BoatBanter.com - night sailing - too close for comfort.

Seems to me there's nothing in the regs that say it has to
be engaged....

Vessel Priority (your order of importance as a watercraft), in descending
order, is as follows:
a. A vessel not under command (Example: Loss of steering or power).

b. A vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver (i.e.: Underwater
operation such as diving or dredging).

c. A vessel constrained by draft (i.e.: A large vessel in a narrow
channel).

d. Fishing or trawling vessels (i.e.: Nets or trawler - remember not
trolling!).

e. Sailboats, meaning: boats under sail ONLY. If a sailboat is using its
auxiliary engine, it is a powerboat, even if the sails are up!

f. Power driven.
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Nope. The engine has to be in gear; what if it was just be run to charge
batteries, or if it was started but not warmed up?

Of course, if you had an engine but didn't use it to avoid a collision,
you'd
have 'splaing to do. And if you were powering you can't slip it into
neutral
and suddenly claim rights as a sailboat. This is one of those grey areas
where
you'll never get an answer from the CG.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Hey, umm... if the engine was started then you're a motorboat.
You have no status at that point, certainly not above a tug/tow.
I hope you were running your steaming light. Otherwise, you
could be cited.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"gonefishiing" wrote in message
...
agreed: for the sake of safety, i always stay away from bigger vessels
and
did so on this sail as well, until the tug/barge (TUB) changed course
for
the
final time. i was certain i was ok with both vessels until the barge
circled
around and was pointing at me again leaving me no evasive action to
take.

neither vessel produced any indication of warning that i was in the
way
(lights / horn)

agreed again: i realize i should have hailed them on the radio and
asked
for
they're intentions long before events became close.
definitely mistake no.1.
Sometimes i do this, sometimes i don't. it has always been a simple
assesment of whether i believe i will be out of the way. and i did
believe
this.
monitoring channel 13 for security calls is also something that i
usually
do
at night.
this night i did not.

the engine was started and idling by in case i needed it.
in regards to avoiding a collision, given the speed differentials of
the
vessels, i don't believe the engine would have made any difference in
this
situation.
in regards to the regs: it would have converted me to a vessel under
power
and i think (?) changed my status to some extent in relation to the 2
other
vessels. not that my decision was based on that or that it really does
not
matter once fiberglass contacts steel.
the point being i was making good speed in good wind.

given that the tug/barge changed course twice: was he obligated to
give
way?
or is this a "fluid" problem that needs to be constantly
reassessed?--which
means always stay out of his way no matter what courses he chooses?
felt like a cat and mouse sort of thing.

as a technical point: their seems to be a difference between an
inablitiy
to
maneuver because of draft, in a particular direction--versus the
general
maneuverablity of a vessel because of length/speed/wieght.
i am not sure these 2 issues are connected by the regs.
as i understand it, constrained by draft is designed to prevent a
vessel
from running aground.
in this regard there was no danger to the freighter who had plenty of
room
to the south, which was his general route.
the tub could not turn towards the north to cross in front of me
because
of
draft and speed issues, and he could not turn south because of the
freighter, which left him pointed at me.

my guess is not i or the freighter anticipated a circling tub.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not knowing the area, I have a couple of comments.

I'm not sure you were stand on, given that if there is
any doubt about draft constraint. Also, a tug and
a barge have status in most cases, but again, I don't
know the area.

Also, why not hail them and ask their intentions?

Finally, while sailing does give you stand on status
in many circumstances, it also limits your ability to
take evasive action. Perhaps it would have been
prudent to start the engine?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"gonefishiing" wrote in message
...
out for a late night sail last week, which i do a lot of.
western edge of long island sound, ny
on a port tack heading southwest towards the throgs neck bridge.
slack tide.
particulary dark night.
full main and jib set
15 knots wind

keeping a vigilant eye out for ships, i spot a black form against
the
lights
of the city in front of me and realize it is a tug and barge and i
also
realize (in the absence of visible nav lights) his small profile
means
he
is
headed right at me and steaming.

i decide to tack the boat around 180 degrees and give him some
room........assuming (correctly) his course has 2 possiblities--he
is
going
to continue eastbound in the sound or he is going to turn north
towards
eastchester bay to anchor his barge (partial mistake no.1?). he
turns
northeast towards the barge anchorage, paralleling my course and i
am
east
of him and the barge anchorage- out of his way.

towards the east i spot another ship (freighter) steaming
westbound
for
the
gate. he is north of the lane that most of the commerical ships
take
for
the
bridge. and a quick visual calculation tells me i can cross his
bow
without
problem and also because he needs to turn behind my stern to set
his
course
for the bridge (and soon!) (partial mistake no.2?)

they are both aware that i am here-- million candle power lights
illuminating sails had a way of doing that. (my light)

1: the freighter, westbound, is not turning although i have
crossed
his
bow--only slightly and he'll end up passing beyond me, far too
close
and
moving fast.
2: the tug/barge decides to steer a circle around the barge
anchorage
and
end up eastbound again --off my port beam and close enough that i
can
see
the pilot. he has slowed down significantly at this point as i am
now
between both vessels. (on a starboard tack)

3: they both passed "safely" at my stern, to the south of me the
freigher
first, the tug next.

this was really too close for comfort, and i had my hands full
sailing.
not to negate my responsiblity, i think constrained by draft here
is a
relative term, if it even applies. they each had a mile of room to
the
south
(behind me) to manuveur and cannot understand why they would
choose to
approach so closely, as my actions were clear, my course was
appropriate
and
consistent and meant to give each a wide berth

and for whatever it may be worth, i think everyone took the
correct
actions
i believe i was the stand on vessel
the freighter was 2nd in pecking order
the tug/barge gave way

what would you have done differently?

gf.