Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

no it's not, because you don't know how far it is from you.

besides, jeffies, *if* you knew physics well enough to get the degree you claim
you would know you need *two* reference points, or one point and a distance.

ask your wife to explain it to you.

If that's the criterion, then the North Pole is a good reference point.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
the starting point is no longer a reference point once you are moving,
because
you no longer know where it is in relation to where your boat is.

this ain't hard stuff, dood. every pilot on the planet knows it.

absolutely not. DR has no reference points in it, and I have never
stated
that
it does.

In that case, you best look up "reference point". The starting point of
a DR plot is generally at a known reference point and it can easily be
said that the ending point of your DR is also a reference point.

LOL Why is it, every time I open a Jax post now, my computer starts
playing the music from "Twilight Zone"?

otn

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

confused, are ya over the knee? seems so.

it can easily be
said that the ending point of your DR is also a reference point.


while it may be easily said, it is in no way accurate, for you do not with
any
degree of certainty just where you are once you have started. It is
physically
impossible to know.


Wait a bit while I turn down the volume on my speakers .... damn
"twighlight zone " music is gettin louder....... there..... now.....

huh?

otn

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

well, jeffies, *if* you can see Lighthouse White Diamond and you can see
Daymarker Eel and you can measure the angle between relative to your boat THEN
you know where you are IF you have a chart that accurately portrays where both
are.

jeffies, that be different from wondering around in the fog looking for rocks
to hit.

jeffies, DR is just guessing, and the degree of uncertainty can not be
determined. That is physically impossible.

And why is this "qualitatively different" from any other method of
navigation?


remember, jeffies, when you claimed to have a degree in physics from some
junior college? Well, if you had that associates degree in physics you
might
have heard of the PhD thesis written a hundred some years ago by a young
man
by
the Al Einstein.

Please, can you explain how "On a new determination of molecular dimensions"
relates to this problem? You don't even know what Bert's thesis actually
was!




One
could also say that the compass represents another reference

no, one can not. one can ONLY state which direction magnetic North is
and
which direction relative to that the boat is pointed, but *no* deduction
can
be
made as to which direction actually is actually going. none.

I never claimed you had absolute certainty with infinite precision about
the
direction of travel. You're the one claiming that's the only definition
of
DR.
In fact, formally speaking, the DR plot by itself makes no such
presumption;
it
only describes the position based on the ship's heading and speed through
the
water. If you had any understanding of DR you would know this. Once
again,
you
just prove you don't know what DR is.





but that would be
too complex for jaxie.

wasn't too complex for Einstein when he wrote his PhD thesis on the
subject.
you can read that thesis, if you want, by looking up The Special Theory
of
Relativity.

Einstein's PhD thesis was not special relativity, it was "A New
Determination
of
Molecular Dimensions." And Special Relativity did not focus on the
relative
motion issues that are significant for ship's navigation. That was fully
addressed by Galileo in his "Theory or Relativity" 300 years earlier.
Einstein
only mentioned it by way of recapitulating traditional physics before
showing
how Special Relativity is different. It looks like this is yet another
topic
where you can show your ignorance.

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

sailor Al knew a thing or two about both sailing and relative motion. he is
considered worth listening to by five generations of physicists now.

jeffies, DR is just guessing, and the degree of uncertainty can not be
determined. That is physically impossible.

remember, jeffies, when you claimed to have a degree in physics from some
junior college? Well, if you had that associates degree in physics you
might
have heard of the PhD thesis written a hundred some years ago by a young
man by
the Al Einstein.


UHOH, look out!!!! Jax is gettin serious now, he's pulling out his big
guns, ole Albie Einstein !!!!

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

there is no qualitative difference between navigating boats or airplanes.

you
just prove you don't know what DR is.


well, what you claim is fine navigation practise has been illegal for
pilots
(who easily understand why) for seventy some years.


Ummmmm jax, we's talkin boats here.

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

it is illegal to fly at 20,000 feet with only a compass and a speed indicator
onboard.

No, and that sort of thinking has been illegal for pilots to put into
practise
for seventy some years. there is a reason why it is illegal. a good,
scientific reason.

Oh GOODY !!! The next time I'm flyin in a boat at 20,000 feet, I'll keep
that in mind!!!

Ya didn't understand me, did ya?

otn



One
could also say that the compass represents another reference


no, one can not. one can ONLY state which direction magnetic North is and
which direction relative to that the boat is pointed, but *no* deduction

can be

made as to which direction actually is actually going. none.

Wrong. If someone has experience with ones particular boat, one has
experienced in the past similar conditions, so that one has an educated
feel for how much set one has under many conditions, which one can apply
to ones magnetic heading to determine which direction one is actually
going.

otn

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

Most navigators would think that knowing which light you're looking for is of
some significance!

This is possibly your stupidest comment yet!

Come on jaxie, be a man, fess up! You made up this whole Hatteras story, didn't
you?

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
you still haven't told us which light.

it made no difference WHICH light, for ALL lights are important there. At
least as far as we were concerned.

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, I know what every physicist on the planet knows (as you would too
*if*
you have the degree in physics you claim) and what every pilot on the planet
knows.


BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!! Now you're claiming to possess the sum of all knowledge
of all physicists and pilots throughout the world! Next you'll be claiming
you';re a member of Mensa!!!!!

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

Need for what? I only said DR involves a known reference, you keep try to make
this about the precision of the technique. Everyone knows that a DR or an EP is
not the same as a FIX. Understanding the difference is a significant part of
navigation. But this subtlety seems to be lost on you.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
no it's not, because you don't know how far it is from you.

besides, jeffies, *if* you knew physics well enough to get the degree you
claim
you would know you need *two* reference points, or one point and a distance.

ask your wife to explain it to you.

If that's the criterion, then the North Pole is a good reference point.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
the starting point is no longer a reference point once you are moving,
because
you no longer know where it is in relation to where your boat is.

this ain't hard stuff, dood. every pilot on the planet knows it.

absolutely not. DR has no reference points in it, and I have never
stated
that
it does.

In that case, you best look up "reference point". The starting point of
a DR plot is generally at a known reference point and it can easily be
said that the ending point of your DR is also a reference point.

LOL Why is it, every time I open a Jax post now, my computer starts
playing the music from "Twilight Zone"?

otn

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

Really? You're claiming the angle between two objects gives you a fix?
Interesting ... is that the way it works for airplanes?



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
well, jeffies, *if* you can see Lighthouse White Diamond and you can see
Daymarker Eel and you can measure the angle between relative to your boat THEN
you know where you are IF you have a chart that accurately portrays where both
are.

jeffies, that be different from wondering around in the fog looking for rocks
to hit.

jeffies, DR is just guessing, and the degree of uncertainty can not be
determined. That is physically impossible.

And why is this "qualitatively different" from any other method of
navigation?


remember, jeffies, when you claimed to have a degree in physics from some
junior college? Well, if you had that associates degree in physics you
might
have heard of the PhD thesis written a hundred some years ago by a young
man
by
the Al Einstein.

Please, can you explain how "On a new determination of molecular dimensions"
relates to this problem? You don't even know what Bert's thesis actually
was!




One
could also say that the compass represents another reference

no, one can not. one can ONLY state which direction magnetic North is
and
which direction relative to that the boat is pointed, but *no* deduction
can
be
made as to which direction actually is actually going. none.

I never claimed you had absolute certainty with infinite precision about
the
direction of travel. You're the one claiming that's the only definition
of
DR.
In fact, formally speaking, the DR plot by itself makes no such
presumption;
it
only describes the position based on the ship's heading and speed through
the
water. If you had any understanding of DR you would know this. Once
again,
you
just prove you don't know what DR is.





but that would be
too complex for jaxie.

wasn't too complex for Einstein when he wrote his PhD thesis on the
subject.
you can read that thesis, if you want, by looking up The Special Theory
of
Relativity.

Einstein's PhD thesis was not special relativity, it was "A New
Determination
of
Molecular Dimensions." And Special Relativity did not focus on the
relative
motion issues that are significant for ship's navigation. That was fully
addressed by Galileo in his "Theory or Relativity" 300 years earlier.
Einstein
only mentioned it by way of recapitulating traditional physics before
showing
how Special Relativity is different. It looks like this is yet another
topic
where you can show your ignorance.

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
sailor Al knew a thing or two about both sailing and relative motion. he is
considered worth listening to by five generations of physicists now.


Yes, but that was not what his thesis was about, nor was it important to Special
Relativity. And it wasn't anything new, since it was fully developed by Galileo
in his ""Theory of Relativity" 300 years earlier. The fact that you keep
invoking Einstein's name in this just shows you have no understanding of his
work.

-jeff "I like sailing because it is the sport which demands the least energy”
Albert Einstein

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

ROFLMAO I'm just confused as to how a human brain can have such a
"scattered" view of such a simple subject as is shown by your post.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
confused, are ya over the knee? seems so.


it can easily be
said that the ending point of your DR is also a reference point.


while it may be easily said, it is in no way accurate, for you do not with

any

degree of certainty just where you are once you have started. It is

physically

impossible to know.


Wait a bit while I turn down the volume on my speakers .... damn
"twighlight zone " music is gettin louder....... there..... now.....

huh?

otn

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

Physicists, yes. Don't know too many navigators that listen to him on
navigation..... not enough practical experience.

JAXAshby wrote:
sailor Al knew a thing or two about both sailing and relative motion. he is
considered worth listening to by five generations of physicists now.


jeffies, DR is just guessing, and the degree of uncertainty can not be
determined. That is physically impossible.

remember, jeffies, when you claimed to have a degree in physics from some
junior college? Well, if you had that associates degree in physics you

might

have heard of the PhD thesis written a hundred some years ago by a young

man by

the Al Einstein.


UHOH, look out!!!! Jax is gettin serious now, he's pulling out his big
guns, ole Albie Einstein !!!!

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

This from a weekend warrior who might actually be on the water one
month out of any given year ..... generally, as a deckhand/gopher.
Jax, I don't know how much you know about aircraft navigation, but if
it's at anywhere near the level of your knowledge on boating navigation,
you rank down about "rank amateur wannabe", so I take your statement
with a grain of salt.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
there is no qualitative difference between navigating boats or airplanes.


you
just prove you don't know what DR is.


well, what you claim is fine navigation practise has been illegal for

pilots

(who easily understand why) for seventy some years.


Ummmmm jax, we's talkin boats here.

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

Repeat: Ya didn't understand me, didya?

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
it is illegal to fly at 20,000 feet with only a compass and a speed indicator
onboard.


No, and that sort of thinking has been illegal for pilots to put into

practise

for seventy some years. there is a reason why it is illegal. a good,
scientific reason.

Oh GOODY !!! The next time I'm flyin in a boat at 20,000 feet, I'll keep
that in mind!!!

Ya didn't understand me, did ya?

otn



One
could also say that the compass represents another reference


no, one can not. one can ONLY state which direction magnetic North is and
which direction relative to that the boat is pointed, but *no* deduction

can be


made as to which direction actually is actually going. none.

Wrong. If someone has experience with ones particular boat, one has
experienced in the past similar conditions, so that one has an educated
feel for how much set one has under many conditions, which one can apply
to ones magnetic heading to determine which direction one is actually

going.

otn

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

JAXAshby wrote:

jeffies, DR is just guessing, and the degree of uncertainty can not be
determined. That is physically impossible.

remember, jeffies, when you claimed to have a degree in physics from some
junior college? Well, if you had that associates degree in physics you might
have heard of the PhD thesis written a hundred some years ago by a young man by
the Al Einstein.

He was a crap navigator.

Cheers

Fog, DR and traffic lights.
 

JAXAshby wrote:
In the final days of sail powered commercial shipping, 25 out of every 100
ships sank at sea (remainder snipped)

No, they didn't. That's ridiculous. Take a look at insurance rates of
the day.

DSK