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DSK wrote: Thom Stewart wrote: If you use the solid vange to hold up the boom when using it for a crane, it will soon be like Neals Boom, with a pipe in it. The topping lift bears the load. The boom only position the lifting location. Not if it was built properly in the first place. I must be more spoiled than I realize, having sailed boats with strong spars and decent rigging. Oh well. If your boom will not lift a dinghy then it will not stand up to hard sailing either. A topping lift might "bear the load" but it also puts the boom under more compression than the weight of the load. Compression is not the same as bending from a point load on a hollow spar. Shessh. Look, my boom may support 10 tons in conpression but would fold instantly if that weight was palced at the end of the boom with it being held up at the vang attachment. Think about it or try an experiment with a toothpick. It's really engineering 101! Cheers |
Yes, we have a solid vang and topping lift for good reason.
Cheers Thom Stewart wrote: Bart, That is what started this discussion. I believe it was you that said,"That with a Rigel Vang you could get rid of the topping lift." I mentioned that although TL is a PITA it does have other function. You should weigh them all before doing away with it. |
Please contact Garhauer, who is a major player, if not the biggest in this
field and ask how many of their vangs have locks. You might want to check your facts. Hall Spar's Quick Vang is probably the #1 selling solid vang. Garhaur's units which are very well made are seen mostly as supplied equipment on new Catalinas. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" |
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Lots of these rigid vangs break, compared to rope vangs
which are more reliable, obviously. As OZ stated booms often break right at the vang attachment point. This is a weak point because of the leverage, as CM stated. Nevertheless, a rigid vang could be used to support a boom for hauling a person out of the water. I would not call a man overboard, a heavy load. Many vangs feature a lock, as Doug stated, to bypass the internal spring. From what I've read, this is one of the failure points, along with the mast and boom attachments flanges. If a sail is hoisted, so that some or all boom lifting is provided by the sail, the load at the end of the boom could be increased, probably to the point where the vang could be disabled completely. The sail would serve to carry the load normally carried by the topping lift. For any kind of heavy load a sail, halyard, or topping lift is the way to go. On larger boats with beefier systems, a rigid vang should be robust enough to lift some substantial loads. However, would you want to risk breaking it, if a wire topping lift was available? "DSK" wrote wrote: Apparently you think the term "rigid vang" means essentially a solid, steel pipe. It doesn't mean that at all. A Rigid vang "telescopes" and has springs inside it. All the ones I've seen also have locks. ...(stupid BS snipped) ... I'm not surprised you don't know this. Maybe if you were other than an armchair wannabe sailor... Maybe if you sailed anything other than a cheap old beater, maybe if you had some experience with other than obsolete gear, maybe if you hung around sailors who know how to sail and how to rig their boats properly, you'd know that solid vangs have locks. DSK |
I'll bet that Garhauer outsells Hall 10 to 1. Garhauer is amazingly
inexpensive compared to everyone else. I have had my vang, made by Offshore Spars, for some years now. They no longer make them, probably because they couldn't compete from a pricing perspective. Looking at it, there is really no reason it should have cost anywhere near as much as it did. It is nothing more than an anodized, low tech shock absorber with some beefy fittings. Certainly nothing that should have cost close to $600, if my failing memory serves. Garhauer is about a third of that. Agree about the cost of most units. What's even more insulting is the price of the boom and mast attachment fittings. As far as Garhauer outselling others 10-1 afraid I don't see it. Yes the Garhauer seems to be a value and appears to be bullitt proof but walking the docks at any marina I hardly ever see them compared to Quick Vangs. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" |
Lots of these rigid vangs break, compared to rope vangs
which are more reliable, obviously. As OZ stated booms often break right at the vang attachment point. This is a weak point because of the leverage, as CM stated. Not if installed correctly. I had my Quick Vang boom bracket break loose from the boom once as we crossed the starting line of a race. The reason for the failure ..... the nitwit who installed the boom fitting attached it to the thin walled boom with machine screws and no backing plate. I would be all of 2 threads had been holding that fitting on. I drilled and tapped proper sized holes in a 5' long piece of 1/2" x 1/2" aluminum bar stock and placed it inside the boom. Now those machine screws have much more meat to get a grip on and the 5' length really spreads the load. We've done a couple of auto jibes in big winds on downwind legs with nothing breaking since then. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" |
BB,
Based on his posts, I'd say Doug is probably the best sailor in this whole group, and he is certainly the most outstanding topic contributor. Spinlock rigid vangs lock. Also hydraulic vangs don't have a lock per se, but can be locked hydraulically. I've also seen beefy mechanical screw type rigid vangs that can be locked in any position. I've seen such mechanical devices used for backstay adjusters where they are probably better suited. Rigid vangs that lock in position are not uncommon. The Spinlock is the rigid vang I've been considering, and the reason I started this thread. Here is evidence that rigid vangs do lock, as Doug stated. http://us.binnacle.com/online/produc...&dept_id=15110 *****************************************8 I'm wondering about boats with floating goosenecks. My Ericson's gooseneck can slide on a track, in lieu of a Cunningham, to flatten the sail. In such a case, a rigid vang may not have the play I need to function properly. Also of concern is the fact that a rigid vang would work against my boom downhaul. Anyone have any experience with this? wrote On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:38:18 -0400, DSK wrote: All the ones I've seen also have locks. ...(stupid BS snipped) ... I'm not surprised you don't know this. Maybe if you were other than an armchair wannabe sailor... Maybe if you sailed anything other than a cheap old beater, maybe if you had some experience with other than obsolete gear, maybe if you hung around sailors who know how to sail and how to rig their boats properly, you'd know that solid vangs have locks. DSK Just more proof that DSK is no sailor and simply parrots what he "thinks" he read in a magazine. Please contact Garhauer, who is a major player, if not the biggest in this field and ask how many of their vangs have locks. Doug is an idiot of Jax proportions. BB |
Why don't you put one of those downward pushing
vangs on your boat like the one on Ocean Planet? http://www.blumhorst.com/potterpages...0015/h0010.htm "Thom Stewart" wrote I'm not knocking the Rigid Vang. I wish I could fit one on my boat but the Pilothouse makes that impossible. I'm thinking I might be able to use a KICKER. I'm pointing out that PITA top lift still is a worthwhile addition. |
In such a case the force of the mainsail on the boom would
be partially offset by the mainsheet and vang, reducing and spreading the load on the boom..... "DSK" wrote Think about this, Thom... the force on the end of the boom is going to be very great when sailing hard... enough to lean the boat over a lot. If the boom end can take that force, then it should take that same force in the form of a weight heavy enough to heel the boat over. |
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