"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Donal" wrote in message

You seem to posesss a remarkable ability to discount the death of Iraqi
"humans".

This seems to be at issue here, so I'll address this rather than each line
you posted.

First, I place human life above all other forms of life in this universe.
That applies to any human life, including that of terrorists. I find it
abhorent that anyone must die over political or religious issues. But I'm
a
realist. People have died and continue to die for reasons of conceptual
dispute. In a perfect world this would not happen. But this is not a
perfect world. Far from it.

Second, one of my closest friends is the daughter of an Iraqi engineer
personally executed by Saddam just prior to Desert Storm in '91. My
friend
has (had?) an extensive family living in three locations in Iraq. She has
been unable to contact all but three of them since May of last year. I've
met several of her relatives, and found them to be intelligent, kind, and
friendly people. All of her relatives wanted Saddam toppled and the
Ba'athists out of power at any cost. I'm not sure that they meant at the
cost of their lives, but that may have been the price. Only time will
tell,
and until my friend knows the disposition of her family members she
grieves
and all of her friends empathize. Including me.

Third, I was opposed to Bush's rush to attack Saddam's regime. I wanted
the
UN inspection team to have more time. But he didn't consult me.
Subsequently Saddam is gone, and Iraq is generally better off for it. But
the people of Iraq have suffered through a war that killed many of them,
and
continues to plague them with terrorist activity. Today a number of them
died while simply waiting in line in hopes of getting jobs. How
meaningless
and intolerable.

Fourth, I support our presence in Iraq. We have no choice now. We cut
and
ran from Afghanistan years ago and left the innocent citizens at the mercy
(or lack thereof) of the Taliban, a Muslim fundamentalist faction that
places the rights of women alongside those of insects and dogs. We are
staying in Afghanistan, and we'll stay in Iraq. It's the right thing to
do
now, regardless of the propriety of going into either country in the first
place. To cut and run from Iraq or Afghanistan now would leave the
innocents prey to Muslim extremists and plunge both countries into ruling
religious oligarchies. Read: worse than Saddam's Iraq, if that's
possible.

Fifth, I grieve for those who lost their lives in the attacks on this
country on 9/11. I also grieve for those who've lost service men in Iraq,
Afghanistan, and anywhere else soldiers from ANYcountry happen to be in
harm's way.

Sixth, I choose to believe (perhaps hope is a better term) that al qaeda
has
been redirected from its prime target, and subsequently made less
effective
(weakened), by our movement against Iraq, our improvements in homeland
security, and our resolve to never let them attack us again, ala 9/11.

Now, do you honestly believe I discount the deaths of Iraqi humans? Or
any
humans?

No, I don't.

I agree with most of what you have written. However, I still feel that you
think that an Iraqi life is insignificant when compared to an American life.

How many Iraqi civilians have died since the invasion? How many do you
think have been killed by US forces??


When you compare your answers with the toll of 9/11, you should understand
my point of view. In fact, I am even more dispassionate than my posts
would suggest. My real concern is for the future of my children. I feel
that the West is playing into the hands of Bin Laden. He wants a global
conflict.


Regards


Donal
--

"Donal" wrote in message

"Maxprop" wrote in message

Now, do you honestly believe I discount the deaths of Iraqi humans? Or
any
humans?

No, I don't.

I agree with most of what you have written. However, I still feel that
you
think that an Iraqi life is insignificant when compared to an American
life.

I disagree. I think "insignificant" is inappropriate. I believe it is
natural for any citizen to experience a stronger visceral reaction over the
deaths of countrymen than those of people living somewhere on the other side
of the globe. That is probably human nature. Something tells me that 3000
people murdered in Belfast (or wherever you reside) would have a greater
impact upon you than that same number in Iraq. But I don't consider any
life "insignificant."


How many Iraqi civilians have died since the invasion? How many do you
think have been killed by US forces??

The reports vary so widely that I'd rather not quote inaccurate numbers. I
know a lot of Iraqis have been killed by US forces, bombs, etc. A lot have
been killed by other coalition forces, and a lot have been murdered by
insurgents, not all of whom are al qaeda. As I mentioned before, wars
result in the deaths of innocent people. The USA lost nearly 58,000 service
people during the Vietnam War. I've never seen figures, but I'm guessing
that both N. and S. Vietnam lost ten times that many innocent civilians.
There is a parallel between this conflict and Vietnam: in both cases the
combatants were indistinguishable from the innocents. That always results
in greater casualties among the innocent.


When you compare your answers with the toll of 9/11, you should understand
my point of view. In fact, I am even more dispassionate than my posts
would suggest. My real concern is for the future of my children. I feel
that the West is playing into the hands of Bin Laden. He wants a global
conflict.

You and I are in agreement on this last point. Your kids and my
grandchildren will pay the price for bad decisions made by our two
generations.

Max