for you to write that then you sailed all year... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... I've got more time in the Gulf Stream than you have in your boat. Anyone familiar with the Gulf Stream knows full well that the seas there grow to stupendous proportions when the wind is against the current. I've sailed in waves as large as those shown in some of those pictures and had no trouble controlling my yacht. It's all about a balanced sail plan and the proper square footage of sail for the wind conditions. Your statements prove to me that you NEVER have sailed in large seas because if you had you would know that most of the hype about them is just hype. You would also know that the ride in a small, properly sailed yacht in the 27-30 foot range is very much more comfortable than the motion on larger motor vessels that pitch, roll and yaw in an almost uncontrollable manner. Pitching in a small vessel such as mine is worse in a heavy chop in shallow water than it is in large seas the period of which is long enough that pitching is barely noticed. In heavy winds and seas I do not attempt to go to weather. I'm not stupid so I go off the wind enough to make things as comfortable as possible. Screaming into the trough is stupid and unnecessary. Why do you do it? I do not. It is easy to sail across the wind so the trough comes at your vessel at an oblique enough angle to eliminate the danger of a broach. Another thing, again, is that balanced sail plan. Any time I see a monohull sloop attempting to sail under mainsail alone like the photo that was posted I quickly understand that the skipper of that vessel has forgotten how to balance the helm no matter how great a reputation he or his vessel might enjoy. You cannot possibly look at a picture of a vessel being tossed sideways because it cannot be sailed because of an unbalanced sail plan and conclude anything other than the captain and crew is either not paying attention or they are just plain lazy and inept. Those are the facts. I could care less if you agree with them or not. You are an amateur compared to me. Anybody who uses Maxprop for a name is no sailor. Go motor up and down the Intracoastal with Mr. King and the other trawler sailors. CN "Maxprop" wrote in message thlink.net... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message Not so! Those huge waves have little effect upon a small yacht under a reasonable press of sail to keep her stable. This statement clearly demonstrates that you've never been in much of a seaway in a small vessel, despite what you claim. Roll, controlled by sail pressure, has very little to do with it. Pitch is the problem. It's like riding a roller coaster--if one isn't belted in to a coaster, the odds of flying out of the car are good. Same with a small vessel cresting waves and then plummeting into the trough of steep, tall waves. And if the sea is confused, no amount of wind pressure on the sails will stop a vessel from rolling violently as well. Add that to the roller coaster effect and you've got your basic Maytag dryer set on high. Of course, in those conditions, the yacht will be sailing off the wind so the period of the waves becomes longer. The vessel will be sailing off the wind only if she is not attempting to claw off and away from a lee shore. Of course then the issue of broaching comes to the fore. Most yachts do best when running with steep waves while towing lines or a sea anchor. Screaming into a trough on the diagonal is a quick and dirty recipe for a broach. The properly sailed small yacht will only be bothered but the breakers atop those huge waves. LOL. You really haven't been there, have you? Those breakers tend to slosh green water into the cockpit, I have found. One must always keep the washboard in and battened down. Those idiot motorvessels seem to be pounding straight into the waves which seems stupid to me. Why don't they fall off a bit and take the waves diagonally. They would have a smoother ride and might even be able to make some headway. Primarily because steeply-pitched waves can roll a planing craft over on its beam ends just after cresting a steep wave, especially if the boat is either relatively short in length or narrow of beam though longer. Of course running with the sea or heading into it can pitchpole a small planing vessel as well. Frankly big, steep waves are no place to be in a smallish powerboat. Max |
Yes, Grandma! Bwahahahhahahhahahahhah!
Give them a hug for me. I don't have any children or grandchildren with whom to enjoy Christmas. Bah, humbug! CN "katysails" wrote in message ... Nope...I'm gonna have fun with my granddaughters....I'm going to watch them open presents and have a good time and be very thankful that they are alive....My Christmas will be much better than yours. "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Seasonal Affective Disorder got you down? I am going sailing Christmas day. Are You? CN "katysails" wrote in message ... It took more time for you to write that then you sailed all year... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... I've got more time in the Gulf Stream than you have in your boat. Anyone familiar with the Gulf Stream knows full well that the seas there grow to stupendous proportions when the wind is against the current. I've sailed in waves as large as those shown in some of those pictures and had no trouble controlling my yacht. It's all about a balanced sail plan and the proper square footage of sail for the wind conditions. Your statements prove to me that you NEVER have sailed in large seas because if you had you would know that most of the hype about them is just hype. You would also know that the ride in a small, properly sailed yacht in the 27-30 foot range is very much more comfortable than the motion on larger motor vessels that pitch, roll and yaw in an almost uncontrollable manner. Pitching in a small vessel such as mine is worse in a heavy chop in shallow water than it is in large seas the period of which is long enough that pitching is barely noticed. In heavy winds and seas I do not attempt to go to weather. I'm not stupid so I go off the wind enough to make things as comfortable as possible. Screaming into the trough is stupid and unnecessary. Why do you do it? I do not. It is easy to sail across the wind so the trough comes at your vessel at an oblique enough angle to eliminate the danger of a broach. Another thing, again, is that balanced sail plan. Any time I see a monohull sloop attempting to sail under mainsail alone like the photo that was posted I quickly understand that the skipper of that vessel has forgotten how to balance the helm no matter how great a reputation he or his vessel might enjoy. You cannot possibly look at a picture of a vessel being tossed sideways because it cannot be sailed because of an unbalanced sail plan and conclude anything other than the captain and crew is either not paying attention or they are just plain lazy and inept. Those are the facts. I could care less if you agree with them or not. You are an amateur compared to me. Anybody who uses Maxprop for a name is no sailor. Go motor up and down the Intracoastal with Mr. King and the other trawler sailors. CN "Maxprop" wrote in message ink.net... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message Not so! Those huge waves have little effect upon a small yacht under a reasonable press of sail to keep her stable. This statement clearly demonstrates that you've never been in much of a seaway in a small vessel, despite what you claim. Roll, controlled by sail pressure, has very little to do with it. Pitch is the problem. It's like riding a roller coaster--if one isn't belted in to a coaster, the odds of flying out of the car are good. Same with a small vessel cresting waves and then plummeting into the trough of steep, tall waves. And if the sea is confused, no amount of wind pressure on the sails will stop a vessel from rolling violently as well. Add that to the roller coaster effect and you've got your basic Maytag dryer set on high. Of course, in those conditions, the yacht will be sailing off the wind so the period of the waves becomes longer. The vessel will be sailing off the wind only if she is not attempting to claw off and away from a lee shore. Of course then the issue of broaching comes to the fore. Most yachts do best when running with steep waves while towing lines or a sea anchor. Screaming into a trough on the diagonal is a quick and dirty recipe for a broach. The properly sailed small yacht will only be bothered but the breakers atop those huge waves. LOL. You really haven't been there, have you? Those breakers tend to slosh green water into the cockpit, I have found. One must always keep the washboard in and battened down. Those idiot motorvessels seem to be pounding straight into the waves which seems stupid to me. Why don't they fall off a bit and take the waves diagonally. They would have a smoother ride and might even be able to make some headway. Primarily because steeply-pitched waves can roll a planing craft over on its beam ends just after cresting a steep wave, especially if the boat is either relatively short in length or narrow of beam though longer. Of course running with the sea or heading into it can pitchpole a small planing vessel as well. Frankly big, steep waves are no place to be in a smallish powerboat. Max |
Your Christmas will be just another round of feeding
and changing baby. Way to go Mr. Mom! Brody you are so weird! CN wrote in message ... On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:39:51 GMT, "katysails" wrote: Nope...I'm gonna have fun with my granddaughters....I'm going to watch them open presents and have a good time and be very thankful that they are alive....My Christmas will be much better than yours. Your Christmas can only be better than Neal's if you re-upholster all your furniture with Mauve naugahyde. Neal told me so! BB, aka Neal |
"Bob Crantz" wrote in message ink.net... Large wave behind the tanker with the lightning bolt. I agree. That photo looks very suspect. Maybe it was taken on Lake Michigan - and the lightning was added later??? Regards Donal -- |
Strangest looking storm trysail I ever saw. The shape is
wrong. That's a reefed mainsail or I'm a hobbit. CN OzOne wrote in message ... Had you put a 50% jib up, the boat would have been knocked flat within seconds of that pic being taken....Oh, and that "reefed mainsail" is a storm trisail. |
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:17:00 +1100, OzOne said: Wow Donal, did you overdose on ignorance pills? As always Oz, your logic is impeccable. I cannot disagree with you. Now that's a change! Xmas spirit? Brown, white, red or bubbly? Sarcasm. Please, Dave!!!! It's much more fun when people don't understand. Regards Donal -- |
I can tell by looking at the sea state in that photo using the
Beaufort scale that the winds were NOWHERE near 85 knots when that photo was taken. More like fifty. CN OzOne wrote in message ... Cappy, at the time that pic was taken, waves in the area were in excess of 60' and the gentle breeze was topping 85kts. |
"Maxprop" wrote in message nk.net... "Donal" wrote in message Much nonsense about whether Lake Michigan is a lake or a sea, has been written here over the years. I would like to settle this debate for once and for all. Here are some photos that depict conditions in real seas. http://www.arendnet.com/atlant4.htm I think that we can agree that conditions like these cannot be found on "Lake" Michigan! Great photos. The top one looks like a bulk freighter on Lake M. with an approaching squall with a trailing wall cloud. Beyond that there isn't much resemblance. Then again, would any of this ever be seen in the Adriatic, the Med. or the Red sea? Sea doesn't mean the open ocean, necessarily. It refers to bodies of water of various sizes. The Med. gets some scary storms. A friend got airlifted off of a yacht in an F10 by an American aircraft carrier's helicopter. He was very impressed by the fact that it took a 1/2 hour to get from the helicopter to the sick bay - after the helicopter had landed!! He was very unimpressed by the fact that the helicopter couldn't find them without radio assistance!! Regards Donal -- |
wrote in message ... On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:03:45 -0500, Capt. Neal® wrote: Your Christmas will be just another round of feeding and changing baby. Way to go Mr. Mom! Brody you are so weird! CN Says the totally busted and humiliated Neal the homeless bum. BB, aka Neal - No really! I'm Neal & Doug & Wally and... and... well... I'm nobody! I corrected your mistake. Regards Donal -- |
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message I've got more time in the Gulf Stream than you have in your boat. Anyone familiar with the Gulf Stream knows full well that the seas there grow to stupendous proportions when the wind is against the current. I doubt that you've spent ANY time in the GS. Moreoever, I doubt if you ever get off the fricking mooring, other than to pump out. Otherwise you'd not have made the ridiculous statements you posted. As for time in my boat, almost anyone has more time than I. I work for a living, and I've only had the boat 4 years. I've sailed in waves as large as those shown in some of those pictures and had no trouble controlling my yacht. It's all about a balanced sail plan and the proper square footage of sail for the wind conditions. Again I doubt the veracity of your claims. Your statements prove to me that you NEVER have sailed in large seas because if you had you would know that most of the hype about them is just hype. Who said anything about the hype? I simply said you've never sailed in the big stuff. You would also know that the ride in a small, properly sailed yacht in the 27-30 foot range is very much more comfortable than the motion on larger motor vessels that pitch, roll and yaw in an almost uncontrollable manner. I thought I already said that. Guess you just respond, rather than read other's posts. Nothing new there. Pitching in a small vessel such as mine is worse in a heavy chop in shallow water than it is in large seas the period of which is long enough that pitching is barely noticed. In heavy winds and seas I do not attempt to go to weather. I'm not stupid so I go off the wind enough to make things as comfortable as possible. Which is the prudent thing to do. Screaming into the trough is stupid and unnecessary. Why do you do it? Who said I do? Not I. I simply pointed out that some of the things you've claimed to do are not particularly good for one's health, or that of one's vessel. I do not. It is easy to sail across the wind so the trough comes at your vessel at an oblique enough angle to eliminate the danger of a broach. If the waves are steep enough and tall enough, there is no such thing as being at an oblique-enough angle to avoid a broach. Another thing, again, is that balanced sail plan. Any time I see a monohull sloop attempting to sail under mainsail alone like the photo that was posted I quickly understand that the skipper of that vessel has forgotten how to balance the helm no matter how great a reputation he or his vessel might enjoy. Once again you make a statement that shows ignorance of the facts. Some sloops are actually designed to sail well under main alone. Mine, for example. It's in the literature that accompanied the boat. Depending upon wind speed (read: high velocity) and current, sailing under main alone is not only well-balanced, it's better balanced than when flying even a hanky of a jib. That Coronado of yous isn't the only boat afloat, Herr Kapitan. You cannot possibly look at a picture of a vessel being tossed sideways because it cannot be sailed because of an unbalanced sail plan and conclude anything other than the captain and crew is either not paying attention or they are just plain lazy and inept. At least I'm intelligent enough to know that I don't have anywhere near the facts necessary to draw any such sort of conclusions w/r/t to that boat or the skipper and crew. You, OTOH, just plunge right in and make a fool of yourself. Those are the facts. I could care less if you agree with them or not. You are an amateur compared to me. Anybody who uses Maxprop for a name is no sailor. Oh really? I think anyone who uses the moniker "Capt. Neal" isn't even a real person. But that's another issue. One man's facts are another man's humor. That's certainly the case in this example. You look more foolish with each passing paragraph. Go motor up and down the Intracoastal with Mr. King and the other trawler sailors. Okay, Capt. Neal, or whomever you are. But count on me (and others) to call you on your ignorance whenever it shows up here. (Giving your identity a bit more thought, you must be Bobsprit. Your tendency to chest-thump, brag, and pass faulty info is almost pathognomonic of the Bubbles syndrome. And since you've been back, he's been absent.) Max |
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message Had I been in charge of that boat, it would have had a 50% jib up to balance out the reefed mainsail. That fact that you can't even recognize a trysail should put to bed any discussion about whether you know **** from shinola. Max |
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... "Maxprop" wrote in message Actually they do have tides, albiet almost imperceptible. Near the equator the oceans have very little tide. So what? Bwahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahah! Lord but you are ignorant. What makes you think there is very little tide near the Equator? Simple physics proves how stupid your statement really is. The pull of gravity from the Moon and Sun raises the tides. The pull is the even greater at the Equator than at higher latitudes because the Earth surface at the Equator is closer to the Moon and Sun than the higher latitudes. Hence gravity is slightly stronger there, hence the tides are actually higher. Some sailor you are! Go stand in the corner. This is such an ignorant post, I'm not going to respond to it. At least not beyond pointing out how completely ignorant it is. Might do some reading, sock puppet. You really don't have a clue. Max |
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message Overly simplified. As I said the Sun also creates tides. Just keep digging that hole, Cappy. Pretty soon you'll be able to get that damned Coronado in there with you. Max |
"JG" wrote in message -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Maxprop" wrote in message link.net... OzOne wrote in message It does indeed. 'The Sled' is actually not doing Hobart this year, I believe she's racing North instead but many of her crew will go south in other yachts. Built as a downwind flyer, hence the Bobsled name, when she was launched she had a small problem with her keel wich caused the entire boat to literally buzz when surfing over 25kts....very uncomfortable. Exciting as that sounds, I'm too big a coward to ever consider the Hobart, not that anyone would ever ask me to crew it. But it would be fun to experience 25kts. on a monohull. Just once. Oh come on... 25kts??? That's a normal summer day out here. Try reading Oz's post again, you imbecile. Max |
OzOne wrote in message On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:18:22 GMT, "Maxprop" scribbled thusly: OzOne wrote in message It does indeed. 'The Sled' is actually not doing Hobart this year, I believe she's racing North instead but many of her crew will go south in other yachts. Built as a downwind flyer, hence the Bobsled name, when she was launched she had a small problem with her keel wich caused the entire boat to literally buzz when surfing over 25kts....very uncomfortable. Exciting as that sounds, I'm too big a coward to ever consider the Hobart, not that anyone would ever ask me to crew it. But it would be fun to experience 25kts. on a monohull. Just once. Max Plenty of chances these days. Volvo 60s are a dime a dozen and getting a ride, or even a drive is often just a matter of asking. The prime catch is getting to Oz. I'm hanging upside down on the globe, from your perspective. Or is it you that's upside down? Say, how do those Alice White bottles stay on the tables down there? Max |
OzOne wrote in message On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:24:52 GMT, "Maxprop" scribbled thusly: OzOne wrote in message . .. Only thing I see is the long long fetch and shallow areas that would produce some really scary waves.... Indeed. plus the fact that it's always so frickin cold! It certainly is when the possibility of really big waves is at hand. Mostly between November and March. Summer can be hot, sultry, and absolutely calm. We once crossed Lake Michigan during the summer "doldrums." I phoned my father from what was as close to the exact center of the lake as possible, and told him that I typically see bigger waves in my bathtub. It was dead flat, hazy, and the damn black flies were biting everything in sight, including our poor pup. Miserable. And hard to believe that at that very place some waves of more than 50' have existed and probably will again. Max Ahhh, I'll take ocean sailing, and the almost constant warm breezes around here...thanks :-) So will I. There's a lot of rhetoric around here about how great fresh water is and all that. I'll take the salt any day. It's clearer, cleaner, and I can actually float in it. And between 15 degrees N and S it's nice and warm. Max |
Try going and ****ing yourself... just like your hero Chumpy..
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Maxprop" wrote in message link.net... "JG" wrote in message -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Maxprop" wrote in message link.net... OzOne wrote in message It does indeed. 'The Sled' is actually not doing Hobart this year, I believe she's racing North instead but many of her crew will go south in other yachts. Built as a downwind flyer, hence the Bobsled name, when she was launched she had a small problem with her keel wich caused the entire boat to literally buzz when surfing over 25kts....very uncomfortable. Exciting as that sounds, I'm too big a coward to ever consider the Hobart, not that anyone would ever ask me to crew it. But it would be fun to experience 25kts. on a monohull. Just once. Oh come on... 25kts??? That's a normal summer day out here. Try reading Oz's post again, you imbecile. Max |
"Maxprop" wrote: So will I. There's a lot of rhetoric around here about how great fresh water is and all that. I'll take the salt any day. It's clearer, cleaner, and I can actually float in it. I'm just wondering why my salt scrub from Switzerland costs so much. Maybe I should just go sailing in the ocean and save the money? LP ;-) |
"Capt. Neal®" wrote: Yes, Grandma! Bwahahahhahahhahahahhah! Give them a hug for me. I don't have any children or grandchildren with whom to enjoy Christmas. Bah, humbug! Not until now, at least... ;-) LP |
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:53:07 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote this crap: So will I. There's a lot of rhetoric around here about how great fresh water is and all that. I'll take the salt any day. It's clearer, cleaner, and I can actually float in it. **** floats in salt water? Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now! |
Um...I wouldn't let Neal within 100 miles of my granddaughters...
"Lady Pilot" wrote in message news:KLvyd.21925$F25.3634@okepread07... "Capt. Neal®" wrote: Yes, Grandma! Bwahahahhahahhahahahhah! Give them a hug for me. I don't have any children or grandchildren with whom to enjoy Christmas. Bah, humbug! Not until now, at least... ;-) LP |
Tsk, tsk, tsk Such anger! Such language, and only 3 days till
Christmas. Try to calm down Jonny, or you'll get nothin but coal in your stocking. -- Merry Christmas...... Scotty "JG" wrote Try going and ****ing yourself... |
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