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Teaching question
Don't assume men instructors are not sensitive to these things.
The longer you teach the better you get at it. Some students don't respond to even the best instruction. Such people are a danger to themselves and others. I'm not assuming that at all...Job's scenario, though, triggered some thoughts that that might be the problem....I think it has a lot more to do with personality types than gender in a lot of cases. I personally do not learn well from touchy-feely, oh I understand, smiley types but do much better with the direct, this is the way it is approach. Some people can't tolerate that. Some women (and men) mind being sworn at...they take it personally rather than as a character trait of the person swearing. It's all in how you've been raised and how you've learned to learn. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 6/27/2004 |
Teaching question
Katy, you might want to consider ignoring this particular sockpuppet.
Seems like he's pushing your buttons, and it's early. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "katysails" wrote in message ... blanket generalizations as you are in several of your statements ("women do lag behind men in these areas, but it is because those areas are not stressed as being important in their younger lives....") That is not a generalization, that is a fact, supported by numerous educational studies regarding the emphasis on teaching math in secondary grades...you look them up...they're there... Why is it that women always seek something to complain about rather than accept things at face value? I;I'm not complaining...I'm correcting your erroneous viewpoint...I take most thing s at face value... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 6/27/2004 |
Teaching question
I don't think she's making that assumption, but I do think that
many male instructors don't communicate as well with women students as they do with male students. I've seen this happen over and over. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Bart Senior" wrote in message et... katy Don't assume men instructors are not senstive to these things. The longer you teach the better you get at it. Some students don't respond to even the best instruction. Such people are a danger to themselves and others. katysails wrote Stop looking for miracles and start praising the little bitty achievements. You guys have got her so afraid she's going to do something wrong that she's agonizing over making everything right. She might have some |
Teaching question
How about if I tell her you're gay, but that you're accepting of
straight women. Do you think that'll work? I wouldn't want to lie to her. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... It's obvious, Jon. She's got the hots for you. In her own demented little mind, she looks up to you and wants your attention. Just tell her you're gay and that there's no chance for her. Dr. Scott "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... No. This was her first time. I can do it in 15 minutes. Most of the students can do it in 1/2 hour at their second try. I'm thinking that the best approach is to get her in with other students. They tend to help each other. We do have two boats. The next class I teach will have four in each. Can't tip these without raising the centerboard. It's heavy enough to sink if it goes over. We use the Holder 14 for this, and she's already taken that class, so she got some experience capsizing. That can't be it. I'm going to keep trying. At least until her money runs out. :-) -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Joe" wrote in message om... "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... Hey, here's an on-topic post.... sorry. I had a student yesterday who just does not seem to get it at all. She spent nearly 2 hours rigging a very simple Holder 20. Literally, a main, a jib, and that's about it. Most students take 30 minutes tops the first time out. It seemed like everything was a struggle for her. 2 hours is a bit long... Has she rigged that boat before? If so you need to pull another boat up next to her and challenge her to a rigging race. Explain to her that you think it she has a problem and you want to find out her weakness. A race is a good way to see what she does not understand. Stop the race and address the issues as they arise. You do have 2 boats right? If not do it with a stop watch. I'm not sure how to proceed. When we finally got out on the water, she did ok, but was very hesitant with almost zero self-confidence, especially about gybing, even though the wind was very light on the lake. Why? is she afraid the boat will tip over. If so you need to go ahead and filp it over. Better yet have her flip it over. Offer her a free day if she can flip it on a light wind day without shifting ballast. I hate to dissuade her completely from sailing, but I also hate having her waste her money on lessons. She's had two other instructors prior to me, and took the full basic sailing class. Obviously, she's trying really hard... said she wants some independence from her husband, her own hobby, etc. Then there is no question....if you are indeed and instructor you keep teaching as long as she is willing to try. I talked to one of the other instructors, and he said basically the same thing... doesn't know why she's having problems like this... didn't know what to do. Shouldent you address all these issues up front with her? Perhaps hand her a report card, and teach her how to improve her grades! She's got the basic book, she can usually tie a bowline the first time in about 5-10 seconds, but then she gets totally stuck on a stopper knot (fig 8). I saw her take 3-4 minutes to do it right, even with me talking her through it and showing her countless times. Homework. Is that so important? Has anyone had a student like this? What did you do? I've had many, they were called Deckhands. As long as they keep coming back saying thats what they want to do, and they try hard, and dont give up you stick with em. If they are totally lost and have no chance of ever making it no matter what ...........you got to let em know. They might beg for another chance then you have to set a standard and tell them if they can not meet the standard they must leave. How high you set your standards is up to you. She sounds to me like she honestly wants to keep going at it and she keeps trying. Thats good enough for me, as long as she is not a danger to herself or anyone else. Joe 10 NG pts for a workable solution. Jonathan |
Teaching question
I disagree with you katy,
This may not be politically correct, but political correctness has no place on a boat where lives are at stake. One cannot correct a problem without recognizing what it is first. The genetic pre-disposition beween males and females is radically different--as in "way far" apart. You say so yourself, katy, every day... "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein If women (girls) lag behind men, it has nothing to do with what is stressed when they are young. I have an 12 year old niece. It doesn't matter what I stress is important. I've tried everything with her in the last few years. She does what she pleases and has closed her mind to me. It is plain that learning is less important to girls, while boys pay attention and learn. Young girls are emotional and spend all their time thinking about boys, cloths, getting married, and children. During that time boys are training for leadership and developing confidence building skills. It is no wonder that boys think girls are stupid when they see that the girls don't pay attention and rarely have career goals when they are young. The only effective means of teaching a girl at a young age might be a cattle prod. I doubt anything else would get her attention. Girls focus on getting a boy to the excusion of all else. Once they get older and marry, their outlook changes. Parents ask children what they want to do with their lives. Boys answer honestly. Girls make up a bull**** story and rarely take steps in that direction. All that is forgotten after a while or it changes into some new goal when they find out how much work is involved. From the other perspective, girls are thinking ahead about having families long before boys do. It is fortunate for the human race that girls do think about boys, marriage, and children, because most boys do not. It is equally fortunate that boys are more logical and good at doing things, or else we'd still be living in caves. This orientation does preclude some ability, or else we'd see comparable skill levels per capita. Don't go blaming men for not teaching women, when in fact men try quite hard to do so, but often do not find receptive minds. Recently I tried to teach a young lady of 19. She would acknowledge I was right about a topic--she was bing pushed around by some boys, but steadfastly refused to confront them. Close-mindedness is a common trait in females. I could give you a hundred examples. At the same time females are more easy going and less likely to remain angry after a conflict. Every trait has a positve and negative aspect. The negative aspect are more obvious, and clues pointing to the important positive aspects. Mature married women are excellent sailing students and in general they are better students than the men. Most married women pay closer attention, and actually study the topic of sailing, more so than their husbands who tend to play it by ear. I find married women are far better at knots than men who rarely open a book or practice at home. I think this is because these women have what they want--a man, and want to keep him alive, so their interest in sailing has a serious side. If a grown woman can't learn how to tie a knot, I submit it may be one of three things: 1 A serious self-esteem problem. 2. A lifetime dependence on men which leads to a total lack of decision making ability, with an associated "helper" aspect. 3. A mental problem with either memory, logic, or both which makes complex analysis difficult or impossible. Sailing would be beneficial for women in the first two categories but it is unlikely they will be able to perform capably as a skipper in an emergency situation. The highest competence level in most skills leadership must be developed. My experience is women generally freak-out in an emergency, perhaps to let the man know he "has" to take charge. While women make fabulous as crew, should we then force leadership on them? Or should instructors encourage them to be good crew instead, and skippers when they have the ability? Bart katysails wrote the rare woman can perform expertly at such tasks but that's the exception Bull pucky....yes, women do lag behind men in these areas, but it is because those areas are not stressed as being important in their younger lives....there is no reason on earth why tying a knot or running rigging would be a difficult task for MOST women if shown how....yes, there are inherent genetic dispositions that are different for men and women, but these differences are not that far apart and certainly don't preclude some ability...blanket generalizations sometimes indicate a bigoted attitude.... |
Teaching question
Bart, you are one sad, poor man....
It is plain that learning is less important to girls, while boys pay attention and learn. Bull**** Young girls are emotional and spend all their time thinking about boys, cloths, getting married, and children. Bull**** girls don't pay attention and rarely have career goals when they are young. more bull**** ....and the rest is just more and more of the same crap...... You hang around with very strange women if that's the impression you have of them....the women I know are directed, goal oriented people with carefully planned out careers...they have climbed up the ladder to the positions they hold... Unfortunately, Heinlein's little quip isn't really a truism....Many women do not do as they please...they try to please men....they have been taught culturally that that is the way to succeed...those are the women you speak of...women who have been trained by men to act that way....Stepford Women....So don't complain about the monsters that you have made...(for examples, just read some of Horvath's posts regarding women...) -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 6/27/2004 |
Teaching question
I would say that of the kids we teach, the girls
tend to learn more quickly, but do have a tendency to be less interested in racing. S. "katysails" wrote in message ... : Bart, you are one sad, poor man.... : : It is plain : that learning is less important to girls, while boys pay : attention and learn. : : Bull**** : : Young girls are emotional and spend all their time thinking : about boys, cloths, getting married, and children. : : Bull**** : : girls don't pay attention and rarely : have career goals when they are young. : : more bull**** : : ...and the rest is just more and more of the same crap...... : : You hang around with very strange women if that's the impression you have of : them....the women I know are directed, goal oriented people with carefully : planned out careers...they have climbed up the ladder to the positions they : hold... : : Unfortunately, Heinlein's little quip isn't really a truism....Many women do : not do as they please...they try to please men....they have been taught : culturally that that is the way to succeed...those are the women you speak : of...women who have been trained by men to act that way....Stepford : Women....So don't complain about the monsters that you have made...(for : examples, just read some of Horvath's posts regarding women...) : : : : : -- : katysails : s/v Chanteuse : Kirie Elite 32 : http://katysails.tripod.com : : "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax : and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein : : : : --- : Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. : Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). : Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 6/27/2004 : : |
Teaching question
I don't find any gender based differences in the learning curves of the kids
that sail on Overproof. They all seem to be eager to learn and enjoy the responsibilities that come with knowledge gained. Some kids are quicker studies in some aspects but it generally levels itself out. I can't say I have seen much difference between adult men and women in regards to learning to sail either... except maybe that some are quicker studies than others. Nothing gender based though. I've never had a problem aboard since I never raise my voice to crew unless it's due to prevention of a dangerous situation... and never in anger. I always explain things and expect input from the crew at all times. CM "Pony Express" wrote in message k.net... | I would say that of the kids we teach, the girls | tend to learn more quickly, but do have a tendency | to be less interested in racing. | S. | | "katysails" wrote in | message ... | : Bart, you are one sad, poor man.... | : | : It is plain | : that learning is less important to girls, while | boys pay | : attention and learn. | : | : Bull**** | : | : Young girls are emotional and spend all their | time thinking | : about boys, cloths, getting married, and | children. | : | : Bull**** | : | : girls don't pay attention and rarely | : have career goals when they are young. | : | : more bull**** | : | : ...and the rest is just more and more of the | same crap...... | : | : You hang around with very strange women if | that's the impression you have of | : them....the women I know are directed, goal | oriented people with carefully | : planned out careers...they have climbed up the | ladder to the positions they | : hold... | : | : Unfortunately, Heinlein's little quip isn't | really a truism....Many women do | : not do as they please...they try to please | men....they have been taught | : culturally that that is the way to | succeed...those are the women you speak | : of...women who have been trained by men to act | that way....Stepford | : Women....So don't complain about the monsters | that you have made...(for | : examples, just read some of Horvath's posts | regarding women...) | : | : | : | : | : -- | : katysails | : s/v Chanteuse | : Kirie Elite 32 | : http://katysails.tripod.com | : | : "Women and cats will do as they please, and | men and dogs should relax | : and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein | : | : | : | : --- | : Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. | : Checked by AVG anti-virus system | (http://www.grisoft.com). | : Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release | Date: 6/27/2004 | : | : | |
Teaching question
The only major difference I've seen is that men tend to believe that
they can do things with muscle power that should be done with leverage or a winch. Whereas women understand that they don't have the upper body physical strength to do something, so they tend to use a winch, etc. if they're so instructed. Men tend to ignore this the first few times. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ... I don't find any gender based differences in the learning curves of the kids that sail on Overproof. They all seem to be eager to learn and enjoy the responsibilities that come with knowledge gained. Some kids are quicker studies in some aspects but it generally levels itself out. I can't say I have seen much difference between adult men and women in regards to learning to sail either... except maybe that some are quicker studies than others. Nothing gender based though. I've never had a problem aboard since I never raise my voice to crew unless it's due to prevention of a dangerous situation... and never in anger. I always explain things and expect input from the crew at all times. CM "Pony Express" wrote in message k.net... | I would say that of the kids we teach, the girls | tend to learn more quickly, but do have a tendency | to be less interested in racing. | S. | | "katysails" wrote in | message ... | : Bart, you are one sad, poor man.... | : | : It is plain | : that learning is less important to girls, while | boys pay | : attention and learn. | : | : Bull**** | : | : Young girls are emotional and spend all their | time thinking | : about boys, cloths, getting married, and | children. | : | : Bull**** | : | : girls don't pay attention and rarely | : have career goals when they are young. | : | : more bull**** | : | : ...and the rest is just more and more of the | same crap...... | : | : You hang around with very strange women if | that's the impression you have of | : them....the women I know are directed, goal | oriented people with carefully | : planned out careers...they have climbed up the | ladder to the positions they | : hold... | : | : Unfortunately, Heinlein's little quip isn't | really a truism....Many women do | : not do as they please...they try to please | men....they have been taught | : culturally that that is the way to | succeed...those are the women you speak | : of...women who have been trained by men to act | that way....Stepford | : Women....So don't complain about the monsters | that you have made...(for | : examples, just read some of Horvath's posts | regarding women...) | : | : | : | : | : -- | : katysails | : s/v Chanteuse | : Kirie Elite 32 | : http://katysails.tripod.com | : | : "Women and cats will do as they please, and | men and dogs should relax | : and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein | : | : | : | : --- | : Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. | : Checked by AVG anti-virus system | (http://www.grisoft.com). | : Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release | Date: 6/27/2004 | : | : | |
Teaching question
katysails wrote Bart, you are one sad, poor man.... It is plain that learning is less important to girls, while boys pay attention and learn. Bull**** Think back to when you were a teenager katy. I've been able to get boys to study when they were not focused, but girls give up quit, and run away to talk with their girl friends. Send them to their room and they are on the phone or in a chat room. Disconnecting the phone and internet just made them more ingenious at sneaking out, using borrowed cell phones, or pouring on the tears until someone else gives in to them. Young girls are emotional and spend all their time thinking about boys, cloths, getting married, and children. Bull**** This is what teenage girls tell me. I've seen it. It is not bull**** in the majority of the cases. . girls don't pay attention and rarely have career goals when they are young. more bull**** That my impression too. When I ask them what their career goals are they often chose lofty goals, and take no steps in that directions. When I try to mentor them and tell them what the need to do to work towards that goals they ignore they alwasy lose interest. They like the idea of having a lofty goal, but don't care to put much effort into persuing it--until they get older. ...and the rest is just more and more of the same crap...... You hang around with very strange women if that's the impression you have of them....the women I know are directed, goal oriented people with carefully planned out careers...they have climbed up the ladder to the positions they hold... I have to agree with you. Many of the women I meet are very strange. It is clear to me that age is the key factor in determining the maturity of a woman. Often it is not until around age 30-40 that they begin to rely on their brains instead of their bodies Many women tend to lack trust, be anxious, and overreact. The nicest type of woman is the helper type. They are real team players as long as they get what they want. These can be generous, caring and nurturing and display enormous empathy. In most cases women have agendas that are visible to men, but invisible to themselves. Often they are manipulative--a skill perfected in childhood they rarely grow out of. Often they don't comprehend how transparent their games are, because men give them room to hang themselves. Many times women have fear of abandonment issues because of their parents broken marriages. I've met a number of women who continually tested me, by acting crazy, just to see if I'll leave them. Passing the test only means a new harder test in a couple of weeks--because they are convinced men always leave their women. Finally it reaches a point where you have the choice of physical abuse or leaving--I chose the latter. Or if you spot this characteristic early you can leave the relationship before being tortured too long. These sorts of women like underdog causes but winning is not important, it is the struggle they enjoy. Many women I meet can't complete things. They start something take it 90% of the way and then stop and move on to something else. A man can tell a woman straight out what is important to him and what is not, and women will most often agree with everything he says, but in reality ignore it, and work towards changing his views to hers. They figure that "Love" will change his mind, or hope to get married and force the change. mind later. The most common tpe of woman I meet is the impulsivesocialite sophisticate. Underneath that is a woman who is extremely selfish and ready to drop her friends and plans if something else more engaging comes also. Unfortunately, Heinlein's little quip isn't really a truism....Many women do not do as they please...they try to please men....they have been taught culturally that that is the way to succeed...those are the women you speak of...women who have been trained by men to act that way....Stepford Women....So don't complain about the monsters that you have made...(for examples, just read some of Horvath's posts regarding women...) That is exactly my point. When they do as they please they are focused on boys. Meanwhile the boys aren't interested at that age. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 6/27/2004 |
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