OT The Swift Boat "Eyewitness" Who Wasn't There
 

This poor, pitiful attempt to smear Kerry is really unravel ling. The
*one* guy that the Smear Boat group had who actually served aboard
Kerry's boat, is Steve Gardner, who served as a gunner on Kerry's
boat. This is the guy who has been trotted out as *the guy* with all
this first hand experience. The only problem? It turns out that he
was NEVER present during even ONE of the incidents in question.
Of course he has been quoted by many of the other "hearsay...wasn't
there" witnesses, but old Steve wasn't there. Lots of lies and
contradictions to explain, there Steve. Why don't you start in the
present and work your way back.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408240001


"Gardner claimed to know that Kerry fled the scene on the river that
day while the other three boats stayed and that Kerry then "turned
around and came all the way back to pick up Mr. Rassmann that he had
thrown off his boat when he took off, when he fled down the canal."
But later in the show, Gardner admitted to not being present that day.
When Scarborough attempted to revisit the "March 13, 1969 incident,"
Gardner said, "I'm not going to deal with that. Because I wasn't
there."


Oh well, stories change with the passing of time. Take Adm Roy
Hoffmann, who on May 6, 2004 said:

Hoffman acknowledged he had no first-hand knowledge to discredit
Kerry's claims to valor and said that although Kerry was under his
command, he really didn't know Kerry much personally." [Milwaukee
Journal Sentinel]

Time passes...all the way to August 5, 2004 and the new story is...

August 5: Hoffman said, "I knew him well, because I operated very
closely with him and, uh, many of the operations, uh, most of the
operations were-were conducted with multiple boats" - a dramatic shift
from admitting no personal knowledge of Kerry three months earlier; it
went unchallenged by his host.

Perhaps he was influenced by some of the affidavits of others, who
weren't there either and also had no personal knowledge, like Steve
Gardner. "New evidence" as Dave likes to call it.

These guys are really floundering in their own lies and fabrications.
Someone toss them a PFD...no, make it an anchor.

Not only that, but one of Bush's political advisor attorneys
just resigned from the campaign because there was a conflict
of interest. He was also involved with the bogus Swiftboat vets.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

I would really like to hear a rational explanation from one of our
esteemed members of the right-wing wacko groups if they can still
claim that Bush didn't lie.

This morning, Mr. Ginsberg resigned after voluntarily disclosing his
role as an advisor to both the Bush campaign and the "Swift Boat
Veterans for Truth." Is this dual role a violation of federal election
laws? Technically it isn't, but the appearance of a "connection" could
still have political consequences. Ginsberg's admission of ties with
the so-called "527 group" comes after the President has categorically
denied that a connection exists between his campaign and the
television ads in question.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

You're digging yourself in deeper, Jon. As I said before, answer the
questions in that little quiz and then come back and tell us about those
"ties."


Dave, I don't vote according to party. Never. But I know Bush is not interested
in anything but himself. Many republicans agree. MANY. I have never seen a
worse president of the USA than Bush. No one even comes close, because most had
at least SOME good qualities. Our country has soured in 4 years. The country is
horribly polarized. That in itself should teach you something. Better leaders
(Reagan, Clinton) commanded respect. We really need a new guy. Kerry won't be
worse, might be better and perhaps we'll have a much better president down the
road. 1st things 1st. Bush must go.

RB

Better leaders
( Clinton) commanded respect.


That's a joke ............... right?
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Better leaders
( Clinton) commanded respect.


That's a joke ............... right


Reagan and Clinton were two term presidents who had plenty of outside-party
support. It's just not the case with Bush. The country is horribly divided.
Wake up!!!

RB

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not only that, but one of Bush's political advisor attorneys
just resigned from the campaign because there was a conflict
of interest. He was also involved with the bogus Swiftboat vets.

Lest we forget, this is typical of the tactics Hitler used to get elected.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:23:45 -0400, "Vito" wrote:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not only that, but one of Bush's political advisor attorneys
just resigned from the campaign because there was a conflict
of interest. He was also involved with the bogus Swiftboat vets.

Lest we forget, this is typical of the tactics Hitler used to get elected.


While Ginsberg's role(s) was not illegal, it seems that the outright
lies and hypocriscy are probably the reasons for the resignation.

In the August 7 Philadelphia Inquirer, Ginsberg said

....Ben Ginsberg, a legal adviser to the Bush campaign, specifically
condemned the dual roles played by Democrats Harold Ickes and Bill
Richardson, who had official roles at the convention and also within
prominent friendly 527s.

"They're over the coordination line," Ginsberg said of Ickes and
Richardson. "The whole notion of cutting off links between public
officeholders and soft-money groups just got exploded."

So why would he be condemning them for something that he, himself, was
also doing? Of course the real issue is that old embarrassing "we
don't have anything to do with the Swift Boats group" story by the
Bush Campaign and these guys keep falling out of the tree.

I am sure all the other connections to the Bush campaign are pure
coincidence. It is just good fortune for Bush that some fringe group
comes out of nowhere to attack his opponents. That reminds me, I
wonder how John McCain's illegitimate daughter from a black prostitute
is doing these days?

I figured that you'd forget that Bush said categorically that there
was no connection between his campaign and those losers. He LIED.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 25 Aug 2004 11:51:44 -0700, (Jonathan Ganz)
said:

Not only that, but one of Bush's political advisor attorneys
just resigned from the campaign because there was a conflict
of interest.

I figured you'd be taken in by that Kerry ploy. Take answer that little quiz
I posted earlier in another thread, and then come back and tell us about
that "conflict of interest."

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Vito wrote:
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not only that, but one of Bush's political advisor attorneys
just resigned from the campaign because there was a conflict
of interest. He was also involved with the bogus Swiftboat vets.

Lest we forget, this is typical of the tactics Hitler used to get elected.

Sorry, but I thought it was Karl Rove, not Gobbles.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Dave wrote:
Umm...I don't think so. Notice that he specifically did _not_ mention the
fact that the DNC's chief lawyer also was also the lawyer for the 527s on
the Dem side of the fence. His position was entirely consistent--advice by a
lawyer, who is bound by the canons of ethics to maintain the confidentiality
of each client's information, is not prohibited coordination. On the other
hand when Ickes was instrumental in setting up the 527s while at the same
time serving on the DNC's executive committee, and Richardson had an active
roll in running other 527s while at the same time serving as chairman of the
Dems' convention, that crossed the line of prohibited coordination.

I think instead that he realized realistically that the Dems might succeed,
with media help, in throwing eyewash at the electorate, ignoring these
distinctions and applying their usual double standard.

Bush LIED about it. There's no getting past that Mr. Poodle.




--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Dave wrote:
You're digging yourself in deeper, Jon. As I said before, answer the
questions in that little quiz and then come back and tell us about those
"ties."

You're unable to dig your way out of your poo... Bush LIED about it.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

No joke. Despite his foibles, he was respected around the world and in
the US. His popularity, for example, during the impeachment hearings
never wavered.

Bush has been up and down like the cheap whore he is.

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
Better leaders
( Clinton) commanded respect.


That's a joke ............... right?


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 26 Aug 2004 13:02:24 GMT, (SAIL LOCO) said:

That's a joke ............... right?

My reaction too, Loco. But Bobsprit's post really didn't merit a response as
it consisted of the usual irrelevant blather totally unresponsive to the
topic under discussion.

It didn't merit a response from you Mr. Poodle, but then again you
issued a response. Sounds like a flip flopper to me.




--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

RB,

Bush is a Lousy Pres. but Carter has it all over him for lousy. (And I
vote for him!)

OT

Well, there wasn't much choice... Ford got screwed because he
pardoned Nixon.

In article ,
Thom Stewart wrote:
RB,

Bush is a Lousy Pres. but Carter has it all over him for lousy. (And I
vote for him!)

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Bush is a Lousy Pres. but Carter has it all over him for lousy. (And I
vote for him!)


Carter was bad, but he wasn't evil like this maniac. There's a difference. No
one ever expected Bush to do so much damage so fast. I didn't even think it was
possible. At 41 I really learned something!

RB

On 26 Aug 2004 11:43:50 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote this
crap:

Dave, I don't vote according to party. Never. But I know Bush is not interested
in anything but himself. Many republicans agree. MANY. I have never seen a
worse president of the USA than Bush.


Have you forgotten the KKKlinton years?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On 26 Aug 2004 11:32:18 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:

No joke. Despite his foibles, he was respected around the world and in
the US. His popularity, for example, during the impeachment hearings
never wavered.


You have to be kidding, Jon-boy. klinton was loathed by the military.
klinton was hated by all veterans. In the midwest, there was
absolutely no respect for klinton. But you wouldn't know that, living
in the gay area, and hanging around with all your buttees.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:23:45 -0400, "Vito" wrote
this crap:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not only that, but one of Bush's political advisor attorneys
just resigned from the campaign because there was a conflict
of interest. He was also involved with the bogus Swiftboat vets.

Lest we forget, this is typical of the tactics Hitler used to get elected.


Hitler was appointed to the position of Chancellor, after his party
received the majority of seats.






Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
On 26 Aug 2004 11:32:18 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:

No joke. Despite his foibles, he was respected around the world and in
the US. His popularity, for example, during the impeachment hearings
never wavered.


You have to be kidding, Jon-boy. klinton was loathed by the military.
klinton was hated by all veterans. In the midwest, there was
absolutely no respect for klinton. But you wouldn't know that, living
in the gay area, and hanging around with all your buttees.

Clinton was a two-term president. Bush will be a one-term president.

Sorry Stumpy, but you're the expert when it comes to being in a gay
area and having buttees (whatever that is).
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Have you forgotten the KKKlinton years?

Oh yeah....you mean those 8 years when the country had a foriegn policy and
international respect. All of your friends (the few you might have) must be
American.

RB

Oh yeah....you mean those 8 years when the country had a foriegn policy
and
international respect.

LOL........... The rest of the world was laughing at us. Where were you in a
parallel universe?
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

The rest of the world was laughing at us. Where were you in a
parallel universe?


Loco, see those ladies aboard Alien. Two of them work for the Spanish Embassy,
one is part of the European film commission committee. My oldest friend is
French and lives there half the year. My wife is German.
Clinton has three times the respect of Bush worldwide. The lowest moment was
when the rest of the world wondered why anyone cared where the president had
sex.
Get a life, a girl and get back to us, Loco fish!

RB

Hardly. We were actually respected by the world community.
You see loco, no one outside of the right-wing religious
wackos care that he got a blow job.

We're quite the joke now.

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
Oh yeah....you mean those 8 years when the country had a foriegn policy
and
international respect.

LOL........... The rest of the world was laughing at us. Where were you in a
parallel universe?
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

You see loco, no one outside of the right-wing religious
wackos care that he got a blow job.


How true. The rest of the world is always perplexed at how this conservative
country overreacts to "sex scandals" that they see simply as human behavior.

RB

On 27 Aug 2004 10:08:15 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote this
crap:

Have you forgotten the KKKlinton years?

Oh yeah....you mean those 8 years when the country had a foriegn policy and
international respect. All of your friends (the few you might have) must be
American.


You mean a foreign policy of bombing places like Kosovo, and sending
troops into places that aren't any threat to us?




Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On 26 Aug 2004 18:41:21 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:



You have to be kidding, Jon-boy. klinton was loathed by the military.
klinton was hated by all veterans. In the midwest, there was
absolutely no respect for klinton. But you wouldn't know that, living
in the gay area, and hanging around with all your buttees.

Clinton was a two-term president. Bush will be a one-term president.


You haven't been folowing the polls, or the latest news, Jon-boy.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
On 27 Aug 2004 10:08:15 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote this
crap:

Have you forgotten the KKKlinton years?

Oh yeah....you mean those 8 years when the country had a foriegn policy and
international respect. All of your friends (the few you might have) must be
American.


You mean a foreign policy of bombing places like Kosovo, and sending
troops into places that aren't any threat to us?

With UN approval, with actual partners, without lying to the American
public about the reasons. And, yes, without us being threatened.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
You haven't been folowing the polls, or the latest news, Jon-boy.

Yes, I have Bush is still losing the electoral college poll, amoung
others Stumpy.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

On 27 Aug 2004 18:45:50 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
You haven't been folowing the polls, or the latest news, Jon-boy.

Yes, I have Bush is still losing the electoral college poll,

The tide is turning, Jon-boy. Several states have already slipped
into Honest George's column, and the RNC hasn't had their convention,
yet.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

More like the tidy bowl... keep the faith Stumpy.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On 27 Aug 2004 18:45:50 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
You haven't been folowing the polls, or the latest news, Jon-boy.

Yes, I have Bush is still losing the electoral college poll,

The tide is turning, Jon-boy. Several states have already slipped
into Honest George's column, and the RNC hasn't had their convention,
yet.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Hey Horsefat;

Have you forgotton that Kosovo was a NATO OPERATION? We did get stuck
with more than our share of the bill but it was a North Atlantic Treaty
Operation. It wasn't an American or a Clinton show.
Can you say NATO?

Ole Thom

Have you forgotton that Kosovo was a NATO OPERATION? We did get stuck
with more than our share of the bill but it was a North Atlantic Treaty
Operation. It wasn't an American or a Clinton show.
Can you say NATO?


I got news for you, Thom. People like Horvath don't defend Bush and other bad
politicians because they're staunch republicans. They do it because they are
filled with anger, hate and bias and someone like Bush is likely to echo their
beliefs.
The truth has little bearing to people like Horvath.

RB

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:45:27 -0700, (Thom Stewart)
wrote this crap:

Hey Horsefat;

Have you forgotton that Kosovo was a NATO OPERATION? We did get stuck
with more than our share of the bill but it was a North Atlantic Treaty
Operation. It wasn't an American or a Clinton show.
Can you say NATO?


What's that got to do with anything? Klinton put us in an unpopular
war against a country that was no threat to us.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On 29 Aug 2004 11:25:03 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote this
crap:

I got news for you, Thom. People like Horvath don't defend Bush and other bad
politicians because they're staunch republicans. They do it because they are
filled with anger, hate and bias and someone like Bush is likely to echo their
beliefs.

That's pure bull****. I have no anger or hate. If I did, I'd be a
demoncrat.


The truth has little bearing to people like Horvath.

I always speak the truth.




Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

What's that got to do with anything? Klinton put us in an unpopular
war against a country that was no threat to us.


Like I said, Horvath is just angry. Truth is not part of his belief system.


RB

Bob is absolutely right. A real Republican, someone like McCain, doesn't
defend behavior such as Bush's. You're a sad little boy with no friends and
a deep hatred.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On 29 Aug 2004 11:25:03 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote this
crap:

I got news for you, Thom. People like Horvath don't defend Bush and other
bad
politicians because they're staunch republicans. They do it because they
are
filled with anger, hate and bias and someone like Bush is likely to echo
their
beliefs.

That's pure bull****. I have no anger or hate. If I did, I'd be a
demoncrat.


The truth has little bearing to people like Horvath.

I always speak the truth.




Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Unpopular with whom? The American people were not lied to and
we had the support of the rest of the world community. Possibly it
was unpopular with the Serbs.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:45:27 -0700, (Thom Stewart)
wrote this crap:

Hey Horsefat;

Have you forgotton that Kosovo was a NATO OPERATION? We did get stuck
with more than our share of the bill but it was a North Atlantic Treaty
Operation. It wasn't an American or a Clinton show.
Can you say NATO?


What's that got to do with anything? Klinton put us in an unpopular
war against a country that was no threat to us.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:08:29 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

Unpopular with whom? The American people were not lied to and
we had the support of the rest of the world community. Possibly it
was unpopular with the Serbs.

So what?

--
What's that got to do with anything? Klinton put us in an unpopular
war against a country that was no threat to us.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!