Teaching question OT
 

You make the big mistake of relating my general comments
to your own personal life, not the world at large.

Wrong...I work with the world at alrge, especially young ladies...I'm an HR
Manager... I've got young women holding everything together, working a
menial job as a CNA while completing nursing school....I've got a degreed
person working the reception desk at our retirement complex while she
completes her Master's. Our Executive Director holds a Master's in
Management and a Master's in Nursing. The former administrator of our
nursing facility is going on to obtain an RN degree on top of her
Adminsitrative license. If I go outside the workplace, to the choir I sing
in, I find women who are teachers, a VP of one of the largest banks in the
US, and a lawyer. You look down a very narrow slot when you lump women into
such a general category.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Teaching question OT
 

Bart,
Has it not occurred to you that the great majority of the scenarios you
relate about these poor women were created by men? Little girls don't
sexually abuse themselves. Women don't have 5 kids by 5 men by
themselves....(or in that case, are you saying that women are smarter than
men and "trick" them into sex? Like the men had no part in it???) Stop
dating the dregs of the earth. You are not looking in the right places for
the right women. Why would you even date someone who has 5 kids by 5
men????? Isn't that a warning sign to you? I'm seeing indications that you
don't see warning signs up front....but then, the women I've spoken about
would not hop into bed with a man on even the 4th date, so maybe that's the
problem?

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Teaching question
 

Pony Express wrote:
Jim Muldoon (aka Donnybrook, a custom 72), just
released documentation on his 'Brendan in a box'
program. While the program is little different
that what we've been doing for all our kids, it
stresses the differences in learning styles.
People learn differently and a good instructor
will use different methods to teach so that all
will learn.

Yes, this is important... although IMHO it's a bit much to expect a
teacher to adapt his teaching style to 15 or 25 different "learning
styles" all at once... it's more realistic to expect that he present the
material in a way that is available to all, and then go back and repeat
in different ways for different students (of course, some will not need
extra attention).

The best quality in a teacher IMHO is being able to motivate students.
To make learning fun, make the knowledge/skills interesting, to teach
how to apply what is learned to real life. A person who cannot do this
at all isn't a teacher, period. A person who is great at it will be a
great teacher even if their own skill/knowledge in that area isn't so
hot. I've known a number of very good sailors who were unable to teach
sailing.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Teaching question
 

Here's an update. I figured that part of her problem was getting
overwhelmed by having to deal with two sails. I've seen this
before, where students understand what they need to do to
tack or whatever, but because they've got both a main and
a jib, they tend to focus on one rather than the other. This is
really true on the first day or so, but after they get a bit more
comfortable, they seem to be able to deal with it.

So, I decided to have the class sail with just the main for the
first time out. It worked really well. They could tack without
stalling or going from close hauled to run. They got a good
feel for where the wind was and only had to trim the main
to sail efficiently. I found that even this particular student
seemed a lot less anxious about getting the boat moving.
The more advanced student seemed to do fine also, but
I suspect she'd like to see the jib up next time. I'm thinking
about having one boat with a jib and one without. Perhaps
having the weaker students take the one without, then
switching to the other after an hour or so. Then, I'll have
the more advanced students raise the jib after they switch,
and everyone will be equal again.

I liked a lot of the suggestions from you guys...thanks!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Hey, here's an on-topic post.... sorry.

I had a student yesterday who just does not seem to get
it at all. She spent nearly 2 hours rigging a very simple
Holder 20. Literally, a main, a jib, and that's about it.
Most students take 30 minutes tops the first time out. It
seemed like everything was a struggle for her.

I'm not sure how to proceed. When we finally got out on
the water, she did ok, but was very hesitant with almost
zero self-confidence, especially about gybing, even though
the wind was very light on the lake.

I hate to dissuade her completely from sailing, but I also
hate having her waste her money on lessons. She's had
two other instructors prior to me, and took the full basic
sailing class. Obviously, she's trying really hard... said
she wants some independence from her husband, her
own hobby, etc. I talked to one of the other instructors,
and he said basically the same thing... doesn't know
why she's having problems like this... didn't know what
to do.

She's got the basic book, she can usually tie a bowline
the first time in about 5-10 seconds, but then she gets
totally stuck on a stopper knot (fig 8). I saw her take
3-4 minutes to do it right, even with me talking her
through it and showing her countless times.

Has anyone had a student like this? What did you do?

10 NG pts for a workable solution.

Jonathan

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Teaching question OT
 

Bart,

A touching piece. It sounds like you have more dates in a week than Ganz
does in a decade. I would suggest trying Dr. Neal Warren's online
matchmaking service www.eharmony.com , I've heard nothing but accolades
about it.
As for you women out there, I strongly suggest you read Dr. Laura's "The
Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands", even if you are not married.

As for Katysails, at times she doesn't realize that she is the very rare
exceptional woman and you can't really find any fault in that. Though she
sets the bar too high for others, she has easily vaulted it herself and it
is a worthy goal for any woman to aspire to, even though they may fail
miserably.

BC

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
et...
katy,

Sounds like you did a "letter perfect" job parenting. I'd put you
in the top 1%. That hardly qualifies you to make rude comments
about my upbringing, when you know nothing about it.

These are not mutually exclusive facts.

You are atypical. I'd guess less than 25% of the households
are what I'd call healthy.

You make the big mistake of relating my general comments
to your own personal life, not the world at large. That is
just you bragging, and also reacting without thinking. Reacting
without thinking is an emotional characteristic of women.

My friend Steve once told me, "Never date a woman with more
problems than you have". If I took his advice I'd never have a
date.

I've dated many women and few of them were "normal" or
I should say "healthy", since normal--meaning the statistical
"mean" would have to denote weird.

I can trace back most of their adult issues to their childhood.
It is very difficult for anyone to take a good hard look at
their souls to figure out what is damaged and needs to be
fixed. And fewer people can repair the damage themselves.
Compare the number of women in therapy to the number of
men in therapy.

The sad fact is this: There are large numbers of screwed up
women that were the direct result of having screwed up parents
and less than ideal upbringings. The 60% divorce rate backs
this up. It takes to parents AND a healthy home to raise a child
properly.

This applies to men also, but as females are more emotional,
I submit to you, the toll taken on girls is higher. Women tend
to marry younger than men and this is a factor also. Women
with problems, that have children before working out their
problems, are suddenly confronted with new burdens which
demand most of their attention. Some never work out their
problems. The words arrested development come to mind.

My mother grew up in the depression and still makes every
decision based on short term cost. Long range thinking is
beyond her ability. I can imagine the difficulty she faced as
the oldest of eight.

One woman I know has three children by three fathers. I pointed
out she was not a good decision maker. "I was young", she said.
And most recently, "It was an accident." I suspect her last
pregnancy was deliberate and a trap that failed to catch her
intended victim, the little girls father. At 40 she is understandably
desperate to find a man.

I know a woman, in Sacramento, with five children, by
five fathers She has never been married and lives on welfare.
What do you think her childhood life was like?

My poor niece has not been helped by seeing her father
married three times, being uprooted uncountable times, and
missing probably two full years of her education due to
relocations. Huge amounts of effort cannot correct this sort
of damage.

This sort of thing is very common. Remember that 60%
divorce rate?

I've dated women that were abandoned by their fathers.
I can think of at least four women I've dated that would
torpedo a healthy relationship because it didn't "feel" right.
Normal was not normal to these women. Even though
I loved them and could see they had enormous empathy
and wonderfully loving hearts I could not tolerate the crazy
things they would do every few weeks for no apparent
reason. It took me years to figure out what was really going
on. You have to be tough and walk away from relationships
like that.

I've dated many women that were either sexually abused
by relatives, or sexually assaulted as teenagers. The
sexually abused ones were easy to spot. They had little
ambition and passively accepted of everything. The
ones sexually assaulted as teenagers carried this around
for a long time--one could not even look a man in the eye
if he was interested in her. When I met her she was 35
and had not dated since she was raped at age 15.

One lawyer I dated last year thought she was sexually abused
by her father. She admitted she was a sex addict. This could be
good I thought, until I researched it. I finally figured out the reality
of the situation. She would screw other men, if the man she
was dating did not pay enough attention to her. Negative
attention was better than no attention at all. She puts the bulk
of her income and free time into paying therapists to pay attention
to her. All this, I suspect, because her father did not pay enough
attention to her when she was young.

One women I dated was a pathological liar. It took me a while
to figure that one out. I later learned her father would not stay
home and decided after a few years of marriage that he was "gay".
This girl would do or say anything to get her father to stay home,
and it never worked. It turned her into someone who would say
what you wanted to hear, never the truth.

I dated one woman that thought she could achieve world peace
through chanting mantras. Her father, a famous competitor of
DC's was divorced several times and died auto racing when she
was young. I can only imagine what her childhood was like
without her father.

I've dated women that thought it was evil to cut down trees.
WTF? I suggested she give up books and go live in a cave.

I've dated women that I later found out were infertile. Based
on information I've gathered and talking to my doctor, in at
lease one case this was the result of having too many abortions
What sort of standard did their parents set? It is a good example
of Catholic sex guilt. Don't use birth control wait until guilt
forces you to have an abortion instead.

The number of weirdo women out there out in the world far
out-numbers the "normal" ones by a huge margin--especially
in California. The world turns to the east and all the lose nuts
roll west and end up in California.

I've seen lots of women falling in love with alcoholics and drug
addicts. Why would they do that? Perhaps one or both
parents had alcohol problems? Who knows? I can only
guess. Often these end up in divorce and the woman is then
raising children alone and substituting one sort of damage for
another in a child's life.

I've met more than a few women that were ignored by
their fathers, never hugged by their fathers, who today don't
know how to display affection to a man. One woman I
dated was only hugged by her father twice in her life!
What do you think that does to a girl as an adult woman?
I'll tell you. Tis one broke things off whenever a man treated
her nice--it was just not normal for her. She never did get
married, she is raising a daugher by herself. Another one I
know woman is cold and distant and doesn't know how to
hug or kiss, and her one marriage lasted less than a year.
In the last seven years, she has slept alone every night.

I know a lovely single woman that is hooked on a married
man and doesn't have the sense to let go. Her father died
when she was an infant and her mother is bitter and lonely
and impossible to please. This poor gal tries and tries and
never succeeds--that is "normal" for her.

I'm a normal man from what you would call a normal family.
And I'll tell you this. I don't meet any normal single women.
The normal women tend to marry and stay married. What
does that leave on the market? The rejects. The weirdoes.
The welfare cases. The alcoholics. The party girl druggies.

Let me correct myself. I meet lots of "normal" divorced
women. The only issue with these is they never have time
to date and put a man 9th or 10th on their priority list.

The single women I meet, in their 30s, that haven't been
married are not married for a reason! Most of these I've
found were raised by single moms. Some of them put
everything into their career and don't think about family
until it is too late. Others never can find what they want
because they never had a father figure to use as a role
model for picking a husband. I've passed on many women
who couldn't make up their minds. What can you do?
I'm not going to hang around forever. I'd rather go sailing
and have fun than deal with someone else's huge unsolvable
problems.

A woman does the choosing, if they don't chose in time,
they stay single. Try to explain that to a woman and she
will get angry when you point it out. So why bother. A
man has to move on.

I know what I'm talking about katy. I am not a sad, sad
person. I'm a normal healthy man who has eyes to see what
is around me. I'm not the cause, only a witness.

One final note. Any man will tell you, if you pay attention
to a woman she will lose interest, and if you ignore women
then they suddenly get interested. Most women aren't smart
enough to understand that they react without thinking.

Many times this leads them to make bad decisions on marriage.
for the reasons I posted earlier--the young girls interest in boys
and having children outweighs logic and common sense--and
it's a good thing it does, because it ensures the propagation of the
human race. If you want grandchildren, you are more likely
to have them if you have daughters.

Even the most perceptive woman I know has a blind spot. One
friend was unhappy with her sex life, and divorced her husband.
She has gone through dozens of lovers in the last 2 years, tried
lesbianism, partner swapping, nudism, and has had probably
had 300 dates in that time, and complains she can't find the man
she is looking for. I like her as a friend, and shocked her when I
told her I found her lifestyle a turnoff, and considered her high risk.
She claims she gets tested often for AIDs and thinks that is the
answer. What do you think? Here is a woman that is deeply
analytical and atypical.

Should I go on and tell you about the number of stable
relationships I've seen where the man yells at the woman
constantly? Can you explain that one? I can.

None if this is how we would like it in a perfect world. Don't
blame me if the world is not perfect. I didn't make it.

katy,

I think YOU owe ME an apoloGY.

Bart

katysails wrote
Bart,
Like I said, you're a sad, poor man. I can remember back when I was a
teenager and your descriptions don't ring a bell at all.... but I can
tell
you plenty of stories about the "focused" boys whose only goals were to
get
into someone's pants or to see how much beer they could swill....I was
in
the Honor's program....everyone I ran around with were eggheads...we
thought
a great time was tutoring reading comprehension down in the ghetto...
My daughter's a mechanical engineer....my grand-daughters were not
allowed
to watch network television at home until they turned 10 and 12 and then
only with adult supervision. They do not have access to the Internet
without my daughter's presence in the room, for homework research only,
and
they do not have cell phones or even the regular phone to fall back on.
In
fact, my daughter and her husband just moved out of the subdivision
environment so the girl's wouldn't be influenced by peer pressure but
have
the larger responsibilities of country living.
All I can think is that you either had a very weak mother, or really
strange
sisters to think that your viewpoints are the average...they are not.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Teaching question OT
 

As for Katysails...a bunch of lame stuff....

Thanks, Neal...

BTW, I'm sorry that Bart thinks my opinions in this discussion are rude. I
as not overtly trying to be rude to him, but was incensed that he would lump
every female in the world into his little categories of gloom and
despair....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Teaching question OT
 

Bart, stop cruising the strip clubs and the gutters for dates. Why are you
only attracted to losers? Didn't your mom hug you when you were little?

Dr. Scotty

Teaching question OT
 

Your children are a legacy to that spirit which is yours, and also could
have been Barts.

BC


"katysails" wrote in message
...
As for Katysails...a bunch of lame stuff....

Thanks, Neal...

BTW, I'm sorry that Bart thinks my opinions in this discussion are rude.
I
as not overtly trying to be rude to him, but was incensed that he would
lump
every female in the world into his little categories of gloom and
despair....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Teaching question
 

I would never put an instructor with 15 - 25
students. We max at 10 students / instructor,
plus we give each instructor a knowledgeable
assistant.
I hired a girl last year as an assistant who was a
weak sailor, but I saw great potential. Trained
her, got her racing. This year she's probably my
best instructor; maybe because it's all still so
fresh for her, but she gets it across to even the
slowest kids.
S.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
: Pony Express wrote:
: Jim Muldoon (aka Donnybrook, a custom 72),
just
: released documentation on his 'Brendan in a
box'
: program. While the program is little
different
: that what we've been doing for all our kids,
it
: stresses the differences in learning styles.
: People learn differently and a good instructor
: will use different methods to teach so that
all
: will learn.
:
: Yes, this is important... although IMHO it's a
bit much to expect a
: teacher to adapt his teaching style to 15 or 25
different "learning
: styles" all at once... it's more realistic to
expect that he present the
: material in a way that is available to all, and
then go back and repeat
: in different ways for different students (of
course, some will not need
: extra attention).
:
: The best quality in a teacher IMHO is being able
to motivate students.
: To make learning fun, make the knowledge/skills
interesting, to teach
: how to apply what is learned to real life. A
person who cannot do this
: at all isn't a teacher, period. A person who is
great at it will be a
: great teacher even if their own skill/knowledge
in that area isn't so
: hot. I've known a number of very good sailors
who were unable to teach
: sailing.
:
: Fresh Breezes- Doug King
:

Teaching question
 

This is a great thread. Here are a few things to consider when teaching:
1. It's all about patience.
2. You can't teach everyone the same amount in the same time frames (are you
listening Mr. Bush?).
3. If the student knows more at the end of the lesson than when they started
the lesson, the lesson was successful.
4. Some students need more lessons than others to meet the course
objectives.
5. A good student is a good student; gender is irrelevant.
6. You are both the teacher and the student; recognize that you can learn
from everyone.
7. It's all about patience.

Scout.
"profanity and obscenity entitle people who don't want unpleasant
information to close their ears and eyes to you."
Kurt Vonnegut


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Hey, here's an on-topic post.... sorry.

I had a student yesterday who just does not seem to get
it at all. She spent nearly 2 hours rigging a very simple
Holder 20. Literally, a main, a jib, and that's about it.
Most students take 30 minutes tops the first time out. It
seemed like everything was a struggle for her.

I'm not sure how to proceed. When we finally got out on
the water, she did ok, but was very hesitant with almost
zero self-confidence, especially about gybing, even though
the wind was very light on the lake.

I hate to dissuade her completely from sailing, but I also
hate having her waste her money on lessons. She's had
two other instructors prior to me, and took the full basic
sailing class. Obviously, she's trying really hard... said
she wants some independence from her husband, her
own hobby, etc. I talked to one of the other instructors,
and he said basically the same thing... doesn't know
why she's having problems like this... didn't know what
to do.

She's got the basic book, she can usually tie a bowline
the first time in about 5-10 seconds, but then she gets
totally stuck on a stopper knot (fig 8). I saw her take
3-4 minutes to do it right, even with me talking her
through it and showing her countless times.

Has anyone had a student like this? What did you do?

10 NG pts for a workable solution.

Jonathan

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com