katysails wrote
Bart, you are one sad, poor man....

It is plain
that learning is less important to girls, while boys pay
attention and learn.

Bull****

Think back to when you were a teenager katy. I've been
able to get boys to study when they were not focused, but
girls give up quit, and run away to talk with their girl friends.
Send them to their room and they are on the phone or
in a chat room. Disconnecting the phone and internet just
made them more ingenious at sneaking out, using borrowed
cell phones, or pouring on the tears until someone else gives
in to them.


Young girls are emotional and spend all their time thinking
about boys, cloths, getting married, and children.

Bull****

This is what teenage girls tell me. I've seen it. It is not
bull**** in the majority of the cases. .


girls don't pay attention and rarely
have career goals when they are young.

more bull****

That my impression too. When I ask them what their
career goals are they often chose lofty goals, and take
no steps in that directions. When I try to mentor them
and tell them what the need to do to work towards that
goals they ignore they alwasy lose interest. They like
the idea of having a lofty goal, but don't care to put
much effort into persuing it--until they get older.


...and the rest is just more and more of the same crap......

You hang around with very strange women if that's the impression you have
of
them....the women I know are directed, goal oriented people with carefully
planned out careers...they have climbed up the ladder to the positions
they
hold...

I have to agree with you. Many of the women I meet are very
strange. It is clear to me that age is the key factor in determining
the maturity of a woman. Often it is not until around age 30-40 that they
begin to rely on their brains instead of their bodies


Many women tend to lack trust, be anxious, and overreact.

The nicest type of woman is the helper type. They are real team
players as long as they get what they want. These can be generous,
caring and nurturing and display enormous empathy.

In most cases women have agendas that are visible to men, but
invisible to themselves.

Often they are manipulative--a skill perfected in childhood
they rarely grow out of. Often they don't comprehend how transparent
their games are, because men give them room to hang themselves.

Many times women have fear of abandonment issues because
of their parents broken marriages. I've met a number of women
who continually tested me, by acting crazy, just to see if I'll leave
them. Passing the test only means a new harder test in a couple
of weeks--because they are convinced men always leave their
women. Finally it reaches a point where you have the choice
of physical abuse or leaving--I chose the latter. Or if you spot
this characteristic early you can leave the relationship before being
tortured too long. These sorts of women like underdog causes
but winning is not important, it is the struggle they enjoy.

Many women I meet can't complete things. They start something
take it 90% of the way and then stop and move on to something
else.

A man can tell a woman straight out what is important to him and
what is not, and women will most often agree with everything he
says, but in reality ignore it, and work towards changing his views
to hers. They figure that "Love" will change his mind, or hope to
get married and force the change.
mind later.

The most common tpe of woman I meet is the impulsivesocialite
sophisticate. Underneath that is a woman who is extremely selfish
and ready to drop her friends and plans if something else more
engaging comes also.



Unfortunately, Heinlein's little quip isn't really a truism....Many women
do
not do as they please...they try to please men....they have been taught
culturally that that is the way to succeed...those are the women you speak
of...women who have been trained by men to act that way....Stepford
Women....So don't complain about the monsters that you have made...(for
examples, just read some of Horvath's posts regarding women...)

That is exactly my point. When they do as they please they are focused
on boys. Meanwhile the boys aren't interested at that age.





--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Bart,
Like I said, you're a sad, poor man. I can remember back when I was a
teenager and your descriptions don't ring a bell at all.... but I can tell
you plenty of stories about the "focused" boys whose only goals were to get
into someone's pants or to see how much beer they could swill....I was in
the Honor's program....everyone I ran around with were eggheads...we thought
a great time was tutoring reading comprehension down in the ghetto...
My daughter's a mechanical engineer....my grand-daughters were not allowed
to watch network television at home until they turned 10 and 12 and then
only with adult supervision. They do not have access to the Internet
without my daughter's presence in the room, for homework research only, and
they do not have cell phones or even the regular phone to fall back on. In
fact, my daughter and her husband just moved out of the subdivision
environment so the girl's wouldn't be influenced by peer pressure but have
the larger responsibilities of country living.
All I can think is that you either had a very weak mother, or really strange
sisters to think that your viewpoints are the average...they are not.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Ummmm... I don't see your point... has something changed?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katysails" wrote in message
...
Bart,
Like I said, you're a sad, poor man. I can remember back when I was a
teenager and your descriptions don't ring a bell at all.... but I can tell
you plenty of stories about the "focused" boys whose only goals were to
get
into someone's pants or to see how much beer they could swill....

Ummmm... I don't see your point... has something changed?

No, but Bart seems to think that boys growing up hold some kind of "loftier"
position in society....my remember-y of the teenage years is entirely
different than what his is..
There was an equal number of "swats" in our class, boy and girl, and then
there was the general assembly, a mish mash of kids just trying to find
their way: some through the other sex, some through the dawning of the drug
era, some through alcohol and cars....many of the guys scraped through high
school by the skin of their teeth only to end up in Nam, and some went on to
that great drinking hall of education, Michigan State...by the time everyone
emerged they were grown up....Bart's bitter...he must have an awful personal
story to make the reflections he does....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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You did it right Katy.



"katysails" wrote in message
...
Bart,
Like I said, you're a sad, poor man. I can remember back when I was a
teenager and your descriptions don't ring a bell at all.... but I can tell
you plenty of stories about the "focused" boys whose only goals were to
get
into someone's pants or to see how much beer they could swill....I was in
the Honor's program....everyone I ran around with were eggheads...we
thought
a great time was tutoring reading comprehension down in the ghetto...
My daughter's a mechanical engineer....my grand-daughters were not allowed
to watch network television at home until they turned 10 and 12 and then
only with adult supervision. They do not have access to the Internet
without my daughter's presence in the room, for homework research only,
and
they do not have cell phones or even the regular phone to fall back on.
In
fact, my daughter and her husband just moved out of the subdivision
environment so the girl's wouldn't be influenced by peer pressure but have
the larger responsibilities of country living.
All I can think is that you either had a very weak mother, or really
strange
sisters to think that your viewpoints are the average...they are not.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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katy,

Sounds like you did a "letter perfect" job parenting. I'd put you
in the top 1%. That hardly qualifies you to make rude comments
about my upbringing, when you know nothing about it.

These are not mutually exclusive facts.

You are atypical. I'd guess less than 25% of the households
are what I'd call healthy.

You make the big mistake of relating my general comments
to your own personal life, not the world at large. That is
just you bragging, and also reacting without thinking. Reacting
without thinking is an emotional characteristic of women.

My friend Steve once told me, "Never date a woman with more
problems than you have". If I took his advice I'd never have a
date.

I've dated many women and few of them were "normal" or
I should say "healthy", since normal--meaning the statistical
"mean" would have to denote weird.

I can trace back most of their adult issues to their childhood.
It is very difficult for anyone to take a good hard look at
their souls to figure out what is damaged and needs to be
fixed. And fewer people can repair the damage themselves.
Compare the number of women in therapy to the number of
men in therapy.

The sad fact is this: There are large numbers of screwed up
women that were the direct result of having screwed up parents
and less than ideal upbringings. The 60% divorce rate backs
this up. It takes to parents AND a healthy home to raise a child
properly.

This applies to men also, but as females are more emotional,
I submit to you, the toll taken on girls is higher. Women tend
to marry younger than men and this is a factor also. Women
with problems, that have children before working out their
problems, are suddenly confronted with new burdens which
demand most of their attention. Some never work out their
problems. The words arrested development come to mind.

My mother grew up in the depression and still makes every
decision based on short term cost. Long range thinking is
beyond her ability. I can imagine the difficulty she faced as
the oldest of eight.

One woman I know has three children by three fathers. I pointed
out she was not a good decision maker. "I was young", she said.
And most recently, "It was an accident." I suspect her last
pregnancy was deliberate and a trap that failed to catch her
intended victim, the little girls father. At 40 she is understandably
desperate to find a man.

I know a woman, in Sacramento, with five children, by
five fathers She has never been married and lives on welfare.
What do you think her childhood life was like?

My poor niece has not been helped by seeing her father
married three times, being uprooted uncountable times, and
missing probably two full years of her education due to
relocations. Huge amounts of effort cannot correct this sort
of damage.

This sort of thing is very common. Remember that 60%
divorce rate?

I've dated women that were abandoned by their fathers.
I can think of at least four women I've dated that would
torpedo a healthy relationship because it didn't "feel" right.
Normal was not normal to these women. Even though
I loved them and could see they had enormous empathy
and wonderfully loving hearts I could not tolerate the crazy
things they would do every few weeks for no apparent
reason. It took me years to figure out what was really going
on. You have to be tough and walk away from relationships
like that.

I've dated many women that were either sexually abused
by relatives, or sexually assaulted as teenagers. The
sexually abused ones were easy to spot. They had little
ambition and passively accepted of everything. The
ones sexually assaulted as teenagers carried this around
for a long time--one could not even look a man in the eye
if he was interested in her. When I met her she was 35
and had not dated since she was raped at age 15.

One lawyer I dated last year thought she was sexually abused
by her father. She admitted she was a sex addict. This could be
good I thought, until I researched it. I finally figured out the reality
of the situation. She would screw other men, if the man she
was dating did not pay enough attention to her. Negative
attention was better than no attention at all. She puts the bulk
of her income and free time into paying therapists to pay attention
to her. All this, I suspect, because her father did not pay enough
attention to her when she was young.

One women I dated was a pathological liar. It took me a while
to figure that one out. I later learned her father would not stay
home and decided after a few years of marriage that he was "gay".
This girl would do or say anything to get her father to stay home,
and it never worked. It turned her into someone who would say
what you wanted to hear, never the truth.

I dated one woman that thought she could achieve world peace
through chanting mantras. Her father, a famous competitor of
DC's was divorced several times and died auto racing when she
was young. I can only imagine what her childhood was like
without her father.

I've dated women that thought it was evil to cut down trees.
WTF? I suggested she give up books and go live in a cave.

I've dated women that I later found out were infertile. Based
on information I've gathered and talking to my doctor, in at
lease one case this was the result of having too many abortions
What sort of standard did their parents set? It is a good example
of Catholic sex guilt. Don't use birth control wait until guilt
forces you to have an abortion instead.

The number of weirdo women out there out in the world far
out-numbers the "normal" ones by a huge margin--especially
in California. The world turns to the east and all the lose nuts
roll west and end up in California.

I've seen lots of women falling in love with alcoholics and drug
addicts. Why would they do that? Perhaps one or both
parents had alcohol problems? Who knows? I can only
guess. Often these end up in divorce and the woman is then
raising children alone and substituting one sort of damage for
another in a child's life.

I've met more than a few women that were ignored by
their fathers, never hugged by their fathers, who today don't
know how to display affection to a man. One woman I
dated was only hugged by her father twice in her life!
What do you think that does to a girl as an adult woman?
I'll tell you. Tis one broke things off whenever a man treated
her nice--it was just not normal for her. She never did get
married, she is raising a daugher by herself. Another one I
know woman is cold and distant and doesn't know how to
hug or kiss, and her one marriage lasted less than a year.
In the last seven years, she has slept alone every night.

I know a lovely single woman that is hooked on a married
man and doesn't have the sense to let go. Her father died
when she was an infant and her mother is bitter and lonely
and impossible to please. This poor gal tries and tries and
never succeeds--that is "normal" for her.

I'm a normal man from what you would call a normal family.
And I'll tell you this. I don't meet any normal single women.
The normal women tend to marry and stay married. What
does that leave on the market? The rejects. The weirdoes.
The welfare cases. The alcoholics. The party girl druggies.

Let me correct myself. I meet lots of "normal" divorced
women. The only issue with these is they never have time
to date and put a man 9th or 10th on their priority list.

The single women I meet, in their 30s, that haven't been
married are not married for a reason! Most of these I've
found were raised by single moms. Some of them put
everything into their career and don't think about family
until it is too late. Others never can find what they want
because they never had a father figure to use as a role
model for picking a husband. I've passed on many women
who couldn't make up their minds. What can you do?
I'm not going to hang around forever. I'd rather go sailing
and have fun than deal with someone else's huge unsolvable
problems.

A woman does the choosing, if they don't chose in time,
they stay single. Try to explain that to a woman and she
will get angry when you point it out. So why bother. A
man has to move on.

I know what I'm talking about katy. I am not a sad, sad
person. I'm a normal healthy man who has eyes to see what
is around me. I'm not the cause, only a witness.

One final note. Any man will tell you, if you pay attention
to a woman she will lose interest, and if you ignore women
then they suddenly get interested. Most women aren't smart
enough to understand that they react without thinking.

Many times this leads them to make bad decisions on marriage.
for the reasons I posted earlier--the young girls interest in boys
and having children outweighs logic and common sense--and
it's a good thing it does, because it ensures the propagation of the
human race. If you want grandchildren, you are more likely
to have them if you have daughters.

Even the most perceptive woman I know has a blind spot. One
friend was unhappy with her sex life, and divorced her husband.
She has gone through dozens of lovers in the last 2 years, tried
lesbianism, partner swapping, nudism, and has had probably
had 300 dates in that time, and complains she can't find the man
she is looking for. I like her as a friend, and shocked her when I
told her I found her lifestyle a turnoff, and considered her high risk.
She claims she gets tested often for AIDs and thinks that is the
answer. What do you think? Here is a woman that is deeply
analytical and atypical.

Should I go on and tell you about the number of stable
relationships I've seen where the man yells at the woman
constantly? Can you explain that one? I can.

None if this is how we would like it in a perfect world. Don't
blame me if the world is not perfect. I didn't make it.

katy,

I think YOU owe ME an apoloGY.

Bart

katysails wrote
Bart,
Like I said, you're a sad, poor man. I can remember back when I was a
teenager and your descriptions don't ring a bell at all.... but I can tell
you plenty of stories about the "focused" boys whose only goals were to
get
into someone's pants or to see how much beer they could swill....I was in
the Honor's program....everyone I ran around with were eggheads...we
thought
a great time was tutoring reading comprehension down in the ghetto...
My daughter's a mechanical engineer....my grand-daughters were not allowed
to watch network television at home until they turned 10 and 12 and then
only with adult supervision. They do not have access to the Internet
without my daughter's presence in the room, for homework research only,
and
they do not have cell phones or even the regular phone to fall back on.
In
fact, my daughter and her husband just moved out of the subdivision
environment so the girl's wouldn't be influenced by peer pressure but have
the larger responsibilities of country living.
All I can think is that you either had a very weak mother, or really
strange
sisters to think that your viewpoints are the average...they are not.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Bart, you've been listening to Paul Simon's "50 Ways to Leave a Lover"
too much! :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
et...
katy,

Sounds like you did a "letter perfect" job parenting. I'd put you
in the top 1%. That hardly qualifies you to make rude comments
about my upbringing, when you know nothing about it.

These are not mutually exclusive facts.

You are atypical. I'd guess less than 25% of the households
are what I'd call healthy.

You make the big mistake of relating my general comments
to your own personal life, not the world at large. That is
just you bragging, and also reacting without thinking. Reacting
without thinking is an emotional characteristic of women.

My friend Steve once told me, "Never date a woman with more
problems than you have". If I took his advice I'd never have a
date.

I've dated many women and few of them were "normal" or
I should say "healthy", since normal--meaning the statistical
"mean" would have to denote weird.

I can trace back most of their adult issues to their childhood.
It is very difficult for anyone to take a good hard look at
their souls to figure out what is damaged and needs to be
fixed. And fewer people can repair the damage themselves.
Compare the number of women in therapy to the number of
men in therapy.

The sad fact is this: There are large numbers of screwed up
women that were the direct result of having screwed up parents
and less than ideal upbringings. The 60% divorce rate backs
this up. It takes to parents AND a healthy home to raise a child
properly.

This applies to men also, but as females are more emotional,
I submit to you, the toll taken on girls is higher. Women tend
to marry younger than men and this is a factor also. Women
with problems, that have children before working out their
problems, are suddenly confronted with new burdens which
demand most of their attention. Some never work out their
problems. The words arrested development come to mind.

My mother grew up in the depression and still makes every
decision based on short term cost. Long range thinking is
beyond her ability. I can imagine the difficulty she faced as
the oldest of eight.

One woman I know has three children by three fathers. I pointed
out she was not a good decision maker. "I was young", she said.
And most recently, "It was an accident." I suspect her last
pregnancy was deliberate and a trap that failed to catch her
intended victim, the little girls father. At 40 she is understandably
desperate to find a man.

I know a woman, in Sacramento, with five children, by
five fathers She has never been married and lives on welfare.
What do you think her childhood life was like?

My poor niece has not been helped by seeing her father
married three times, being uprooted uncountable times, and
missing probably two full years of her education due to
relocations. Huge amounts of effort cannot correct this sort
of damage.

This sort of thing is very common. Remember that 60%
divorce rate?

I've dated women that were abandoned by their fathers.
I can think of at least four women I've dated that would
torpedo a healthy relationship because it didn't "feel" right.
Normal was not normal to these women. Even though
I loved them and could see they had enormous empathy
and wonderfully loving hearts I could not tolerate the crazy
things they would do every few weeks for no apparent
reason. It took me years to figure out what was really going
on. You have to be tough and walk away from relationships
like that.

I've dated many women that were either sexually abused
by relatives, or sexually assaulted as teenagers. The
sexually abused ones were easy to spot. They had little
ambition and passively accepted of everything. The
ones sexually assaulted as teenagers carried this around
for a long time--one could not even look a man in the eye
if he was interested in her. When I met her she was 35
and had not dated since she was raped at age 15.

One lawyer I dated last year thought she was sexually abused
by her father. She admitted she was a sex addict. This could be
good I thought, until I researched it. I finally figured out the reality
of the situation. She would screw other men, if the man she
was dating did not pay enough attention to her. Negative
attention was better than no attention at all. She puts the bulk
of her income and free time into paying therapists to pay attention
to her. All this, I suspect, because her father did not pay enough
attention to her when she was young.

One women I dated was a pathological liar. It took me a while
to figure that one out. I later learned her father would not stay
home and decided after a few years of marriage that he was "gay".
This girl would do or say anything to get her father to stay home,
and it never worked. It turned her into someone who would say
what you wanted to hear, never the truth.

I dated one woman that thought she could achieve world peace
through chanting mantras. Her father, a famous competitor of
DC's was divorced several times and died auto racing when she
was young. I can only imagine what her childhood was like
without her father.

I've dated women that thought it was evil to cut down trees.
WTF? I suggested she give up books and go live in a cave.

I've dated women that I later found out were infertile. Based
on information I've gathered and talking to my doctor, in at
lease one case this was the result of having too many abortions
What sort of standard did their parents set? It is a good example
of Catholic sex guilt. Don't use birth control wait until guilt
forces you to have an abortion instead.

The number of weirdo women out there out in the world far
out-numbers the "normal" ones by a huge margin--especially
in California. The world turns to the east and all the lose nuts
roll west and end up in California.

I've seen lots of women falling in love with alcoholics and drug
addicts. Why would they do that? Perhaps one or both
parents had alcohol problems? Who knows? I can only
guess. Often these end up in divorce and the woman is then
raising children alone and substituting one sort of damage for
another in a child's life.

I've met more than a few women that were ignored by
their fathers, never hugged by their fathers, who today don't
know how to display affection to a man. One woman I
dated was only hugged by her father twice in her life!
What do you think that does to a girl as an adult woman?
I'll tell you. Tis one broke things off whenever a man treated
her nice--it was just not normal for her. She never did get
married, she is raising a daugher by herself. Another one I
know woman is cold and distant and doesn't know how to
hug or kiss, and her one marriage lasted less than a year.
In the last seven years, she has slept alone every night.

I know a lovely single woman that is hooked on a married
man and doesn't have the sense to let go. Her father died
when she was an infant and her mother is bitter and lonely
and impossible to please. This poor gal tries and tries and
never succeeds--that is "normal" for her.

I'm a normal man from what you would call a normal family.
And I'll tell you this. I don't meet any normal single women.
The normal women tend to marry and stay married. What
does that leave on the market? The rejects. The weirdoes.
The welfare cases. The alcoholics. The party girl druggies.

Let me correct myself. I meet lots of "normal" divorced
women. The only issue with these is they never have time
to date and put a man 9th or 10th on their priority list.

The single women I meet, in their 30s, that haven't been
married are not married for a reason! Most of these I've
found were raised by single moms. Some of them put
everything into their career and don't think about family
until it is too late. Others never can find what they want
because they never had a father figure to use as a role
model for picking a husband. I've passed on many women
who couldn't make up their minds. What can you do?
I'm not going to hang around forever. I'd rather go sailing
and have fun than deal with someone else's huge unsolvable
problems.

A woman does the choosing, if they don't chose in time,
they stay single. Try to explain that to a woman and she
will get angry when you point it out. So why bother. A
man has to move on.

I know what I'm talking about katy. I am not a sad, sad
person. I'm a normal healthy man who has eyes to see what
is around me. I'm not the cause, only a witness.

One final note. Any man will tell you, if you pay attention
to a woman she will lose interest, and if you ignore women
then they suddenly get interested. Most women aren't smart
enough to understand that they react without thinking.

Many times this leads them to make bad decisions on marriage.
for the reasons I posted earlier--the young girls interest in boys
and having children outweighs logic and common sense--and
it's a good thing it does, because it ensures the propagation of the
human race. If you want grandchildren, you are more likely
to have them if you have daughters.

Even the most perceptive woman I know has a blind spot. One
friend was unhappy with her sex life, and divorced her husband.
She has gone through dozens of lovers in the last 2 years, tried
lesbianism, partner swapping, nudism, and has had probably
had 300 dates in that time, and complains she can't find the man
she is looking for. I like her as a friend, and shocked her when I
told her I found her lifestyle a turnoff, and considered her high risk.
She claims she gets tested often for AIDs and thinks that is the
answer. What do you think? Here is a woman that is deeply
analytical and atypical.

Should I go on and tell you about the number of stable
relationships I've seen where the man yells at the woman
constantly? Can you explain that one? I can.

None if this is how we would like it in a perfect world. Don't
blame me if the world is not perfect. I didn't make it.

katy,

I think YOU owe ME an apoloGY.

Bart

katysails wrote
Bart,
Like I said, you're a sad, poor man. I can remember back when I was a
teenager and your descriptions don't ring a bell at all.... but I can
tell
you plenty of stories about the "focused" boys whose only goals were to
get
into someone's pants or to see how much beer they could swill....I was
in
the Honor's program....everyone I ran around with were eggheads...we
thought
a great time was tutoring reading comprehension down in the ghetto...
My daughter's a mechanical engineer....my grand-daughters were not
allowed
to watch network television at home until they turned 10 and 12 and then
only with adult supervision. They do not have access to the Internet
without my daughter's presence in the room, for homework research only,
and
they do not have cell phones or even the regular phone to fall back on.
In
fact, my daughter and her husband just moved out of the subdivision
environment so the girl's wouldn't be influenced by peer pressure but
have
the larger responsibilities of country living.
All I can think is that you either had a very weak mother, or really
strange
sisters to think that your viewpoints are the average...they are not.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax

and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Wow! After reading this, I went and kissed my wife and said.''thanks hon''.


Scotty


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
et...
katy,

Sounds like you did a "letter perfect" job parenting. I'd put you
in the top 1%. That hardly qualifies you to make rude comments
about my upbringing, when you know nothing about it.

These are not mutually exclusive facts.

You are atypical. I'd guess less than 25% of the households
are what I'd call healthy.

You make the big mistake of relating my general comments
to your own personal life, not the world at large. That is
just you bragging, and also reacting without thinking. Reacting
without thinking is an emotional characteristic of women.

My friend Steve once told me, "Never date a woman with more
problems than you have". If I took his advice I'd never have a
date.

I've dated many women and few of them were "normal" or
I should say "healthy", since normal--meaning the statistical
"mean" would have to denote weird.

I can trace back most of their adult issues to their childhood.
It is very difficult for anyone to take a good hard look at
their souls to figure out what is damaged and needs to be
fixed. And fewer people can repair the damage themselves.
Compare the number of women in therapy to the number of
men in therapy.

The sad fact is this: There are large numbers of screwed up
women that were the direct result of having screwed up parents
and less than ideal upbringings. The 60% divorce rate backs
this up. It takes to parents AND a healthy home to raise a child
properly.

This applies to men also, but as females are more emotional,
I submit to you, the toll taken on girls is higher. Women tend
to marry younger than men and this is a factor also. Women
with problems, that have children before working out their
problems, are suddenly confronted with new burdens which
demand most of their attention. Some never work out their
problems. The words arrested development come to mind.

My mother grew up in the depression and still makes every
decision based on short term cost. Long range thinking is
beyond her ability. I can imagine the difficulty she faced as
the oldest of eight.

One woman I know has three children by three fathers. I pointed
out she was not a good decision maker. "I was young", she said.
And most recently, "It was an accident." I suspect her last
pregnancy was deliberate and a trap that failed to catch her
intended victim, the little girls father. At 40 she is understandably
desperate to find a man.

I know a woman, in Sacramento, with five children, by
five fathers She has never been married and lives on welfare.
What do you think her childhood life was like?

My poor niece has not been helped by seeing her father
married three times, being uprooted uncountable times, and
missing probably two full years of her education due to
relocations. Huge amounts of effort cannot correct this sort
of damage.

This sort of thing is very common. Remember that 60%
divorce rate?

I've dated women that were abandoned by their fathers.
I can think of at least four women I've dated that would
torpedo a healthy relationship because it didn't "feel" right.
Normal was not normal to these women. Even though
I loved them and could see they had enormous empathy
and wonderfully loving hearts I could not tolerate the crazy
things they would do every few weeks for no apparent
reason. It took me years to figure out what was really going
on. You have to be tough and walk away from relationships
like that.

I've dated many women that were either sexually abused
by relatives, or sexually assaulted as teenagers. The
sexually abused ones were easy to spot. They had little
ambition and passively accepted of everything. The
ones sexually assaulted as teenagers carried this around
for a long time--one could not even look a man in the eye
if he was interested in her. When I met her she was 35
and had not dated since she was raped at age 15.

One lawyer I dated last year thought she was sexually abused
by her father. She admitted she was a sex addict. This could be
good I thought, until I researched it. I finally figured out the reality
of the situation. She would screw other men, if the man she
was dating did not pay enough attention to her. Negative
attention was better than no attention at all. She puts the bulk
of her income and free time into paying therapists to pay attention
to her. All this, I suspect, because her father did not pay enough
attention to her when she was young.

One women I dated was a pathological liar. It took me a while
to figure that one out. I later learned her father would not stay
home and decided after a few years of marriage that he was "gay".
This girl would do or say anything to get her father to stay home,
and it never worked. It turned her into someone who would say
what you wanted to hear, never the truth.

I dated one woman that thought she could achieve world peace
through chanting mantras. Her father, a famous competitor of
DC's was divorced several times and died auto racing when she
was young. I can only imagine what her childhood was like
without her father.

I've dated women that thought it was evil to cut down trees.
WTF? I suggested she give up books and go live in a cave.

I've dated women that I later found out were infertile. Based
on information I've gathered and talking to my doctor, in at
lease one case this was the result of having too many abortions
What sort of standard did their parents set? It is a good example
of Catholic sex guilt. Don't use birth control wait until guilt
forces you to have an abortion instead.

The number of weirdo women out there out in the world far
out-numbers the "normal" ones by a huge margin--especially
in California. The world turns to the east and all the lose nuts
roll west and end up in California.

I've seen lots of women falling in love with alcoholics and drug
addicts. Why would they do that? Perhaps one or both
parents had alcohol problems? Who knows? I can only
guess. Often these end up in divorce and the woman is then
raising children alone and substituting one sort of damage for
another in a child's life.

I've met more than a few women that were ignored by
their fathers, never hugged by their fathers, who today don't
know how to display affection to a man. One woman I
dated was only hugged by her father twice in her life!
What do you think that does to a girl as an adult woman?
I'll tell you. Tis one broke things off whenever a man treated
her nice--it was just not normal for her. She never did get
married, she is raising a daugher by herself. Another one I
know woman is cold and distant and doesn't know how to
hug or kiss, and her one marriage lasted less than a year.
In the last seven years, she has slept alone every night.

I know a lovely single woman that is hooked on a married
man and doesn't have the sense to let go. Her father died
when she was an infant and her mother is bitter and lonely
and impossible to please. This poor gal tries and tries and
never succeeds--that is "normal" for her.

I'm a normal man from what you would call a normal family.
And I'll tell you this. I don't meet any normal single women.
The normal women tend to marry and stay married. What
does that leave on the market? The rejects. The weirdoes.
The welfare cases. The alcoholics. The party girl druggies.

Let me correct myself. I meet lots of "normal" divorced
women. The only issue with these is they never have time
to date and put a man 9th or 10th on their priority list.

The single women I meet, in their 30s, that haven't been
married are not married for a reason! Most of these I've
found were raised by single moms. Some of them put
everything into their career and don't think about family
until it is too late. Others never can find what they want
because they never had a father figure to use as a role
model for picking a husband. I've passed on many women
who couldn't make up their minds. What can you do?
I'm not going to hang around forever. I'd rather go sailing
and have fun than deal with someone else's huge unsolvable
problems.

A woman does the choosing, if they don't chose in time,
they stay single. Try to explain that to a woman and she
will get angry when you point it out. So why bother. A
man has to move on.

I know what I'm talking about katy. I am not a sad, sad
person. I'm a normal healthy man who has eyes to see what
is around me. I'm not the cause, only a witness.

One final note. Any man will tell you, if you pay attention
to a woman she will lose interest, and if you ignore women
then they suddenly get interested. Most women aren't smart
enough to understand that they react without thinking.

Many times this leads them to make bad decisions on marriage.
for the reasons I posted earlier--the young girls interest in boys
and having children outweighs logic and common sense--and
it's a good thing it does, because it ensures the propagation of the
human race. If you want grandchildren, you are more likely
to have them if you have daughters.

Even the most perceptive woman I know has a blind spot. One
friend was unhappy with her sex life, and divorced her husband.
She has gone through dozens of lovers in the last 2 years, tried
lesbianism, partner swapping, nudism, and has had probably
had 300 dates in that time, and complains she can't find the man
she is looking for. I like her as a friend, and shocked her when I
told her I found her lifestyle a turnoff, and considered her high risk.
She claims she gets tested often for AIDs and thinks that is the
answer. What do you think? Here is a woman that is deeply
analytical and atypical.

Should I go on and tell you about the number of stable
relationships I've seen where the man yells at the woman
constantly? Can you explain that one? I can.

None if this is how we would like it in a perfect world. Don't
blame me if the world is not perfect. I didn't make it.

katy,

I think YOU owe ME an apoloGY.

Bart

katysails wrote
Bart,
Like I said, you're a sad, poor man. I can remember back when I was a
teenager and your descriptions don't ring a bell at all.... but I can
tell
you plenty of stories about the "focused" boys whose only goals were to
get
into someone's pants or to see how much beer they could swill....I was
in
the Honor's program....everyone I ran around with were eggheads...we
thought
a great time was tutoring reading comprehension down in the ghetto...
My daughter's a mechanical engineer....my grand-daughters were not
allowed
to watch network television at home until they turned 10 and 12 and then
only with adult supervision. They do not have access to the Internet
without my daughter's presence in the room, for homework research only,
and
they do not have cell phones or even the regular phone to fall back on.
In
fact, my daughter and her husband just moved out of the subdivision
environment so the girl's wouldn't be influenced by peer pressure but
have
the larger responsibilities of country living.
All I can think is that you either had a very weak mother, or really
strange
sisters to think that your viewpoints are the average...they are not.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Bart,
Has it not occurred to you that the great majority of the scenarios you
relate about these poor women were created by men? Little girls don't
sexually abuse themselves. Women don't have 5 kids by 5 men by
themselves....(or in that case, are you saying that women are smarter than
men and "trick" them into sex? Like the men had no part in it???) Stop
dating the dregs of the earth. You are not looking in the right places for
the right women. Why would you even date someone who has 5 kids by 5
men????? Isn't that a warning sign to you? I'm seeing indications that you
don't see warning signs up front....but then, the women I've spoken about
would not hop into bed with a man on even the 4th date, so maybe that's the
problem?

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 6/27/2004

You make the big mistake of relating my general comments
to your own personal life, not the world at large.

Wrong...I work with the world at alrge, especially young ladies...I'm an HR
Manager... I've got young women holding everything together, working a
menial job as a CNA while completing nursing school....I've got a degreed
person working the reception desk at our retirement complex while she
completes her Master's. Our Executive Director holds a Master's in
Management and a Master's in Nursing. The former administrator of our
nursing facility is going on to obtain an RN degree on top of her
Adminsitrative license. If I go outside the workplace, to the choir I sing
in, I find women who are teachers, a VP of one of the largest banks in the
US, and a lawyer. You look down a very narrow slot when you lump women into
such a general category.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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